sycamore bowl with lid

[Mark Sanger]

Hi Phil

The main point for me with regards to this piece is your opening comment in that you enjoyed turning it. That is for me what turning is all about, sure hell not going to make anyone a millionaire  

My mother has a burr oak bowl that I made some 15 years ago, it was a beautiful piece of wood and helped me some what to offset the forms. While I would indeed do it different now, it was a gift and my mother loves it, of course she is biased    but it was part of my journey in turning to where I am now and in which I will continue.

Certainly do not burn pieces, this is a good piece and you will have learnt a lot from making it, self critique is very important and something I do all the time, never being happy with an item can help a lot but it can also be a burden so don't take it too seriously, its only woodturning   perhaps being aware of the points you are not happy with is a better route.

What I am trying to say is, enjoy the process and keep photo's of your pieces, look at them regularly and make notes, refine at least one part in the next piece continuing this process infinitum, if burnt every thing that was not perfect I would not have any work to sell   it is just that my pieces now are slightly less imperfect than they were a few years ago.  

'Imperfection is perfect in itself'. I know that statement will make me sound like a hippy   but until we find what is imperfect we can not strive for perfection and until will see the beauty of imperfection we can not understand perfection.

With regards to the piece itself I note the points you are not happy with and those others have picked up on, so I do not need to go over these. Personally for how long you have been turning I think it is a worthy piece. Sort out the points on the next one and if you want any tips of roughing out etc just email me and I will let you know how I rough mine out. It may take me a while to get back to you, quite happy to give my tips for a jar of your imperfect pickles.   Just kidding of course, but my address is on my website   no I am kidding, honest, do you do any Chilli pickle by any chance?  

[Mark Sanger]

No George, I do take on board what you said and again thank you for your advice but also wished to hear from others, which may or may not be of the same opinion as yourself, as it is a forum.

You sent this the same time as I posted my thoughts. 

[TWiG]

The idea of perfection is very much the antithesis of "handmade " crafts to some extent ,especially with wood, a perfectly imperfect material , liken it to a portrait artist who is so good it looks like a photograph , then why not just take a photo ?  Although we can all strive towards greater skills to make more beautiful work there is the danger of it becoming a little sterile to some extent , Farmerphil , consider this your personal best so far , a new level of achievement of which you are justifiably proud , like many sportsmen become the best that they can be, but do not become the best ever . As well as reaching a new personal best , learn from your self and others to become even better .... Terry    ( feeling quite  philosophical tonight !! )

[Mark Sanger]

Totally agree Terry, although you said it in fewer words than me  , the pursuit of greater skills should never be constrained to the the skill of technique alone. For me this is why I enjoy texturing a colouring, disguising the wood, at times, but not exclusively I see the pure turned wood form similar to your example of the portrait artist and the camera. But I fear I will take Phil's thread off track so may start another.



 

[John D Smith]

Hi Phil,
           I would say for the amount of time you have been turning you should be proud you have come this far in such a short time there is not a single turner on this forum who started turning gallery pieces the first time they turned a piece of wood.When turners talk about faults look at all the Bowls etc. that have holes in them this is classed as a natural feature or Art   I hope you will continue to post your turnings on this Forum.
I consider this piece was well turned and had a good finish and beautiful grain "Smile and carry on Turning"

                                                    Regards John

                                                            

[farmerphil]

Thanks so much for all the comments.

Mark, feel free to move the thread on a tangent as well. Sorry out of Asian plum sauce  right now but new season starting soon...

John: I think I have caught the addiction, it's great fun

Back to the drawing board tomorrow

Regards

Phil

[georg]

  From looking at this piece we find it... different.. and you are looking for your own Style..... wanting to be different from the norm.
  Which in our opinion you have achieved..... As always you have to take chances ( which we do all the time )while you are
  developing your turning... In our eyes the over all view of your well turned and excellently finished piece has impact.
  We are very much looking forward to watching your work develop.
  Tony and Di

  PS Yes the finial does need thought.
  Kind Regards   Tony
 

   

[farmerphil]

Thanks Tony and Di and also Terry- I like your goal setting idea of personal best.

