Author Topic: Where do the ideas come from?  (Read 9285 times)

thebowlerhattedturner

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Where do the ideas come from?
« on: March 01, 2011, 08:46:29 PM »
After just posting a comment about Andy's ash platter it got me thinking about where to get the ideas from. I know this has been broached before and one of the answers was "from things around you" but when I look at "things" nothing really grabs me and says make it in wood. As a production turner I stand 8 hours a day producing commercial stuff and bits and pieces but nothing "arty". I don't want to get into the old cherry of is is art or not but I struggle to come up with original ideas,yet every time I open a woodturning mag there always seems to be something new. Is this a foible of production turners or am I alone here? Don't get me wrong, I am happy with my abilities to earn a living (however sparse) at something I enjoy so much and I have made the odd "arty" bit the ideas just don't come thick and fast enough for me. I just need to look at Jo Winter's stuff on this forum to realise that my thought processes are just not up to it.
Can anyone out there fill in the blanks?
Regards
John

Andy Coates

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Re: Where do the ideas come from?
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2011, 10:47:04 PM »
Hello John, this is a good question. Sadly I don’t think there’s a definitive answer.

But I think there are clues which we can follow.

As you mentioned Jo, I’ll use him as an example and hope he doesn’t take offence. Of course he could come on and tell me I’m a million miles from the facts!

Jo is clearly not just a woodturner; he has other skills with wood which he is able to use in combination with turning to great and possibly unique ends. But that doesn’t tell us where he gets the ideas from, only that having had them he is able to bring them to fruition. If I had to guess at where Jo gets his ideas from I’d say the answer is a question he asks…”what if I did this?”

It’s an important question to ask if your aim is to find something new, or at least a new take on an existing idea, but it hides another important approach in the guise of a question, “what if I didn’t do this?” Not clear?

Take a bowl blank. Most of us take a bowl blank (and this is more apparent in individuals who have to buy the blank pre-prepared), look at it and say to ourselves, “I know, I’ll make a bowl”. I don’t think Jo Winter would do that; he’d say, “what if I don’t make a bowl? What could I do with this round blank of wood that won’t result in a bowl?” And from this attitude lots of innovative ideas have evolved.

There’s another (many others, in fact) approach, and that’s the one you’ve alluded to – the “look and be inspired” approach. Many turners quote references such as shells, flowers, seed pods, textures, feathers Etc., as being the foundation from which they build an idea and subsequent turning. They see a shape, a texture, a combination, and then go and replicate it, alter it, combine it in some more conventional piece of turnery, and the result is something apparently new and fresh. There are those that claim an idea is the basis – peace, fear, grief, joy, sanity, insanity, death, socialism, tyranny Etc., etc., and that the work produced is a reflection, representation, expression of this idea. Which in my humble and unqualified view is the only time you can ever call the resulting object “art”. Being different simply isn’t enough.

But as you say, not everybody has the facility to see and adapt in that manner.

So what can these people do if they do fancy a couple of hours not making bowls, candlesticks, or balusters, and don’t feel they have that “something” to spark an idea?

Firstly, they can forget utility. Don’t aim at making a “something” with an obvious use. Look at making something purely aesthetic, just an object that you hope you, and if you’re lucky, others, will find attractive. Or not. Because the other factor is not worrying what others think about what you make. Make it for you, not other turners, because if you do you’re almost guaranteed to be disappointed. Do it for yourself and the chances are you’ll enjoy the process, learn a few things along the way, maybe even have further ideas on other potentials which you can explore later.

So why not begin with a conventional bowl blank, forget the rules, forget convention, forget that you need something to put the Christmas nuts into, and just play with the blank. You might even sketch a few doodles first, play the “what if game” with pencil and paper first before you cut into the blank.

I suspect that for every one of these wonderful new ideas you see in magazines and online, there were half a dozen that never made it to the photograph stage – they ended up burnt or dumped, or put on a shelf to “think about” (I do this and then burn them later when the agony of the wasted wood has eased a little).

