Timber query

[Gary Lowe]

Hi Guy's can anyone shine a light on the attached photo's please. The question is are these both Tree of Heaven? The lighter one is not the query, it's the darker one I'm really asking about. Have it on good information  (tree surgeon of 30+ years) that both are Ailanthus/ Tree of Heaven but due to a conversation on FB this may be in doubt??
Many thanks Gary

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

the turned item and the rh piece in the other photo looks to be Laburnham. Not sure what the other piece is, could be apple or cherry?

[TWiG]

Firstly,  I like the bowl in the first pic , but  find it hard to believe they are the same species, and am pretty sure it is Sumach ( Rhus typhina ) .....

[Gary Lowe]

the turned item and the rh piece in the other photo looks to be Laburnham. Not sure what the other piece is, could be apple or cherry?

Many thanks for the reply John, definitely not Laburnum though, not hard enough and to resiny although it does look like it in the photos. The lighter one is pretty much agreed that it's ToH, I was told that the darker one was ToH also but when answering another turner about a post he put on about timber, the consensus was his picture was of Tree of Heaven. Having had some I replied with a photo for comparison which was identical, then posted the attached ones with the darker wood which I was informed was ToH also. This was queried and hence this post. Tree of Heaven is also known as Chinese Sumac, having only ever seen Sumac in photo's it looks similar but unsure, so hoping to get a yes or no! sorry for the rambling on, lol

[Gary Lowe]

Firstly,  I like the bowl in the first pic , but  find it hard to believe they are the same species, and am pretty sure it is Sumach ( Rhus typhina ) .....

Many thanks for the reply Twig, I was finding it hard to believe they were the same but was informed they are. Tree of Heaven (Ailanthus) is also called Chinese Sumac, maybe a distant relation ?

[Les Symonds]

The darker wood looks remarkably like Sumach/Sumac....I've worked quite a lot of it. Incidentally, it's more commonly known as the garden shrub, Rhus, and is used in many countries as a spice.

Les

[Gary Lowe]

The darker wood looks remarkably like Sumach/Sumac....I've worked quite a lot of it. Incidentally, it's more commonly known as the garden shrub, Rhus, and is used in many countries as a spice.

Les

cheers Les, looked up the botanical books on line and Ailanthus Altissima (Tree of Heaven) is also known as Stinking Sumac, Chinese Sumac plus a few other names so thought they might be related, but no, different families but very similar trees.

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

I think you got your answer (sort of) Gary, never having turned ToH I am unable to comment on that. I do wonder though if it is like English walnut in as much as it is believed that the wood does not darken until the tree has born fruit?

[seventhdevil]

sumac seems like a good call. it should be easy to identify as the bark and cambium layer ooze a very sticky latex when cut.

i've turned a bit of judas tree that looked like that.

a close up of the endgrain would help.

[Gary Lowe]

I think you got your answer (sort of) Gary, never having turned ToH I am unable to comment on that. I do wonder though if it is like English walnut in as much as it is believed that the wood does not darken until the tree has born fruit?

cheers John, I think so. Didn't know about the latter fact though so thanks for that

[Gary Lowe]

sumac seems like a good call. it should be easy to identify as the bark and cambium layer ooze a very sticky latex when cut.

i've turned a bit of judas tree that looked like that.

a close up of the endgrain would help.

cheers for that, never had time to photo the end grain but will try and get one tomorrow.  Yes it oozes a very sticky latex so sounds about right

[Paul Hannaby]

That left piece looks a bit like snake bark maple to me but I would agree, the other one looks like sumac.

[Gary Lowe]

That left piece looks a bit like snake bark maple to me but I would agree, the other one looks like sumac.

cheers Paul

[Gary Lowe]

sumac seems like a good call. it should be easy to identify as the bark and cambium layer ooze a very sticky latex when cut.

i've turned a bit of judas tree that looked like that.

a close up of the endgrain would help.

As promised a photo of the end grain and bark.

[Les Symonds]

If that's not sumac I'll give up wood turning. The pattern and distribution of growth rings, the colour, the narrow band of contrasting sapwood, the bark and even signs of the sticky sap that exudes out of the cambium when it's cut. Absolutely no doubt in my mind.

Les