Author Topic: I've done candlesticks and apples...  (Read 9833 times)

Offline Bryan Milham

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I've done candlesticks and apples...
« on: April 14, 2013, 12:34:48 PM »
...but thought there had to be something else you could do with a Banksia Pod.

Topped & Bottomed with Black Walnut, a 10mm hole and I have a Vase?

230mm (9") high by 65mm (2½") at the shoulder.

Comments & Critiques as always please, and thanks for looking...
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 12:45:46 PM by dr4g0nfly »
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Offline Les Symonds

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Re: I've done candlesticks and apples...
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2013, 12:49:50 PM »
When you fill the vase with water, won't it run out through the holes?

I must admit that I've shunned the banksia nuts this time around, but that does look tempting to have a go at. What's it like getting a finish on the nut?
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Francesco Dibari

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Re: I've done candlesticks and apples...
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2013, 01:12:50 PM »
I've never worked banksia nut, but this seems to me a very good job, congratulations . :)

Offline bodrighywood

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Re: I've done candlesticks and apples...
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2013, 01:53:40 PM »
Nice use of the nuts, like this a lot  though I would perhaps make the foot a little wider personally. . I too have turned banksia......twice....not exactly something I wish to do again without appropriate clothing...such as a gas suit LOL.

Pete
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Offline Roderick Evans

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Re: I've done candlesticks and apples...
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2013, 02:06:16 PM »
Hi
I think the Black Walnut and Banksia Nut work really well together, the neck blends in lovely and the finish looks excellent.
For me personally I would prefer it without the foot,it seems to take the eye away from the rest of the vase, (If you scroll down the photo and stop at the top of the foot I think the form looks better without it ). Sorry to sound a bit negative on such an interesting project.
Regards
Rod
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Offline Bryan Milham

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Re: I've done candlesticks and apples...
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2013, 06:28:51 PM »
I call it a Vase, mainly because I can't think what else it might be and it's that sort of shape. It's a decorative object, not meant to hold anything, so not a weed-pot, for which it would be totally unstable. Yes the foot could be bigger, but I was looking for - delicate!

I too have turned banksia......twice....not exactly something I wish to do again without appropriate clothing...such as a gas suit LOL.

Pete,

I agree with you, Air Cleaner was on, Dust Extractor was on, Powered mask was being worn, and everything done up tight. They look great when done, but what a mess! I recommend at least the powered air mask for anyone wanting to turn one of these.

Rod,

I ask for C&C, so I expect the truth, nothing is worse than unmeant platitudes. Honesty is good.

Les,

Not sure if your joking so excuse me for explaining. The holes are where the seeds form, they don't go through to the centre. As for a finish. I get a good finish with the skew, then 320 through 600 grit and the buffing system ending in Carnubra brings out the shine nicely.

Francesco,

Having seen your work, any praise form you is worth having, thank you.
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Francesco Dibari

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Re: I've done candlesticks and apples...
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2013, 07:44:41 PM »


Francesco,

Having seen your work, any praise form you is worth having, thank you.

dr4g0nfly ... You're very kind, I'm just an apprentice ..  :-[ ..


Offline Jim

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Re: I've done candlesticks and apples...
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2013, 09:17:33 PM »
Stunning, this is the best turned item i have seen using banksia nut ...  ;)

arcos

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Re: I've done candlesticks and apples...
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2013, 11:38:11 PM »
Very pretty and lovely finish...

So, I have a question about the foot....

Previous comments suggest no foot or larger foot...

For my taste I think that both would work equally well.

For MY taste I would 'think' that a foot of equal dimensions to the neck would work well... Or is that just me?

WOuld a foot of equal diameter to the neck work for both look AND stability? Or, design wise, would it simply not look 'correct'?

Offline Bryan Milham

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Re: I've done candlesticks and apples...
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2013, 10:20:35 AM »
Arcos,

You are now thinking about design. If there were ‘Rules’ we would have a much easier time of turning but the first thing to happen would be someone would break them!

The one often quoted rule I can think of is the ‘Rule of Thirds’;

- the maximum/minimum diameter should be at the 1/3 – 2/3 position in relation to the height.
- The lid shoul be 1/3 of the height.
- the finial should be 1/3 of the height.
- the foot/top, should be 1/3 of the maximum diameter.
- etc

It works well and gives a pleasing ‘balance’ to the look of your work. But…

…even this is ‘wrong’, it’s based on the Golden Ratio, a figure of 1.618, where 0.618 approximates to 2/3. Google it, you’ll find lot’s of info, there are even rulers you can buy or designs for 3-legged dividers you can make to help work this out.

Again, this can be ignored and other mathematical ratios used, Pascal’s Triangle, the Fibonacci series etc.(and you thought Maths at school was a waste of time!), so pretty much it boils down to the use of uneven but balanced proportions.

The other things I try and stick with are;

- No long straight lines. So a fillet (small flat) between 2 curves is good, but a long flat would ‘generally’ look wrong. Look at the shape of the piece and you’ll see that there is a slow curve from shoulder to foot, at no point is there a  flat area.
- Any change must be defined. So the ‘Bead’ in the foot, (used to conceal the joint) does not flow/grow from the waist of the curve, it has sharp ‘defining’ cuts to delineate it from the waist. You’ll note that there is not an equivalent bead on the neck, it would have looked wrong.

Design is a personal thing. Two things I can suggest to you are;

- Look at ceramics, architectural items and other media see how they deal with curves and proportions, and,
- Buy a sketchbook and draw shapes, some from what you see, others that you think will work or you’d like to try turn

Doing this and you will soon start to see what ‘you’ like and don’t like in a shape and what does and doesn’t work.

