Laburnucopia

[fuzzyturns]

I suppose every turner has to do at least one piece with some driftwood or bog wood. Here's my take.
The longer piece has a wall thickness of about 2mm, the other one about 4mm. The bogwood was a leftover from my stepson's fishtank (he's given up on that hobby a few years ago, but I kept the pieces around)

As usual, all C&C welcome.

[GBF]

Too much like Pete and Tony's for me.
If you copy other turners work credit them.

Regards George

[John D Smith]

   Sound advice George I think it is only courteous to acknowledge your source.

                                        Regards John
 

[fuzzyturns]

Gentlemen, I do credit people where such credit is due. And in this case: would it help if I explained to you that

• The wider of the two shapes sat in my workshop for several months on its own
• The longer of the two shapes sat as a raw turned piece on a bookshelf for months on its own
• Neither of them are amphoras (whereas both Pete's and Tony's pieces are both amphoras)

I have absolutely no intention to copy other people's work, and every intention to credit wherever I do copy them or take inspiration from them. So to Pete and Tony: if you feel I have copied you, my fullest apologies, it never crossed my mind that it might be construed this way.

[woodndesign]

Wolfgang,  All credit to you on a stunning piece, should say pieces as you've put the singular forms together, the driftwood works perfectly and cradles everything so well.

Cheers for sharing.  David

[GBF]

Returning to this piece and trying to be constructive to me the whole thing looks unbalanced and I think it is the right hand vessel. The angle it is lying at seems to bear no relation to the other one it also is not a consistent shape it has a strange bulge about two thirds down and the runs off too sharply to the point. The flow is badly broken on the piece I think if it was the same as the other one and not at the extreme angle it would look better.
Just my opinion of course.

Regards George

[Graham]

I like them, though I would agree about the shape of the one on the right.
The difference in angle ( to me ) seems irrelevant, these type of things are ( I assume, maybe wrongly ) meant to represent salvage so would not fall at identical angles. Had you actually meant them to be a pair ?

Copying / inspiration / etc is a whole other subject. Is there such a thing as an original idea anymore ? Who inspired the person that inspired you ? How far back do you credit ?

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

fuzzy apart from the shape of the right hand piece they look well turned and finished to my eye. I agree that they look similar to Pete and Tony's work but then we all make bowls or spindles that look similar to other peoples' work all the time. As long as it is not a direct copy I cannot see a problem as I class this as idea development. However, in order to stifle the comments about copying I personally would not have placed the pieces as you have. Drill out the bogwood to take ,what looks to me, two howitzer shells embedded in part of a tree. Copper leaf a part of each one and make it look as though the tree has grown around them. you could carve wood to look like a piece of shrapnel and stick that somewhere too.(In the nicest possible way )
With a bit of re-working and with the anniversary of the 2 wars so fresh in our minds this could become a very emotive piece.

[jason@woodturning.expert]

MMMMMmmm, Interesting!
I think we're being a bit hard on Wolfgang here. He's been turning for about 18 months, it is only to be expected that his turning will be influenced by other people, wether it was intentional influence or not.
I think thats a really stunning Idea from John B-Aitken! and I would advise you Fuzzy to rework the piece as stated unless you particularly love it like it is. At the end of the day it is your work. PS for 18 months you are doing bloody well!!! - keep it up!!!

On an OBJECTIVE level (NOT pertaining to anyone personally in any way):
I don't think I agree with ALWAYS crediting work - there has been a huge amount written on american sites over the last year on this, basically;

1. if everyone can see the influence in the piece (for example everyone who looks at it instantly knows that a "Drozda style finial" has been influenced by Drozda) then there is no point in siting the influence - Cindy herself says this. (her style has become part of mainstream woodturning).

2. If a work is
a) so poor as to not be close to the original artist's work.
b) so good that the work has gone beyond the original artist and has taken on a life of it's own, then I would argue the original artist need not be cited.

