Author Topic: Salt and pepper grinders  (Read 6049 times)

Offline john taylor

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Salt and pepper grinders
« on: April 24, 2015, 06:16:57 PM »
After a very interesting conversation I had with two other turners a question.   Do you make salt and pepper grinders and/or shakers and if so what wood do you use and do you seal the inside of them and if so how?

john

Offline Bryan Milham

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Re: Salt and pepper grinders
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2015, 06:33:33 PM »
Yes, I make them, well I make grinders with a ceramic mechanism so they can be used for either, not Salt & Pepper specifically.

My preference is English oak and no I don't seal the inside, just leave the raw wood.

I've peeked inside the wooden ones you can buy, they don't seem to have a finish, and I can rarely recognise the cheap woods used, so I'm happy to leave mine like that.
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Offline malcy

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Re: Salt and pepper grinders
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2015, 10:07:33 PM »
I have made a number of the 12 inch variety using various woods to make patterns  with the knob matching the body. I use mainly maple or sycamore for the main body wood and the inside is just smoothed/sanded with no finish applied. I also use the ceramic mechanisms for these. Hope this helps. Malcolm.

Offline Les Symonds

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Re: Salt and pepper grinders
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2015, 08:21:21 AM »
I don't (as yet) make them, just as I tend to avoid making anything that is dependent upon pre-manufactured parts. The reason is nothing to do with any ideals of wanting to make the whole thing, from start to finish, but a desire to avoid any sort of turning that forces me to work to dimensions dictated by components. For now, I'm having far too much fun with free expression to be constrained by such issues. I have no doubt that pressure from customers at the shop will soon dictate that I make such items, and I'm sure that I'll have to give-in eventually, but for now I'll play with free shapes for just as long as I can.
Les
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Offline woodndesign

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Re: Salt and pepper grinders
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2015, 12:17:51 PM »
At Yandles, Keith Fenton, who was making mills, he was not govern by measuring the length of the mill, only just drilling and cutting the recess, and these tools where marked with the dimensions. It is easier if you setup (as with anything) a lot in batches, once done the job is easier than one offs or this case a pair .. been there.

He recommended to buy the long shafted crushgrind mechanisms, he gets them from Constablewoodcrafts (http://www.constablewoodcrafts.co.uk/mill_mechanisms.htm) depending on how many you intended to make they offer a discount.  These are available form other outlets too.

The brown oak he was using was some of the most stunning had seen to date.

Cheers  David
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Offline Paul Hannaby

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Re: Salt and pepper grinders
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2015, 07:54:51 PM »
That brown oak came from my wood pile. I still have plenty of it!  ;D

Offline john taylor

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Re: Salt and pepper grinders
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2015, 06:49:09 PM »
Thank you all for your replies and sorry for the delay in replying things have been a bit mad lately.

It was about one persons view of H&S.   Like the replies I use known safe food woods and leave the insides unsealed, however in this conversation one of the turners was, for want of a better word, ranting about H&S and how we are endangering the public by not sealing the wood.   His view was that wood was not food safe and should have a food safe coating on it before it comes into contact with any food, he also included chopping boards in that cattergorie. 
He did explain that he knew what he was talking about because before he retired he was a H&S officer for a council and had been for years so he knew what he was talking about, he did admit that he wasnt a member of any H&S recognised body and didnt need to be because all the H&S officers on the council were trained by another officer who was an expert in H&S.


john

Offline Bryan Milham

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Re: Salt and pepper grinders
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2015, 07:09:34 PM »
Oak barrels are not sealed. But I bet he still drinks the Brandy, Whisky (or Whiskey) or wine/port/sherry that is matured in them!

There is a very good article on the food safetyness (is that a word) of wood. I'll try find it and post the link, unless someone beats me to it.
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Offline Bryan Milham

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Re: Salt and pepper grinders
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2015, 07:45:40 PM »
I cannot find the original article, it was a reprint from the New York Times I coped at the time of seeing. The article is a little old now (22 years) but worth reading. I make no claims of the truth or if these findings have been subsequently disproved, but the NYT have a history of ensuring their stories are accurate.

Read and discuss.

