A rotten job!

[Les Symonds]

This is a lump of my rotten, spalted holly, which I mounted on the lathe just as a bit of practice at hollowing and working with less-than-perfect timber. Gradually, though, I began to realise that I might just be able to make something out of it. I'd turned the outside into a vase shape and realised that I wasn't going to be able to go much further because there is a crack, going from the rim, right down to the foot and then back up to the rim on the other side. Undaunted, I fed the crack with ca glue a few times, then wrapped a big hose-clip around the vase and bound it with gaffer tape, then I mounted it into my Patriot chuck and hollowed out the inside.
That's when the fun really started! There was a great big lump of completely rotten wood right in the centre of where I was about to turn the foot. This I know because most of it came out in one piece, snagged into the cutter on my hollowing tool! Then the crack started to open up. So I cautiously scraped out as much of the interior as I could, but had to give up after a while and resort to scraping. I can get my hand inside (just) but it's too dangerous to run the lathe with my hand in there, so I resorted to lots of gentle hand-sanding and I made up a soft ball on the end of a metal rod, with various grades of Abranet on it. The inside is nowhere near as good as I'd like it to be, but I can't do any more turning in there and even sanding is a bit precarious.
I managed to reverse mount it on a jam chuck, which I made as a loose fit and then tightened a hose-clip around the vase again to hold it in place, but it was impossible to put a revolving centre against the base because there was now just a hole where the centre should be. To clean the base up I just put a small block of wood, the same diameter as the foot, onto the revolving centre and applied gentle pressure to it.

WHAT TO DO NEXT?

I'm new to this style of turning, and what I'm thinking of is applying several tight turns of silver wire to the vase, about 25mm down from the top, and perhaps securing it by putting a 90degree bend into each end of the wire and setting them each into a hole drilled half-way through the thickness of the wall. I'm not planning to fill all the cracks (despite having just researched the various methods and bought brass powder etc) because I want the vase to remain delicately intact.

I'm open to suggestions from you guys who've dabbled with this sort of thing before and just hoping that my ideas aren't completely off-the-wall.

The vase is 200mm (8") tall and 100mm (4") diameter at the widest point, with the wall thickness down to 5mm at the top, more like 7mm at the base, and what's left of the foot is solid.







Come on guys....be gentle, and helpful (as ever)...Les

[bodrighywood]

If you fill the crack with epoxy mixed with sawdust then clamp it overnight. I'd leave the holes, I like holes (if they are natural LOL) Take it slow and keep your tools sharp when you finish turning and make sure you are wearing a mask, not just goggles. It isn't any worse than this which ended up selling first time out.

Pete

[Les Symonds]

Blimey, Pete, that was quick!....my biggest problem with doing any more turning is that what's left of the foot is too insecure to be able to re-mount it. Having picked away the rot from inside the hole, one half of the foot is wobbling, si I was going to dribble some thick ca into it and wrap the silver wire around it to hold it together.
I agree with you about the holes, though!

[bodrighywood]

If you only have the inside left to turn bind the outside with a load of tape. CA Glue is great stuff but I wouldn't rely on it to hold the foot together when under tension. With what is left of the tenon you have problems as doing the chuck up tight will just crush it. I have turned a plug to go inside things like this but yours is so random it would need carving to shape and is it worth all that effort? I use a ring tool on things like this as there is less chance of a catch and they are really good at cutting out the inside with a pretty good finish.

Pete

[Les Symonds]

Just a thought....I could turn a wooden ring, perhaps in ebonised oak, and CA glue it to the outside of the wall, about an inch down from the top, and also a similar piece to put under the foot. That would make the structure more secure and would allow me to pick out bits of rotten wood in the crack with a dentist's tool....that would accentuate the crack, yet leave the whole thing more robust!

