CBN wheels

[Haggy]

My 8" bench grinder will soon need a new grinding wheel and I am debating asking my wife if she would allow me to part with £200.00 so I could buy a CBN wheel!
I am not a professional turner but love the thought of getting my tools as sharp as possible with no over heating problems or stone dust. 
Are all wheels of a similar quality and is it just a case of finding the cheapest price or are there things to be wary of?  Not sure if I can justify this one.
               Haggy

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

Haggy you have now touched on a subject close to my heart. My personal opinion is do not spend lots of money on sharpening systems. 100 years ago all the turners had was a hand cranked whet stone and they made top quality work, why would we want to spend 200 quid or more on a sharpening system (that the manufacturers tell us we need !!) when a £25 grinder from B&Q used correctly will give the same result?
    I know there will be others commenting on this and possibly all the comments will be different but I would rather learn how to sharpen my tools on a cheap grinder and spend the money on something else (I was going to say spend it on something more valuable but sharpening is valuable) that I need/want even a nice piece of wood.

[Nick Arnull]

Haggy,Sharpening is a can of worms,ask ten turners and there will be more than a dozen answers,the final choice can largely depends upon your work and available budget. The choice of wheel can also become personal to individuals requirements.
One area of woodturning often overlooked by turners is the tools they use to sharpen their turning tools with an ever expanding array of steels we need to me more informed about our choices as some of the cryo steels are very tough to sharpen.
I personally have issue with BHT's comments I understand the comment about turners from the past using wet stone wheels but would point out they used softer steels than those we have available today this must be taken into account.
 To suggest a grinder from one of the big sheds is simply ridiculous as the wheels supplied are far to hard and designed to cut/grind softer steels, they inevitably cause bounce to those not used to using the harder wheels when trying to sharpen woodturning tools.They may also run to fast I recommend under 2800 rpm for a 150mm 6" grinder and slower for a larger diameter wheel.
 
I use 150mm 6" Aloxite 80 grit wheels they cut freely and produce a sharp tool that requires no further attention,if we are and should be referring to good quality HSS turning tools.
Some  folks have suggested I change to the CBN wheels but I must admit the price is not acceptable to me,I would also add the feed back from the CBN is dead for me and I don't like the way the wheel feels when cutting the steel with  a free cutting and cleaning Aloxite wheel it can be dressed to provide a very fine cut or alternatively a coarse and more aggressive action,my advise would be  with items like this try before you buy.
Nick Arnull.RPT.

[Haggy]

Thank you BHT and Nick, your comments are really valuable as I know you have great experience in this area.
I was never happy with the results from my old white wheel and had to dress it continuously yet, the CBN wheel is a big cash outlay and my wife would certainly take the view of the BHT. 
Thanks Nick for giving me a new avenue to explore,  your set up is certainly better than mine and a lot less money than a CBN upgrade, I need to think carefully  in light of your comments.
         Haggy

[Nick Arnull]

Haggy,
I use a grinding jig the Oneway Wolverine finding jig with a vari-grind it takes away the guess work. The Storm system from Axminster is I understand a copy of the oneway and from what I understand equally as good.
Nick Arnull.RPT.

[bodrighywood]

Having seen the result of John (Bowler Hatted Turners) sharpening modern steel tools on a cheap wheel I have to side with him. It isn't the quality of the wheel that matters as far as I can see but what you do with it. I also have a real problem with the modern view that we need the latest innovation to be better at what we do and firmly believe that it is more a case of learning to use the tools and equipment properly. Too many turners seem to think that having a modern, expensive sharpening set up means that they can get an edge that will last through a whole turning session but the best advice I have ever been given is little and often.

Pete

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

There you are Haggy, I told you this would happen 
Regardless of what any of us have said what does take my notice is your comment about having to continuously dress one of your wheels. Wheels do need dressing to keep them sharp but also to clean or remove waste material from the grit as a build up of this will warm the wheel up and could cause it some damage, but, they should not need dressing that often or at least as often as I think you have inferred.
      I wonder if before you look at replacing your system you might look at your sharpening technique. I agree with Nick about removing the guess work from sharpening , repeatability is the name of the game,  use a correctly set jig and with a couple of "swipes" you should have a refreshed edge.
   I have used a CBN wheel but did not like the feel of it. But regardless of what any of us have said I still wouldn't part with 200 quid to sharpen a chisel.

[edbanger]

Hi Haggy

I've tried the CBN wheel where I go for lessons and they get the tools sharp, but I much prefer the Jet wet stone system that I purchased, it can use all the Tormek jigs and it gets my tools just as sharp. I have a cheap bench grinder as well which I now only use if I want to re-shape a gouge and I could not get the same finish off it when sharpening as the wet stone.

