Swapping Lathe Stand for Bench

[howlingbaboon]

Hi All,
I'm considering mounting my AWVSL1000 on a bench instead of it's stand that it is currently on. When I've had larger pieces out of balance on for roughing out I've had it galloping round the shed like a crazy horse and the stand (sheet steel) looks like it's just going to crumple under the 97kgs (emergency stop!). I also get quite a lot of vibration even when a piece is round. Do you think it will help if I mount it on a sturdy bench instead or is it best on the stand which was made for it? I've been offered a good looking bench which could easily be boxed in to create storage and space for weighting. I guess I've got to raise it off the surface on blocks of some kind so that I can access under the bed to tighten up nuts etc.

All advice much appreciated, Cheers
Dave

[seventhdevil]

i saw on facebook that someone made a great bench out of scaffold poles to get rid of the vibration you have. they are bloody heavy so it might be better than a wooden bench.

[Lazurus]

As Steve says weight is very important, my first lathe Axminster M900 had a sheet steel sand, I boxed this in and filled with damp sand, also bolted to the floor, it was never a problem. be careful not to exceed what the lathe is specified for though, sometimes our eyes are bigger than out bearings!!!!!!

[fuzzyturns]

It's all down to weight, as Lazurus said. You can bolt the lathe to the floor, which removes the walkies, but if you don't dampen the vibrations, this will ultimately rip the bolts out of the floor. Weight, weight and more weight. And then add some for good measure.

[Derwent Woodturning club]

I will come at this from a different angle that goes against many other turners but based on basic engineering principles.

If something is out of balance it applies forces across the plane of motion. For woodturners that force converts into vibration as it moves the lathe. If you stop that movement, the force has not gone away, it is still there and will work on the next weak point, namely your spindle bearings and it WILL damage them.
When turning pieces that are either intentionally or just initially, out of  out of balance it is much better to counterbalance the work, usually by placing weights on a disk mounted next to the workpiece. This gets rid of vibration and stresses on both the lathe and the turner.

[howlingbaboon]

Yeah I thought about boxing it in and adding weight. I've got 2 large 16" blanks and another big log on the tool shelf to weigh it down but I don't think the shelf can take much more. Unfortunately, I don't think bolting down is an option as the floor seems to be a fairly thin layer of concrete. A mate suggested bolting it down to a big piece of ply and weighting that down but maybe the weight spread out wider with less downward pressure could be less effective. Here's some pics of the bench in question, needs a new top. It's bigger than my stand so if I box I in, I could get loads of weight in there. I thought that middle legs would add a lot of stability too.

P.s. I'm trying to spend a little more time with the chainsaw balancing the blanks before mounting now. Yeah good advice on not pushing my lathe too far, I intend to do the big ones on the Hegner in a workshop I'm a member of.

[howlingbaboon]

Paul, I'm interested in knowing a little more about your counter balancing system. Could you explain a little more or maybe a pic or diagram, cheers

[howlingbaboon]

So it's looking like the bench isn't quite wide enough. The bench is 48" wide. The inner 2 bolts on the lathe are 43" apart so they would fit on however the outer 2 bolts are 51" apart. This would leave me either having to have the bench top overhang by a few inches on either end or just bolt it down with the 4 inner bolts. Do you think either of these solutions would work or should I just pass on it?

[Dave Atkinson]

Hi
I've read this with interest and it seems to me you are pushing your lathe beyond what it's designed for.  it's lowest speed is 500 rpm which is possibly too fast for roughing out large out of balance bowl blanks.  I go down to 200 a 300 on mine if I have something like that to do (Nova DVR)

Also even when round a large blank will be out of balance because the density of the blank will vary.  You can often see this as the piece will rotate such that the heavy part is at the bottom when the lathe is turned off.

As Paul says even if you fasten it down the forces at play will still be there.

Maybe worth considering upgrading your lathe to something designed to cope with what you want to do?