So to answer your question, Would a foot of equal diameter to the neck work for both look AND stability? Or, design wise, would it simply not look 'correct'?
Yes, the foot could have been made wider, (where you say neck I assume you mean shoulder) but it may not have fitted the overall shape. I would have needed to lift the leg waist position and flare the curve to the foot sooner to get the proportions right. It defiantly would have improved the stability as well.

I was not working for ‘functionality’ in this piece ‘delicate elegance’ was the aim. It looks ‘right’ to me and my good lady loves it, but as in all things it is a personal thing. One lady hates it because she does not like Banksia, she does not see the form, just the holes, you can’t please everybody!

The last thought I’ll leave you with is honest critique helps you develop, it’s what I try to give to posted work, but it is ‘my’ opinion, no one else’s. Others are free to disagree and I am pleased when they do so, also the poster is free to dislike my opinion, that is his right as he turned it to his own design criteria.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 10:22:22 AM by dr4g0nfly »
Oh Lord, Lead me not into temptation…

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Offline woodndesign

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Re: I've done candlesticks and apples...
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2013, 01:41:45 AM »

Bryan tis a very good uses of a Banksia Pod, you've got the Black Walnut grain orientation spot on or could we say nailed ..   ;D ...

Dirty little  ....s  once past the husk an dust it's the seeds ..   :o ..  it most have found a home, what ever I'd made ...  ;D ..

Cheers   David

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Offline Bryan Milham

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Re: I've done candlesticks and apples...
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2013, 06:36:47 AM »
David,

Thanks for your thought's. Actually the grain orientations are like nothing else I've ever turned.

The Neck Flute is Faceplate (but small enough for a spindle gouge to cut), the Foot is a Spindle and the Banksia is 'Unique', everything grows out radially from the central core, so it's all end grain. Thankfully it's happy with a skew cutting it!

You're right though, it's been claimed. Rosemary - as soon as it came through the door.

However it has been seen and when I pull together the patience needed to clean up the workshop from the mess they make, I already have orders for 4 more.
Oh Lord, Lead me not into temptation…

...Oh who am I kidding, follow me, I know a shortcut!

arcos

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Re: I've done candlesticks and apples...
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2013, 11:40:42 AM »
Arcos,

You are now thinking about design. If there were ‘Rules’ we would have a much easier time of turning but the first thing to happen would be someone would break them!

The one often quoted rule I can think of is the ‘Rule of Thirds’;

- the maximum/minimum diameter should be at the 1/3 – 2/3 position in relation to the height.
- The lid shoul be 1/3 of the height.
- the finial should be 1/3 of the height.
- the foot/top, should be 1/3 of the maximum diameter.
- etc

It works well and gives a pleasing ‘balance’ to the look of your work. But…

…even this is ‘wrong’, it’s based on the Golden Ratio, a figure of 1.618, where 0.618 approximates to 2/3. Google it, you’ll find lot’s of info, there are even rulers you can buy or designs for 3-legged dividers you can make to help work this out.

Again, this can be ignored and other mathematical ratios used, Pascal’s Triangle, the Fibonacci series etc.(and you thought Maths at school was a waste of time!), so pretty much it boils down to the use of uneven but balanced proportions.

The other things I try and stick with are;

- No long straight lines. So a fillet (small flat) between 2 curves is good, but a long flat would ‘generally’ look wrong. Look at the shape of the piece and you’ll see that there is a slow curve from shoulder to foot, at no point is there a  flat area.
- Any change must be defined. So the ‘Bead’ in the foot, (used to conceal the joint) does not flow/grow from the waist of the curve, it has sharp ‘defining’ cuts to delineate it from the waist. You’ll note that there is not an equivalent bead on the neck, it would have looked wrong.

Design is a personal thing. Two things I can suggest to you are;

- Look at ceramics, architectural items and other media see how they deal with curves and proportions, and,
- Buy a sketchbook and draw shapes, some from what you see, others that you think will work or you’d like to try turn

Doing this and you will soon start to see what ‘you’ like and don’t like in a shape and what does and doesn’t work.

So to answer your question, Would a foot of equal diameter to the neck work for both look AND stability? Or, design wise, would it simply not look 'correct'?
Yes, the foot could have been made wider, (where you say neck I assume you mean shoulder) but it may not have fitted the overall shape. I would have needed to lift the leg waist position and flare the curve to the foot sooner to get the proportions right. It defiantly would have improved the stability as well.

I was not working for ‘functionality’ in this piece ‘delicate elegance’ was the aim. It looks ‘right’ to me and my good lady loves it, but as in all things it is a personal thing. One lady hates it because she does not like Banksia, she does not see the form, just the holes, you can’t please everybody!

The last thought I’ll leave you with is honest critique helps you develop, it’s what I try to give to posted work, but it is ‘my’ opinion, no one else’s. Others are free to disagree and I am pleased when they do so, also the poster is free to dislike my opinion, that is his right as he turned it to his own design criteria.

Hi Bryan

I was thinking more about the topped and bottomed with walnut as being similar dimensions rather than the shoulder.

Design is definitely a personal thing and, as you rightly say, there are no rules so, IMHO, you use the word "wrong" too many times in your post....

Not wrong, just different!  ;)

Straight is not a bad thing, just perhaps not 'en vogue' as far as design goes. Many ancient cultures produced, for example, straight vases or straight necked 'bud vase' types. Yes, agreed a lot were used to display stories as carvings or paintings but they were straight/cylindrical.