If you go down the Jet route check out the Axminster store on ebay they often have them up for sale I think that I got mine for about 170.00 or 180.00 and I'm glad I did.

Ed 

[Nick Arnull]

Im not sure that this is best advise from BHT.
"Wheels do need dressing to keep them sharp but also to clean or remove waste material from the grit as a build up of this will warm the wheel up and could cause it some damage, but, they should not need dressing that often or at least as often as I think you have inferred."
 
Grinding wheels should not become hot nor should the tool. A good quality wheel is described as friable, self cleaning and lubricating,so will only need to be dressed to achieve the grade of grind you require ,a diamond dresser like the one's from woodcut are very good indeed if you need a more aggressive cutting action from the wheel then use a carbide matrix (often referred to as a devil stone) The only time a wheel should be dressed will be, if it becomes misshaped the is is as a result of poor technique during the sharpening process.
As I stated earlier there is often little thought given to the process of how to sharpen your tools and this can be an area that will greatly improve anyone turning.
Im not sure if we have really answered your original Question

My 8" bench grinder will soon need a new grinding wheel and I am debating asking my wife if she would allow me to part with £200.00 so I could buy a CBN wheel!
I am not a professional turner but love the thought of getting my tools as sharp as possible with no over heating problems or stone dust. 
Are all wheels of a similar quality and is it just a case of finding the cheapest price or are there things to be wary of?  Not sure if I can justify this one.
               Haggy

Well the simple answer is yes the type of wheels are very different indeed hard soft fast cutting differing grades etc etc...and the choice is an important one as they are not cheep and last some considerable time,I think the wheels on my grinder have been in use for around 10 years possibly longer.
Nick Arnull.RPT.

[Eric Harvey]

I use a grinder I bought in Aldi 10 yrs ago for a tenner,I`ve been sharpening tools all my life so a quick swipe does the job,I bought a cheap water wheel from Axminster last year,just to se if they work any better,you do get a finer edge with them,but it takes longer,and you have to remember to keep the water topped up,I bought all the jigs,the cheap versions,but never use them,by the time you have the tool in the jig,you could have sharpened it and be back on the lathe turning,in my personal opinion Tormecks CBNwhels,Diamond wheels,and the like are far to over priced for what they actually are,cheers,

Eric.

[julcle]

Haggy  --  I have used the Record Power 8" Grinder with 80grit white wheel and the Robert Sorby Universal Jig and find that it does a great job for just about anything. It's a good cheap (if anything is in woodturning) and efficient system. I agree with both Nick and Bryan about technique, my white stone is two years old now which is about as long as I have been turning but still pretty flat. You just have to keep the gouge moving and not put too much pressure it to put ridges in the wheel. In saying this, I did have a bit of spare cash with me at the Yandles Show last September and came away with the Pro Edge and now only use the wheel for profiling, with a fine belt on the pro edge a quick wipe over every now and then keeps the edge more than sharp enough for most of my work and doesn't remove too much steel either so the tool lasts a bit longer. I think it's true that you don't need to spend a lot of money to get the same result but hey If you want to treat yourself why not, after all we deserve a bit of self indulgence !  --  Julian

[Haggy]

Thank you AWGB members for your comments, BHT you were right, every Woodturner has discovered away that works for themselves and when I  view top quality work it is very difficult to be critical.
My background is in furniture design and making, I have owned a lathe for over twenty years and always got by - but I can never say I have mastered the craft.  My aim in woodturning is to achieve a finish that needs next -to- no sanding.
One thing stands out, you do not need a CBN wheel to produce top quality work - the joy of woodturning is you can make something from nothing.
That said, after much research I have ordered a 40 mm wide CBN wheel from Peter Child-I may have made a mistake.   The fact the wheel is 40 mm in width and allows me to sharpen tools on the face of the wheel and on the side is an added advantage in areas such as sharpening my plane irons and engineering lathe tools.
I can see heads dropping in despair- I can only say if my wife had read your threads there is no way on earth she would have let me purchase this wheel. Thankfully, she never attends woodworking shows!
           Regards. Haggy

[Graham]

It is worth remembering that back in the day, when the professional was using a hand cranked whetstone, it would have cost him a pretty penny.

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

Haggy if it is a general workshop addition then it could be money well spent. I hope it works well for you and your opinion after using it for a while could be valuable to our other members here.
   

[Haggy]

Thank you BHT, time will tell if I've made a mistake.
I am impressed with Peter Chlid service, they  ream out the bore of the CBN wheel to fit your grinder and balance it if necessary.   I will be using my old white wheel on the other side of the grinder!
You are right Graham, tuners would not be able to afford to make a living if they have done what I have - please don't tell my wife!
   Regards.   Haggy