I have reflected on earlier comments, and know that the lid could have been done better. From here I do not think that I can refashion the lid as it is about 6 mm thick at its peak where the knob is glued in but is only 3mm at its rim and I do not have the skill or confidence to try. If I used a similar wood or contrasting timber  reckon it might  detract from the main piece and fortunately the main item can stand alone without the lid.

The other take home message is patience, trying to run before I can walk.

With hindsight I wish I had turned it t'other way around so the base was the top as the markings are more prominent on the underside - other thoughts welcome

Regards

Phil

[Bryan Milham]

I like the curves and the finish.

The fact that the line of the lid stands slightly proud of the rest of the shape I don't see as wrong as it still fits with the overall shape. The form has moved...  well wood does that. Something we all have to live with.

Bet it was fun working the base though, with the ingrowing bark.

[Steve Jones]

Phil, I saw your photo and was very surprised to see some of thecomments. I think the finish is good and like the shape. Although I agree that the lid and finial could be improved it does not shout out as poorly designed to me. Considering the time you have been turning you should be pleased with your achievements.
I do not agree with not giving it to someone, My Mother still has some of the first items I made, I don't cringe when I see them I smile and it reminds me of how far my work has improved.
There are some good comments on this thread and I am sure you will take them onboard and I look forward to seeing your next piece.

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

I used to throw my mistakes in to a firewood sack for the mother in law until we went there for Christmas one year and neatly lined up on the mantel piece were all my mistakes!! I was told that they were too nice to burn......now all my mistakes go through the band saw.

[GBF]

I suggest some of you read back through the comments very carefully on this thread and you will see that my comments and critique have been very: positive and supportive.
I said the piece was well finished but had flaws which some of you seem to think are OK how does that help. Phil chooses to ignore these faults and put the piece up hoping we would not spot them well I did as always and told him how he could get over it: more positive comment.
I suggested that Phil not give this away because one day when he has improved he will probably wish he had taken my advise and improved his work which is very close to being perfect first.
This is what positive critique is about not giving people a load of flannel and telling them to ignore the faults all you are doing is compounding what Phil obviously thinks ,that faults don't matter.Well they b____y well do matter and if you want to improve then you need to be honest with yourselves.
Many consider my work to be of a very high standard and that is because I have always listened and taken advise from other turners but mostly being my own critique.
I have tried very hard to give positive critique over the years to help novice turners but I will not be doing it any more because it is a waste of time if some of you that have been turning years just want to tell them what you think they want to hear.
Keep up the good work Phil just be man enough to recognise faults and listen to good intentioned advise from people that have made all the mistakes you are making but some of us have moved on
I am teaching a Husband and Wife today Steve and Jill passing on the knowledge I have gained over the last ten years so I will be too busy to get further involved with this thread anyway I have said all there is for me.

Regards George

[Andy Coates]

Here we go again...

Right folks, it's really easy this using a forum thing...

Not everybody speaks/types in the same voice. Not everybody has the same manner of expression.
Some people you'll like, some you won't. It's just like life. If you don't like somebody in life I assume you'd avoid or ignore them? Do the same here. If you don't like somebody to the extent that it's a problem, send them a direct message asking them not to comment in future. You can copy me or a moderator in. If they ignore it I'll ban them.

Whilst it is always a sad day when a user reports a post, the post doesn't always contravene the user agreement. Sometimes it's just differences in personality and manner.And if this is the case then sadly it's tough luck. Like or lump.

Try and remember that what you type has an effect on others. If you don't feel you can comment with care...don't comment.

Moderating this forum is often time consuming and boring. If I get too bored I'll just close it down. And that hardly seems fair to the vast majority of users who behave reasonably. But my time, and the time of the moderators, is far better served elsewhere.