A bit of controversy

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

I recently received my copy of Revolutions and as always it is well produced and full of interesting articles. However,I take issue with Mike Mansfield's article. Although I am in no doubt that Mike has written this piece for all the best reasons it will do nothing towards helping clubs attract new committee members and probably will not help in the recruitment of new trustees to the AWGB.
Is it not time now for the AWGB to seek proper legal advice about the risk to those of us that offer ourselves up to the thankless task of committee membership? Unless I am missing something this article in my opinion will only serve to unnerve existing committee members and deter others from stepping up. So come on AWGB let's get this sorted once and for all.

[Paul Hannaby]

John,
It has always been the case (and common knowledge) that any committee member of an association (aka unincorporated organisation) would be financially liable for any debts incurred by the association. I don't think seeking yet more legal advice will change this. This was the primary reason the AWGB became a limited company - to limit the liability of all members (including committee members) to the sum of £1.

Also worth noting is that becoming a charity or CIO does not absolve the trustees of that organisation from personal financial liability if the charity commission decide they have misused the funds so that route isn't the silver bullet it is portrayed to be.

Personally I don't have a problem being a club committee member because I know exactly what the club liabilities are and what it's assets are. That's how such organisations should be run - no need for excessive bureaucracy or complications!

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

So from what you have said Paul if there is a problem at one club (and I hasten to add there is no problem at my club)but if there were and the club committee ended up being sued for whatever reason would the AWGB pick up the bill and safeguard my house?

[Bill21]

So from what you have said Paul if there is a problem at one club (and I hasten to add there is no problem at my club)but if there were and the club committee ended up being sued for whatever reason would the AWGB pick up the bill and safeguard my house?

Yes, I’d like to know the answer to that.

[Bill21]

Is it possible to read this article online? My club receives some copies of the magazine but I don’t always see one.

[John D Smith]

 Hi Bill 21,
              If all your members were AWGB Members they would get a paper copy or a electronic copy every three Months

                                                      Regards John Smith
 Bill further to the above if you go into the AWGB web site front page click on heading read then scroll down to Revolutions Archive and you can see copies of Revolutions.   
 Sorry bill I have just looked at this and I dont think it is up to Date but you can contact the Secretary and get an Electronic copy of every future copy sent to you.

[John Peachey]

Hi John,

The Archive should be twelve months behind, so that the newsletter remains a benefit for the members. Saying that it does look as though the 2021 files are missing, will put that on the to do list.

Please don't email the secretary, as he has nothing to do with Revs distribution - please email the datamanager (me) and I will sort out. Please be aware the file is large.

John Peachey

[Bill21]

It’s club night in a few days, I’ll see if I can get a copy of the magazine.

[Paul Hannaby]

So from what you have said Paul if there is a problem at one club (and I hasten to add there is no problem at my club)but if there were and the club committee ended up being sued for whatever reason would the AWGB pick up the bill and safeguard my house?

No, nothing I have said infers that the AWGB offers any protection to club officers and I don't speak on behalf of the AWGB - just my opinion of how it works. Each club is a separate legal entity and its committee is responsible for it's own affairs.

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

So why has this controversial subject been raised again in Revolutions, all it will do is serve to worry serving and potential committee members. I still think this needs to be sorted once and for all. We must have some members with legal qualifications that can clarify it.

[John D Smith]

 I agree with John (BHT) this needs to be clarified it is difficult to get Committee Members as it is if they read this it will be even more difficult I find it very strange that this article was published in Revolutions  I know every Club who has the Insurance with Zurich get the policy but as everyone knows reading these policies is like a minefield I know the AWGB do not advise on Insurance but this Article was written by The Treasurer of the AWGB so is that not Advice John (BHT) is absolutely right it needs
to be sorted once an for all.
                                   Regards John Smith

[Paul Hannaby]

The insurance is public liability. What exactly are you wanting to insure against separately?

I think the situation is perfectly clear and the advice already given makes it clear.

[Twisted Trees]

These things go in circles, same in the bike club, table tennis club and every other organisation out there where all of a sudden public liability insurance gets questioned, members are threatened with being liable for unknown risks, and out of fear they pay more for more insurance that is completely useless as it covers you for things  that are completely unimaginable, while in reality covering you for almost nothing.

When I see a credible threat, that will be attributed as the liability of the club and therefore it's members I will question first should we be doing it, second do I want to be involved in an organisation that is doing it, and finally do we have insurance cover on existing policies.

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

The insurance is public liability. What exactly are you wanting to insure against separately?

I think the situation is perfectly clear and the advice already given makes it clear.

Paul I quote from the article at the bottom of the column on page 26 of Revs" However this may not always provide adequate cover for the trustees whose personal wealth, including their homes, can be at risk". I fully understand that the risk to the AWGB as a whole is limited to £1 per person, indeed I was a trustee at the time it was announced. If the AWGB as an organisation is claimed against my personal liability will be £1.Fine. But now this article has started to scaremonger by telling us that clubs should now look to take on extra insurance. If I remember correctly there was an article similar to this a while back, that too was extolling the virtues of clubs becoming charities or companies. I wish to know that if my club does not wish to become a charity or a company are we then at greater risk than clubs that do?

[Paul Hannaby]

Associations with committees don't have trustees, charities do.

As I pointed out before, the limit of liability for the AWGB is because it is a company limited by guarantee. It has absolutely nothing to do with it being a charity.

The short answer to your question is probably yes but neither type of organisation is without risk so I would say the risk should be minimised by those running the organisation. i.e. it's committee members / trustees as they are the ones who would be liable for any loss.