Height of Banjo/Toolrest asembly....

[NewbyTurner]

Hi Everyone, as a new Turner I was very excited to get my first lathe but rather disappointed when it came with the toolrest unable to go lower than centre. It is from a very reputable manufacturer, so eventually they sent me another rest that was 5mm shorter.
In essence that means I can can only ever work in that one position so with a tool upon the rest I am always at centre . They have said 'that is how they come' and that short margin of 'movement' is 'acceptable'. Would love to know any views out there as all the people I have ever watched turning often move their  (toolrest up and down,by say 2cm) quite frequently when working. My question to them was why then are  virtually all other lathes engineered with the toolrest/banjo of a height that can be varied but I got no answer to that !
Can I work like this or do I need to get it sorted ?? Many thanks

[Philip Greenwood]

Hi

First welcome to the forum.

Which lathe do you have?. The tip of the tool should be on or above the centre height, meaning the the tool rest should be able to be placed below centre height so the tip of the tool is at centre. When i use a Skew i do rise the tool rest above centre, how much will depend on the diameter of the item being turned.

If you could post the tool rest in the banjo it may help us.

Regards
Philip

[NewbyTurner]

Thanks Philip
Wasnt sure if I am allowed to say the make of lathe - its a DML 36SH.
Obviously everything feels very strange at the moment  and I just feel a bit short -changed. The banjo is very stocky and so is the rest so it sits automaticlly at 5mm below centre.
NT

[Philip Greenwood]

Hi

If the tool rest sits low you can raise it up in the banjo to the height you require and lock in place with the locking handle.

If you can upload a photo it Will help, or if you give a location they could be a club or a member on here who could help you.

Philip

[Paul Hannaby]

I would have thought the toolrest should go much lower than 5mm below centre. For example, if you are using a 1/2" gouge and are cutting at centre height, the tool rest would need to be much more than 5mm below centre because the tool is thicker than 5mm and it would also be held at an angle.
Are you sure the toolpost is going all the way to the bottom of the hole on the banjo? If it is, maybe the solution is to cut a bit off the bottom of the post yourself but really this shouldn't be necessary if the machine is made right.

[Dave Atkinson]

I agree with Paul and Phil - and there shouldn't be a problem on teh record lathe.

I know it sounds obvious but have you checked the toolpost locking handle is fully unscrewed?

Cheers Dave

[BrianH]

Yes you need to cut at or above centre when using a gouge or skew but you also need to go BELOW centre when using a scraper so that the timber is moving away from the tool at the point of cut.
I know nothing of your lathe but if you are anywhere near the Norfolk coast send me a PM and I will try to help.
All the best
Brian

[woodndesign]

Hi NT and welcome to the forum and woodturning,

Sorry to hear you have problems,  you have a replacement rest, how much, if any is it different to the original, other than being shorter, a rest should be adjustable that it drops down to it's underside and lifts that the screw will not engage, if the shorter one went lower, the fault maybe in the banjo and the through bore, could it have a burr at the bottom, even the slightest stopping the post from dropping all the way down, it can be known with castings or machining at time as I've found before, even with the chinese and friday night...   ..

Hope for everones help you're sorted. Happy turning.

            David

[Philip Greenwood]

Hi

I still cut on centre height even with a scraper. The tool rest needs to be ajusted so the top of the tip of the scraper is on centre height. A scraper should be used in a trailing mode ie the end of the end of the handle higher then the tip of the tool, this let the tool cut on centre height. Cutting below is not to be recomended for a learner.

Philip

[admalin]

Our club has 2 of these lathes.
Last year we changed to the latest (more positive mechanism) banjo, which was thicker (higher) than the original
It came with a tool rest which was at centre height.
We got replacements. I'll check the dimensions at Wednesday night's club meeting.

Incidentally I think the convention regarding length of a tool rest is the horizontal dimension.

Tony Malin

[admalin]

I hope the following will enable you to check if you've got the up to date parts.
The saddle is 1 & 1/8" thick and the top of the tool post is an inch above that.
With the rest in its lowest position the top is 3/8" below the centreline of the drive.
I forgot to measure the stem of the tool rest, but if required I can check it next Wednesday. 

Tony Malin

[NewbyTurner]

Hi Everyone - thanks so very much for all your replies.
The toolrest/banjo measures 115mm from the bedbars to the top and then to the centre point from bedbars 121mm hence giving me 6mm.
It is all assembled correctly and the toolpost is not too long. Hope the pic helps.
Have already joined a Turning club which ius really great - ESWT- and have mentioned it there with differing opinions so guess as manufacturer says it is an 'acceptable' height I'll just have to learn to live with it  but was interested to see that someone else has had the issue. I know for a fact that the one of display at Yandles in Somerset is set at 1mm below centre so that fact they said they had never had a complaint before does not ring true.
Thanks again

[BrianH]

From the picture the existing setup doesn't look good to me (I wonder if they just pulled an existing model of toolrest off the shelf when they designed the lathe?). If you have no joy from the manufacturer may I suggest you set about making a replacement toolrest yourself. All you need is a piece of tube or rod to fit your banjo and another bit of something smaller for the rest itself. If you are able to source the main shaft from a car shock absorber you will find it almost ideal as it is hard enough to stop the rest being marked by the tools. As long as your new rest is of a smaller diameter than the existing you will be able to set it lower and as long as the length of its support is chosen wisely you will be able to go higher. The only difficult bit might be to ensure the two pieces are welded square to each other.
Hope that helps a bit
Brian

[Paul Hannaby]

Another solution might be to buy an off the shelf toolrest like one of the Sorby modular toolrests.

[Andy Coates]

I flipped the picture for you..hope you don't mind...

From the picture and your description I'd say the situation is far from perfect. With small gauge tools, such as a 3/8" spindle gouge, or when using a parting tool, you'll probably have no problem, but larger gauge tools are going to be a problem. You will find that you have to bring your handle much further upwards to take the cutting edge down to the centre.

From the picture it looks like the weld at the top of the stem is very heavy, and wonder if an engineer couldn't clean that up a little for you and allow a few mm more drop in the banjo. It needs to be done by somebody who understands what they are doing so that the rest remains strong enough for its purpose.

I do feel though that you should not have to make adjustments, or buy/make replacements for a newly purchased lathe. Record should be fully aware of the need for a toolrest that can be positioned bellow the centre line. You could use their large spindle roughing gouge safely using that rest because the cutting edge would either be far to high (above centre), or else the handle would need to be held far too high risking a catch and a snatch.

I know a lot of turners with older CL machines and none are set up like this.

Whatever you do, be careful when using it!