Cheers Dave

[bodrighywood]

I have the trade version of this lathe and have it on the proprietary stand like yours which I use for smaller work and at demonstrations. Though the lowest speed on mine is much lower than yours I still wouldn't try and turn heavy off centre pieces on it, I would do those on the Maxi-1 at one of its lowest speeds and can still get some vibration, especially if I have the head swivelled, if it is too big. If you try and make the lathe stable to minimise vibration etc I suspect that you would end up damaging the bearings or some other part of the lathe as it is a hobby lathe and not built to do the sort of work you are describing. The only answer tom your problem would be to invest in a much stronger bigger lathe or curb your ambitions I'm afraid.

Pete

[Duncan A]

I agree with Dave and Pete on this. By the time you've purchased or made a bench, wood, screws, fixings etc only to find that the lathe is simply not up to the demands you are placing upon it, you would have been better off buying a heavier duty lathe. Electronic speed control, down to the low hundreds, will also make a massive difference; if nothing else because you can raise the speed slowly, instead of pressing the start button and standing back to see what mayhem results.
Remember, just because a lathe has a 12" swing, it doesn't mean it can handle large out-of-balance 12" logs.
If funds are a problem, I suggest you concentrate on smaller stuff for the time being, and try to use only well balanced blanks until such time as you can afford a better lathe.
Above all else, remember to wear face protection, especially important if you are turning large gnarly lumps of wood of unknown properties - you can not duck quickly enough to avoid the unexpected missile. DAMHIKT!
Safe turning
Duncan

[Derwent Woodturning club]

Hihowlingbaboon (Sorry I couldn't find your real name),

Paul, I'm interested in knowing a little more about your counter balancing system. Could you explain a little more or maybe a pic or diagram, cheers

I rarely use it as I try to get my blanks balanced before I start turning, either by trimming the 'blank' itself (removing 'lumps' and 'bumps'), or by moving it around on the centres until I find the correct centre of gravity. If I do use it, the 'system' consists of a ½" plywood disk, of close to max. 'over bed' diameter, mounted on the headstock, behind the chuck. The jaws are removed from the chuck as I am just using it as a massive 'nut' to hold the disk in place. I use a large spur centre into the Morse taper to drive the work and a live centre at the tailstock end. Now I can bolt weights into position on the disk to balance up the blank. Their position is determined by letting the blank find its lowest point, then you SECURELY bolt a weight at the 12 o'clock position on the disk, as near the edge as possible. The further out you can go, the smaller the weight needed to counterbalance the wood. I use an old set of kitchen scale weights drilled through the centre to take a 10mm bolt for the large ones, 5mm for the smaller ones. It's exactly the same principle as used by tyre balancers, when you have new tyres fitted.

You may need to change the weights as you work on the blank as the balance will change.

One very important thing - you MUST wear full face protection as you now have weights as well as lumps of wood rotating but we all do that don't we!

Hope that helps,

[howlingbaboon]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I think the biggest I've made on my lathe has been about 10". The blank I described was out of balance because the original log must have been bucked at an angle resulting in one side of the endgrain of my blank sloping in and the other side sloping out. As I say, I've started trying my best to mirror both sides by making a sloping cut inwards with the chainsaw on the side that protruded out. The blanks are now much more balanced and the one I described turned fine after this. Don't worry, I'm saving the big blanks for the Hegner. I always use a full face shield.

I started learning to turn on the Hegner (after I'd had a taster on my dad's 100+ year old lathe). It's in a community workshop which is great with the only problems being the distance to travel and the committing nature of having to finish and tidy up in the same session (which can exhaust me). I certainly miss those slower speeds. Always seems odd to me that one has to pay more for a machine that will go slower (any way to modify it so I can go slower?)

I'd like to think that this lathe has a bit more mileage though seen as I've only had it a month or so. It also seems odd to me if a lathe with 12" swing and outboard tool rests, swivel head etc can't handle these things, what are the point of these features then? They are certainly used as selling points...

What were people thoughts on the bench connundrum?
Cheers
Dave

[howlingbaboon]

Thanks for describing your method Paul. I'm sure it will come in handy at some point down the line when the other adjustments are no possible or for off-centre projects. Cheers, Dave

[Derwent Woodturning club]

Hi Dave,
Thanks for the name and glad to be of use. If you ever get the chance to see Gerry Marlow, he uses a similar system for some of his demonstrations.