Under-selling!

[Les Symonds]

One pleasant aspect of having my own little shop and gallery, is meeting and having a chat with other wood-turners who call in. However, on Friday a gentleman called in and asked me, 'Are you the person who makes all this stuff?', to which I replied that I was. He then told me that he, too, was a wood-turner and he wanted to shake my hand for having such a shop, but (and it's a big 'but') he then said, 'What the heck do you do with all the stuff that you make? I just don't know what to do with it. I've got a house full of the stuff. I go to craft fairs and try to sell it, but nobody wants to buy wooden stuff!' I asked him about his pricing structure and he said, 'When I do craft fairs I make loads of apples and pears, all out of laburnum because I've got loads and it's beautiful stuff, and I try to sell them at £2 each, but nobody wants to buy them.'
I showed him the prices that I charge (which were generally about 7 times as much as what he was charging) and he seemed amazed that I could sell anything at those prices....the conversation didn't go a lot further.

Les

[bodrighywood]

One thing we have realised doing larger multi day shows is that people who are looking to buy want quality and expect to pay for it. If you want to sell things cheaply they should be things like tops and keyrings that use little wood, take minutes to make and so can be sold cheaply. People do relate cost to value and worth and selling a bowl (for example) just for the cost of the wood is simply unrealitstic. I get a lot of my wood free so should I give the piece away? This is a real bone of contention with me and I personally feel that as long as there are people who are selling their work at silly prices the general public will never really value what we do. Anyone who sells or is thinking of selling their work, be they part timers or full timers ( no such thing as being an amateur and selling!!!) needs to sit down and think of the full cost, if they don't know how ask.

Climbs off hobby horse LOL

Pete

[GBF]

Fruit is a good example my Brother Chris http://www.dartmoorcreativewoodturning.co.uk/gallery.html was at a show and there was another turner there and Chris's fruit was more than twice the price but he sold loads and the other turner did not sell any because the shape and finish were not as good. The advantage there was because there was the two of them the public could see the difference. So sometimes competition can work in your favour.

Regards George

[bodrighywood]

True George, I used to a do a local show and there was another turner who started copying some of the things that I did. Several times I had people I had seen looking at her work coming up and buying mine even though they were more expensive. Don't think it was because I was a prettier face OL.

Pete

[Les Symonds]

We had a similar experience George/Pete. Before we set up Pren, when I was still teaching, we did a Christmas Fair at a local Forestry Commission woodland centre. When we arrived to set up we discovered that we were right next to another turner. Luckily for us, he didn't believe in sanding and finishing, and it really showed in his work. We took about £150, but also landed an order from the Forestry Commission, who took about £330 worth of stock that we had left at the end of the sale.....the bloke next to us was pricing his stock much lower than us and he didn't sell a thing all day. It was a lesson that I soon learned to use to my advantage when we set up 'Pren'.
Les

[GBF]

. Several times I had people I had seen looking at her work coming up and buying mine even though they were more expensive. Don't think it was because I was a prettier face OL.
Pete

You are right Pete it will not have been that LOL

[Derek]

I had the same thing this weekend the chap next to me had more turning than I did he filled more tables about 3 1/2 but it was all crammed in. Where as I only had 1 1/2 tables and spaces between each item, he commented that mine was dearer than his and with a smirk on his face yet at the end of the weekend I managed to sell more than him.

[steve w]

i think the difference is you have a quality shop which looks right

[bodrighywood]

i think the difference is you have a quality shop which looks right

The location may dictate what you sell but it doesn't give an excuse for shoddy goods, silly prices etc which is what many of us quietly seethe about. I don't sell at many small local shows anymore simply because I can't and won't compete with the type of things sold at them. many are good but simply aimed at a lower priced market but wherever I am I try and have a display that is worthy of a gallery not piled up on a table and that everything I am selling is of a good quality and displayed well. As wood turners part of out ethos should surely be to show that what we do is a craft and / or art form that is to be respected and worth what we are asking for. How else do we hope to encourage others to take it up? You don't have to have a shop, gallery etc to show off your work as something to be respected. When we do a show it takes a good couple of hours to get it set up properly and is all part of the business as far as I am concerned.

pete

[Lazurus]

So, how do you work out a price for a piece, keep it realistic, and cover your costs. As a hobby turner the pleasure for me is in the making, I do not have to make any profit, but I will not undersell my efforts either. As my time is my own I do not have to factor in time taken to produce the piece. As professional turners just how is the pricing structure worked out please?

S.

[bodrighywood]

As a basic guide don't charge less than....
'cost of wood (what it would cost, not what I paid for it ) time taken at a sensible hourly rate(for me £20 an hour) add on for materials, electric, polish. gas for burning etc etc and double. This will sort it self out from piece to piece. For example I make and sell dozens of celtic brooches at £15. The wood is scrap ends and I make three an hour. use of materials is minimal for each. I am getting about £40 an hour for them  A hollow form would take a lot longer, more use of materials etc and so I would charge my basic rate as laid out. When I am famous and have an amazing reputation people may buy at any cost but don't think that will happen. Personally I believe that whether you are turning full time or as a hobby there is a responsibility to sell your work at a price that accentuates the work, thought etc involved.

Pete

[Derek]

Pricing for me as Pete is I charge for replacement of wood if brought from a retailer then I add as above the only thing I differ on is hourly rate because if I charged how long I spend on a piece then it would be a silly price way above what the market would stand, the reason for this is that I am not tying to knock out pieces as quick as possible because this after all is a hobby for me and that is where I get my enjoyment.
I think if I was a turner who relied on it as a living then time taken to complete an object would be a lot quicker.
I only sell to keep my hobby going but at the same time don't want to cheapen the hobby by charging way under value.

[Lazurus]

Thank you gents, yes I see the craft fair turners selling at silly money I guess just to say they have sold something, the formula given is very relevant, and for me the hourly rate is not an issue but the other points are very valid.

[GBF]

Something you part time Fred's in the shed's don't consider is that Pro's pay tax on earnings. Myself for instance I only sell in galleries therefore my sales go strait into my bank account and my Accountant (who I have to pay by the way ) tells the taxman what I have earned and I pay Tax on it yours is all pocket money.
And Galleries take anything from 40 to 60%

Regards George

[fuzzyturns]

Which makes it all the more pertinent that we "Fred's in the sheds" sing the same tune as you "Pros on the go's". In the end, we'll all be off for worse if we don't come to a common understanding of what's fair. All of what George has said is true, although I am pretty sure that his accountant will also scramble together the last bit of expenditure to lower the tax bill, after all that's what he's getting paid for.
I use a formula very similar to Pete's, with a premium for pieces I consider special. Works for me.