Is it my imagination

[GEDWOOD]

  Is it my imagination or is just being able to turn good shapes I.e. beads, coves, balls tulips etc. gone by the board and been replaced by hollow forms, complicated constructions and high gloss finishes. Don't we all need good basic skills before moving on to the complicated artistic works. On a different note something else I've noticed is that many of us amateurs try to hard to emulate some pro's and remove vast amounts of material with a single cut then wonder why the finish is not great and their lathes are vibrating across the workshop I was fortunate to attend an all day demo with Glenn Lucas at the Axminster club a couple of weeks ago what a professional turner that man is he made me smile whilst turning a bowel he said I'm just taking light cuts removing about a quarter of an inch of materiel in one cut. Just take it steady boys, most of us are turning for fun and not against the clock At present I'm turning a number of large pine country table legs out of some crap fast grown pine,  trying to get a good finish straight from the tool is quite difficult no matter how sharp my tools are I really sharpen my skews and strop the edge to a point where it shaves the hairs from my arm before starting each leg I ensure the tools I'm going to use are as sharp as poss. I enjoy the work and of course its always nice to get paid for what you do.  Does anybody have a solution. I have no choice of materials Ged Meager   

[GBF]

You are absolutely right a lot of Novice turners are not prepared to learn the basics and want to start by making advanced works like Hollow forms.
If you learn basic tooling with well profiled sharp tools you can then work up to the more complicated work. I tell all of my students learn it in modules for example ,learn bowl turning and practice practice practice until you perfect it then move on to spindle turning and practice practice practice then maybe hollowing or texturing and colouring maybe carving.
Also don't think every time you go to the lathe you have to make something to keep give away or sell, sometimes it is good to just make practice pieces then bin them or keep them for future reference.
I spent an hour this morning practicing with the skew because I do very little spindle turning and felt I was a bit rusty.
My brother Chris is an time served joiner and accomplished turner and I said to him one day practice is good and his reply was :only good practice is good.
Get tuition from a good pro and learn the basics of tooling and sharpening that is my advise
I am sure a lot of would be turners give up because they do not have properly profiled and sharpened tools and think it is not for them when a day with a good pro would put them on the right road

Regards George

[Bryan Milham]

Ged,

Spindle turners are a unusual find among hobby turners.

Yes, they do turn spindles when they need to as part of something else, but not normally as a first choice turned item.

[Les Symonds]

Today, at Mid Wales Woodturners club we had a demonstration from Mike Painter, a highly skilled Eclesiastical Master Carver, who knew very little about wood turning...yet I learnt so much from him. He brought us all back to the basics of choosing the right tool for the right job, about sharpening it to perfection and about keeping things simple. It was most enlightening. As George has just pointed out, too many inexperienced turners make the mistake of wandering down the path of attempting to make complex forms before we learn the proper basics of the art...and I'm speaking from personal experience here. I followed the advice of George, and several other members of this forum, and got myself back to basics....it was a lesson well learned.
Les

[bodrighywood]

As I tend to do a fair bit of spindle turning I usually get a student doing that first and then moving on to doing bowls etc. Surprising how many are better with a skew at forst than a bowl gouge. As said, learning the basics gives a good foundtion to move on from.

Pete

[GEDWOOD]

 ;DIn my own humble opinion the best I've ever seen with a skew Is Ray Jones a lovely man time served turner. If you want to learn how to spindle turn the basics well and what the shape should look like I would highly recommend both his DVDs "a basic course in spindle turning & a basic course in bowel turning" If ever I need to remind myself of what I should be doing and what it should look like These are my first go to DVDs along with A foundation course in woodturning by Keith Rowley. I've been turning for over 20 years I was taught by a guy who taught partially sighted people to turn I figured if he could teach people with that disability he could teach an old fart like me. I've never regretted that week -end course at Yandles.  Sadly the guy who taught me has now retired. Would GBF be George Fowraker if so I saw your bro Chris demonstrate recently at Martock wood turners whilst his demo was predominantly spindle work it was highly entertaining and I learned a lot. and yes I don't think many of us practice enough  Ged Meager

[GBF]

Yes that was my Brother Chris both of us will be there in April so if you are there say hello

Regards George

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

Part of being an artist, be it in paint or clay or any other medium, ours obviously is wood, is learning your tradecraft first. The basic tooling and methodoligy of producing. When you are skilled in that then you can start to do things differently and with some applied degree of success. All to often we see turners who have been turning for 5 minutes and think they better than they are, producing substandard results. that is no way to learn a craft and it certainly does nothing to promote wood turning. Just my humble opinion of course.

