How much is it worth?

[bodrighywood]

This is a general query perhaps more aimed at the pros on here. We are beginning to sort out shows for the year and experience has taught us that the small, village hall shows are only any good for us if we have a cheaper range of stock e.g. sub £20. My query is what sort of price should the more artistic work be for the larger multi day shows we have started doing. I am useless at seeing the value of my own work. I can work out the usual cost of materials, time taken etc and coming to a costing but what do others think of the perceived value? I know this is a really difficult question to answer but I have a gut feeling that, within reason, a sensible higher price could be the way to go with some of my work. Selling a couple of pieces at a higher price rather than trying to sell a lot at a cheaper price. How do others feel about this? I am not asking for anyone to put a value on my work just how they feel about perceived value in the eyes of Joe Public. Part of my thinking is based on a number of comments I have had at a shows about things being cheap for what they are.

Hope this makes sense LOL.

Pete

[Philip Green]

Hello Pete

I am not a pro but I am fortunate enough to a pro at one of the clubs I belong from whom I have been able to learn during several shows that we have both attended. My method of pricing is basically to look at what more experienced club members (who have also learned from the club pro) are charging for similar work. If I am not sure, I can always ask him for advice.

Firstly, it is unlikely to be possible to predict what will sell. Sometimes, it is all small stuff and sometimes it is all big stuff so a range of work is advisable.

Secondly, it is good to have a crowd puller; something big and showy to attract the punters to your display even if it carries a high price and never sells.

Thirdly, I have seen some good turners who display multiple copies of the same type of work. For instance, at one of the Christmas shows around here, about eight big chunky ear ring stands were on display. I would have left over half of them in the box under the table ready to display should I make a sale.

A friend of mine who is also useless at pricing his own work has to be encouraged to raise the price of his very good quality work. More often than not, this results in a sale. Another friend used to do a monthly craft market and one day somebody advised him to raise his prices. He did so and from then on, his sales were a good bit higher. Pricing too low is just as bad as pricing too high. I have heard of an ex-member of one of my clubs who used to sell work at less than cost.

Joe Public is accustomed to going to a market and if something is cheap, they expect it to be rubbish. The same goes for our work. If it is too cheap, he thinks it is rubbish.

Using the materials, time taken and other costs approach works up to a point. What might take me four hours to produce may only take an hour by a pro. Putting the real time into the equation and I would probably charge too much. There is a subjective element that cannot always be accounted for in a formula and that is the material. Joe Public may be happy to pay a higher price for work made from a particularly attractive piece of timber, especially if it produces a natural edge bowl, than they would form a less interesting timber. I have seen this time and time again when punters are queuing up to pay for work made from a manky old bit of timber, the mankier the better. It is like that on some days.

[bodrighywood]

I am a full time pro and as such make most of my living from commissions, demos etc plus some gallery work. The area I am thinking of is where I sell higher end work at the larger shows. When people go to a gallery they are going to expect to see work at a higher price and assume that it is of a good value but should this mind set apply to shows as well? I make the money for smaller shows with lower cost items and only have more expensive pieces as attention getters though occasionally I do sell some. At the larger shows do people expect the same sort of value/cost ratio?

Pete

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

Hi Pete, happy new year.
                    At the type of fair that you are talking about my prices range from twenty quid to about £600. I currently have a piece for £400 which if it sells all well and good if it doesn't then I may drop the price a bit. I find it is easier to drop a price than it is to put a price up.
Imagine we are both at the same fair,you sell your stuff at £20 a pop and I sell mine at £50 a pop. You will have to make more sales than me to meet the day's expected sales figure. So you will need to sell 5 to make 100 quid when I only have to sell 2. Like most people here I don't like to discuss my own prices for things but I have one or two magic numbers that seem to work well for me and I use them time and again, I also have loss leaders, something just to tempt customers in. One of the things I will do is give a piece away every now and then but only when there is a crowd about to notice. This gives your customers the feeling that you are a nice person(which I am of course)and encourages them to buy from you.
       Put your prices up and see what happens, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

[TWiG]