23 FEBRUARY 1993 reprinted from New York Times

TIMBER CUTTING BOARDS HAVE THE WOOD ON PLASTIC

EVERY now and then a scientific finding flies in the face of conventional wisdom. And so it was with an accidental discovery By microbiologists at an American university that wooden cutting boards kill food-poisoning bacteria that survive very nicely on the plastic boards that have been widely promoted for years as safer than wood.

Scientists from the University of Wisconsin’s Food Research Institute stumbled upon the finding while seeking ways to decontaminate wooden boards and make them as “safe” as plastic.

Much to their surprise, they found that when boards were purposely contaminated with organisms such as salmonella, listeria and Escherichia coli that are common causes of food poisoning, 99.9 per cent of the bacteria died off within three minutes on the wooden boards, while none died on the plastic ones.

When contaminated boards were left unwashed overnight at room temperature, bacterial counts increased on the plastic, but none of the organisms could be recovered from the wooden boards the next morning.

It had long been believed that disease-causing bacteria from raw foods such as chicken would soak into a wooden board and be difficult to remove, even when washed; then when . other foods, such as salad ingredients that are eaten raw, are cut on the same board, the dangerous bacteria could be picked up by them and transferred alive to the consumer. Plastic was assumed to be safer because it is nonporous and contaminating organisms could be readily washed off.

Based on the new studies, scientist Dr Dean Cliver said: “Wood may be preferable in that small lapses in sanitary practices are not as dangerous on wood as on plastic.”

But he cautioned against being “sloppy about safety” and warned cooks to be sure to wash off cutting surfaces after cutting meat, chicken or, fish, whether the surface used is wood - or plastic

The researchers tested boards made from seven different species of trees and four types of plastic and found similar results: wood was safer than plastic, regardless of the materials used.

Thus far, however, the researchers have been unable to isolate the agents in wood that make it so inhospitable to Bacteria.

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Offline seventhdevil

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Re: Salt and pepper grinders
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2015, 08:03:20 PM »
good article bryan.

i'm stunned that they want to find the reason for the bacteria dying off assuming they want to transfer it to plastic board.

why not just use wooden ones all day long, like we have for centuries...

Offline Graham

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Re: Salt and pepper grinders
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2015, 06:15:31 AM »
why not just use wooden ones all day long, like we have for centuries...
Oh, come on.
that would involve a level of common sense that is far from common.
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Offline The Bowler Hatted Turner

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Re: Salt and pepper grinders
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2015, 09:22:50 AM »
Oak barrels are not sealed. But I bet he still drinks the Brandy, Whisky (or Whiskey) or wine/port/sherry that is matured in them!

There is a very good article on the food safetyness (is that a word) of wood. I'll try find it and post the link, unless someone beats me to it.
Bryan when they "fire" the insides of the barrels is this not some form of sealing?

I have to admit that this is one of my pet hates, seeing food being served on boards that are unsuitable for food use. Some timbers are what I term dirty woods, Elm and some types of Oak, if Yew is poisonous why use it to serve food on?
On the other hand I have a Pine chopping board that I made over 30 years ago and it is used for ALL foodstuffs and I cannot remember any of my family having food poisoning.
Regarding the salt and pepper mills, I think common sense would dictate the removal of all the wood dust made during manufacture, I also would not think that salt or pepper would react with any timbers to make them dangerous , I could be wrong in which case I accept no responsibility for these comments. ;D ;D ;D

Offline Bryan Milham

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Re: Salt and pepper grinders
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2015, 11:24:43 AM »
John,

not fully understanding the Coopers Art, I can't say why they fire the inside of the barrels (anyone).

My assumption is you are correct.

I can't see fire sealing the joints but I do know fire hardens wood, so I always thought it was to harden the timber staves to act as a method of preventing/reducing the absorption of the contained liquid (tall ships had water barrels, then there are beer barrels etc., which are unfired) into the timber.

But fired or otherwise, it's still timber to liquid contact.
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Offline seventhdevil

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Re: Salt and pepper grinders
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2015, 12:27:17 PM »
i believe the fire is to help flavour the wine or brandy. in theory it will also kill any bacteria living on the surface.

Offline bodrighywood

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Re: Salt and pepper grinders
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2015, 03:42:21 PM »
The firing both helps release some of the flavour and also seals the wood. They are then soaked in water for a while so that they swell and seal the joints. Saw a documentary on it a couple of weeks ago.

Pete
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