[bodrighywood]

Technique, as said, is all important and takes patience to learn well. It is also an ongoing thing and I for am always looking back at things I made before and seeing where I went wrong. Personally I think anyone who wants to take up woodturning should also look at other crafts / art forms as well.  Looking at other disciplines will help to see ways of using the techniques to move on artistically. Walk around a church or other old buildings, art galleries and museums and see what was achiieved by past masters with very basic tools and ask yourself if you can do as well with the same equipment. Look at some of the so called 'jobbing turners' and see what they achieve, again often with just two or three different tools.  Don't assume that by getting the modern tools or a better lathe will make make you a master at your craft work.  They don't unless you first master the basics. Also accept that you will never please all the people all the time.

Pete

[GBF]

I have been asked several times why my Students turn a bowl as their first lesson.
The following is Copied and pasted from my Blog.

Recently somebody asked me why is it that most of your novice turners always seem to make a bowl.
Well there are a number of good reasons why as an introduction to woodturning I consider the the best introduction is to make and take away a  Bowl.
Making a bowl in my opinion covers a great deal of the disciplines needed to go away with and practice with a good knowledge of safety, tools to use and tools not to use. How to present the tools to the wood to get the most efficient cut and also very important how to sharpen tools.
I once asked another woodturner who also teaches what he teaches on an introduction to woodturning day and his reply shocked me. He said the day consists of spindle turning and at the end of the day the student takes  away  a Garden dibber.
Now I cannot imagine a more fruitless way of spending a day learning how to use a Spindle roughing gouge ,Spindle gouge, parting tool and possibly a Skew chisel to take away a Garden dibber worth about six pounds.
My students always go away with a well made Bowl made by themselves worth about fifty to sixty pounds that is what I call value for money.

Regards George

[edbanger]

I feel that anyone who wants to take up the art of woodturning seriously should treat it like taking an apprenticeship go for lessons with a good time served teacher and then as George has said practice, practice and practice some more. I was taught that you should treat every cut like a finishing cut, slicing the fibers to eliminate torn grain.

We should all learn how to use all the tools correctly and develop the feel and touch required to control the cutting edge of the tool.

I remember when I spent two days with Stuart Mortimer the first thing he did was a spindle blank with a skew he asked me if I could use a skew to which I answered yes as I felt that I could. I soon said I can't use a skew after watching him. But when I left his course I spent an hour every day for 3 or 4 months practicing the skew. How days every now and again I pick up the skew and turn a spindle with it so I remember what I should be doing but spindle turning is not something that I use day to day.

Last year while spending some time with our very own Mark Sanger he asked me how quick I could turn a bowl I think that I said if I needed to be quick then around 40 minutes, this was my first lesson on how to turn a quick bowl with heavy cuts so guess what it was a new skill so practice, practice and practice some more 

All the best

Ed     

[GEDWOOD]

Look forward to meeting Chris and George at Yandles show next month thanks for your replies guys.

[julcle]

Hi Ged - Will you be going to Yandles on the Saturday or the Friday ? I shall be there on the Friday as will quite a few from the forum so may see you there also.  --  Julian

[Bryan Milham]

I'm also planning on being there on the Friday, look out for the Dragonfly (It's in my hat)

[Steve Jones]

Hi Ged, to answer your question yes, the basic spindle turning is becoming less poplar. Hollow forms are becoming much easier and less skilled with the vast array of modern hollowing tools and jigs so the less skilled can produce these. The true apprenticeship for a woodturner is no longer available so to learn woodturning people take just a few lessons or watch YouTube (big mistake). As George points out turning a bowl produces a more valuable and attractive project than spindle work so most pupils want to learn that first.

You asked about turning poor quality pine, getting a good finish is not a problem with sharp tools and good presentation. Without seeing what you are doing it's impossible to answer why you are struggling but it sounds like your tools are sharp so I presume your tool presentation needs tweeking.
this clip shows the finish I expect to achieve straight from the tools on poor quality pine.
https://www.facebook.com/TheWoodturners/videos/10154211698949915/