This is an oft raised subject and a hard one to answer really , the market will decide if your work is worth it ( generally speaking ) we can all cite examples of over priced work , but does it sell ... regularly ?  also of under priced work ... I am a part time pro and combine it with other activities to provide me with a humble yet enjoyable lifestyle , I sell almost exclusively through galleries and like it that way .   I am researching the prospect of attending a few select craft events this year  but doubt that my work will fetch the same price as the galleries regularly achieve .  My pricing varies as sometimes I can turn a nice large bowl from ..for example a piece of crotch wood and produce a very nice looking piece in a relatively short time yet know this can command a good price , on other occasions I may turn a hollow form from a blandish piece of wood that takes a good deal longer yet will not get the price the bowl would yet took longer to do !  I can hollow very thin through a small hole yet rarely bother now as the extra effort does not achieve a corresponding increase in price ( other turners like it though ) ... I turn a lot of hollow vessels though , also my overheads are very low .. small shed in rear garden , no rent / rates etc .. domestic energy supply and I obtain a great deal of very nice wood cheaply and locally .

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

Hi Twig, interesting what you said about hollowing as I have had several comments from gallery owners/operators to the effect of "why do you turners always make your stuff so thin?" Why do we when all we have to do is turn it even?

[Graham]

Hi Twig, interesting what you said about hollowing as I have had several comments from gallery owners/operators to the effect of "why do you turners always make your stuff so thin?" Why do we when all we have to do is turn it even?

Good question but bad answer. I suspect it is because you can. I have handled really thin turnings and they felt 'cheap' to me. like those fake wooden trays. I much prefer a good quarter incher.

[burywoodturners]

It is partly to satisfy ourselves that we can do it, partly to impress other woodturners, and partly in the apparently erroneous belief that the more time and skill we put into our work, the more we can charge.
Ron

[TWiG]

Oh  ,  it is not only me that has realised this !!! ......  although some woods need / prefer to be thin .. most do not , however a thick walled vessel can seem clumsy and is more likely to crack so a happy medium is desired , a vessel approx 300 mm tall I normally reduce to about 5-8 mm thick sometimes a little thicker at the base to aid stability if it has a small foot , or if I am to carve  / texture it then more . In fact my own feedback has shown that very thin is less desirable due to fragility . Also tiny entry holes are not worth doing  ( financially ) very often .  As to "how much is it worth " if you can not achieve a price for a piece that reflects the time , effort , skill and costs put in to it then do not make more of the same !  I some times get an idea for a new design and can spend quite a while developing / making it and then do not feel it will command a price to reflect this , but sometimes you just have to scratch a creative itch  ( so to speak )  also I would not like to repeatedly make the same thing just because they sell !!  Most of us consider ourselves craftsmen / artists / makers  and spend a lot of time developing skills for this and buying gadgets etc but how many put the same effort in to marketing ??... ( not me )

[bodrighywood]

I find that making things 'thin etc is not really of any benefit except to your ego. I encourage people to handle a lot of my work as it is the tactile aspect that is often attractive. If it is so fragile that it is likely to break what's the point. Same with a lot of woodturning. Do it once it prove you can then get back to what sells or is practical IMHO.

Pete

[TWiG]

Bert Marsh did rather well making thin stuff though !!

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

I agree about Bert Marsh's work and I do not think it would have worked so well  had it been thicker. When you think about it we don't turn our segmented forms that thin do we? Well not always anyway. I wonder if thin work originated from turning wet wood?

[seventhdevil]

how much is it worth???

it's worth exactly how much you can convince the customer to pay for it...

[Graham]

Many people say that the worth of a piece varies according to where you are selling it. They call it 'knowing your market' and in some ways I suppose that is a good thing and fair enough.
If I go to a 'posh' fair and buy your hollow form for £500 and then go to an ordinary fair 50 miles away and see you selling a copy of it for £250 should I feel a nit miffed ?

[TWiG]

Graham , I doubt the price differential between 2 outlets would be as great as that !  Also have you never paid more for something from a swanky place than another .. a meal , glass of wine etc....  Galleries are very good at marketing , often in nice buildings in good locations and attract a more discerning clientele  looking for something special and seem to be more willing to pay a premium for this !