Les

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

Hi Les,
        why don't you stitch it up with the silver wire? Drill pairs of holes the diameter of the wire and just...................sew it up.
   If you have some ebony or something similar turn a ring with the inside profile to match the outside profile of the foot. Snap it in two and glue it on the foot, thereby re-inforcing the foot and making a feature of it at the same time.You could even use it to hide the ends of the wire used in the stitching.
Just some thoughts
Regards
John BHT

[TWiG]

Good on you for attempting to turn such a piece of wood !! It is up to you but I would not spend any more time on it , but think of it as a very good intro / learning experience at this style of turning . Spalted wood is never easy to get a good finish on . It may be better next time to make more of a true hollow form where the interior is not needed to be sanded . As for the cracks . when I have such to deal with, rather than trying to fill them I scorch with a blowlamp to open the edges a little more then use a red hot thin blade or wire to burn the crack a little then clean with folded abrasive to make a feature of the crack  before starting sanding . I do a lot of hollow forms in this style and can often visualise  the potential in an ugly lump of wood that most turners would not look twice at ! It is not always successful but the ones that are I find most satisfying .    Terry...

[Les Symonds]

Thanks Pete, John and Terry for all the ideas....I'm probably going to settle for a combination of some of them. Hope to get it finished and into the gallery soon!
Les

[bodrighywood]

Have to disagree with you Terry regarding getting a good finish on spalted wood. Prior to finishing give a coat of sanding sealer, sand back with at least 400 or wire wool and then buff and you can usually get an excellent finish. The problem a lot of people have is that they don't get a good cut with the tools and end up with a lot of ripped wood.

Pete

[TWiG]

Have to disagree with you Terry regarding getting a good finish on spalted wood. Prior to finishing give a coat of sanding sealer, sand back with at least 400 or wire wool and then buff and you can usually get an excellent finish. The problem a lot of people have is that they don't get a good cut with the tools and end up with a lot of ripped wood.

Pete
It all depends how spalted the wood is !

[Les Symonds]

Well.....I cherry-picked bits of advise and got the vase finished. It was a bit of a monster to re-mount it and there was a moment when I wished that I'd followed Terry's advise and given up on it, but I felt that it had promise and I wanted to experience working on such a badly damaged piece of wood.
There turned out to be a couple of bruises in the outer surface, where the pair of hose clips had cut into it, so I skimmed the outer face, leaving a slight lip, about an inch down from the top. the reason will become obvious if you look at the finished piece in the gallery.
As for re-mounting and returning the inside; I achieved this by making a jam chuck out of a 5" diameter log. I turned a 70mm spigot on the log to mount it in my chuck, then hollowed out the inside so that the vase slipped into it. I turned a second hollow, deep inside the log, for the foot to sit into. Next, I put 8 saw cuts around the perimeter and down the edge of the log so that I could slip the hose-clips over the whole thing and hold the vase secure....which worked a treat and allowed me to finish cleaning up the inside.



the rest of the story is in the gallery, just as soon as I get it loaded.

Thanks for all the advise that you all gave.....Les

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

Les,
      it really doesn't matter on this occasion what the finished product looks like(although I will be interested to see it)as the way you have worked to remount it has taught you more than the value of the finished item.
You have had a steep learning curve and through this you have had to think differently than you might do normally. You may have had to fight harder to work out what to do and I guarantee this is one lesson you will always remember so well done you, another step taken.
Regards
John BHT

[Paul Hannaby]

Perhaps at times like this discretion might be the better part of valour. I think I wouldn't have risked injury and found a safer piece of wood to turn!

By the way, I think the hose clip might be safer the other way round so the sticking out tail ends up trailing rather than leading - less chance of injury that way.

[Les Symonds]

Cheers BHT...thanks for that.


Paul....a very fair point about the tails and I agree with you. When the hose clip was set directly onto the vase the tails were trailing and I also covered them with gaffer tape. However, when I opened the hose clips up to allow for the extra thickness of the wooden chuck, they were working at the limit of their lengths and there were no tails to worry about.

Les