3. To cite every influence would end up being silly, again as Cindy said recently (and she put it rather well) - if she cited every turner that influenced her, then there would be a list of dozens of people after every piece she made.

There are of course times when it is right to cite people  for example the terrible Douglas Fisher copying business (although that was outright copying rather than influence). To use a personal example I recently did a finial without realising that it was the signature finial of Scott Hackler, he has kindly allowed me to carry on using the design with his blessing but asked that I cite him - as there are so few people doing his finial, my work could be mistaken for his. That is a situation where it is important and right to cite other's work.

It is easy to forget that when we start out turning; we learn by copying others work (I did - and sometimes still do, to understand a technique). We then go on (if we work hard) to develop our own turning style which can take many years or decades even! some people never do find their own voice.
I am often amused by the turner that said " The Chinese have been copying my shapes for centuries!"

I would urge you all to view the following video - I have found it to be fascinating - in fact I would go so far as to say it has changed my life as an artist!

http://tedxtalks.ted.com/video/TEDxKC-Austin-Kleon-Steal-Like

regards Jason

[Mark Sanger]

Hi Wolfgand

I don't want to go over old ground in any depth as this subject has taken hundreds of hours of my time in the past with little positive outcome. Just to say Jason I concur with what you have said and the Austin Kloen video is brill, I have his book and it is well worth others getting it it gets you really thinking. TED is a fantastic site and one I spend hours learning from.

In relation to your piece, I like it but do feel that just one form on the base would work better as for me there is a bit too much going on and my preference if less is more. Having been able to view your work at the seminar it is of a high quality, keep at it and thank you for sharing.

[bodrighywood]

If someone sees something in anything I do that influences them then I personally am flattered. If however I wish to deliberately copy someones style I have asked first. Very few people say no. There is rarely if ever true originality though we may not know who or what the original influence is. I do however get very annoyed when (as happened at a regular show I do) one turner sees something that you make then blatantly copies it becuse it sells well. Looking at this piece I can see why it is perhaps seen as a copy of Georg and my work as we both do similar forms and have them on all sorts of bases. Neither of us are fixed in doing amphorae (just one series I have done lately) so it could perhaps have been seen as ours. Personally I don't mind as long as I am asked if someone deliberately wants to have a go at something that I am recognised for. This piece by the way has far too few splits, holes and bits missing to be mine LOL.

pete

[fuzzyturns]

Firstly, many thanks to all who took the time to write a response. It's all good input for me.

There isn't really any particular statement behind this piece, I just love the swirly grain on the laburnum pieces. Yes, the longer one has a bit of an odd shape. Yes, there are probably ways to play around with the placement. I quite like John's idea of a piece reminding us of the terrors of war, but
a) that's John's idea and not mine and
b) that's not what I set out for and
c) the copper would cover up all the lovely grain.
In addition, I am always a little conscious of being German (yes, we did bomb the chippies), and we Germans tend to reminisce the war times a lot less. I always feel that this is not an easy subject for me.

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

Aah! fuzzy, sorry ! I feel a bit like John Cleese now (don't mention the war and all that). Seriously though I am sorry firstly for not knowing you are German (which really makes no difference to me at all) but secondly and probably more importantly for suggesting that you should do something different than what you have done. You are quite right, this is your piece and it should be your interpretation of what it is, will be or could be.
   I quite like the fact that you have reused a piece of wood from the fish tank.
(PS. I can give you the co-ordinates of some awful chippies should the situation arise again)

[fuzzyturns]

John: no reason to feel sorry. As said, I do like your idea. And I do post pieces here to get feedback, controversial or not. In fact, I believe the controversial feedback is probably worth more, because it starts conversations and debates and thinking.

I am afraid I won't be taking you up on the offer of more chippie coordinates, I hold with John Lennon ("Imagine it's war and nobody goes") and Isaac Asimov ("Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent").

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

 Isaac Asimov ("Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent")
Like that.
Thumbs up.