But whatever you do or think, don’t think you can’t. Because you can. It may mean that you have to discover new techniques and methods of doing things, it may mean that you get frustrated and dispirited, it may mean you toss the resulting down the bottom of the garden and swear a lot. But I’d bet that after a few days something clicks and you’ll want to try again.

And don’t forget, you’ve already mastered the turning techniques so you’re streets ahead of somebody with all the ideas but none of the skills to realise the idea.

So go on…take a bowl blank and think out of the box and stun us all. Or not. It doesn't matter actually. It's the doing that's important.

Offline woodndesign

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Re: Where do the ideas come from?
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2011, 11:58:46 PM »

John, A look round your website shows no sign of a lack of ideas..  ok, I too open a Magazine or go onto a forum and see work which makes one think, as to how or where has that person come up with the idea.  We could buy loads of books on the subject of design.. I know..   ???..   
Some ideas are just a simple form, but it changes with colouring, texturing or piercing, can be in cutting it up and reassembling differently.
Finding forms can be a small part of a bigger piece, a small detail of a newel, enlarged may make a vase or holllow form, I've heard it said a vehicles panels, wing, bonnet or boot in profile are all ideas.
As a last resort, look to pottery or glass ware, did wood ware come first anyway, so who's copying.
I like as to what Andy has said, all food for thought, I've been there, an am at the moment, a piece today made more lightwood, than fire wood..   :-[..   bang went the challenge piece for friday..    :'(...    we learn from it, I hope..  such a good Idea too...

David
"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times,"  By Dickens ''''

Offline Philip Greenwood

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Re: Where do the ideas come from?
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2011, 08:05:51 AM »
Hello John

I know how you feel at times when you look at the magazines and other turners work, i too would like to be more arty but its easy at times braking the rules sometimes, or thinking what other may say.

I will turn a piece and let the wood decide the size and shape depending on the grain and any other faults that become visible when turning, theses tend to become features then.

If colouring then thats a diffident storey i am experimenting with this and yes i do smile and when there sell the smile is even bigger.

Well back to work to see what i turn today.

Philip
« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 08:12:10 AM by Philip Greenwood »

Andy Coates

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Re: Where do the ideas come from?
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2011, 05:06:01 PM »
Good points, Philip. I should have thought to add a link to your website...just in case I bump up your bandwidth bill I'll leave it to you to add here. It would be most welcome.

For the rest of you I should perhaps add the following:

Philip has a a background in arts and sculpture, photography and design, and once came to my own club (twice) to give a two-part presentation on just this topic.It's fair to say that the responses were mixed, but I, and a notable number of others found the presentations fascinating and inspiring. I guess it all depends on your mindset...if you're open to new ideas you'd love it, if you're closed to new ideas and easily dismiss what you don't know as rubbish, then it's not for you.

I like to think mine's open. Atrophied, but open.

Andy Coates

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Re: Where do the ideas come from?
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2011, 05:12:33 PM »
Nearly forgot!

I had some spare time today, so VERY quickly produced this as a basic example of a notabowl...

10" ash bowl blank (no feather in this one so it was expendable), oak carbuncle, 24ct gold leaf, silver leaf, re-styled 3 1/16" copper brake pipe, spirit stains and laquer, copper worked with heat (in the open fire), hammer, micro grinding tools and files, and flamed to effect colour change.





The inspiration was from a tribal headress from (I think) Sri Lanka

thebowlerhattedturner

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Re: Where do the ideas come from?
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2011, 07:07:26 PM »
Well thankyou all for your input into this thread, hopefully it will give me some inspiration, it has certainly given me a small insight into the way some of you think about designs. I am still playing with the gold leaf and getting mixed results which are improving. I think I shall start incorporating this much more into pieces. (not newel posts) I also have a shed full of timber that needs to be converted soon so will look deeper and see what I can come up with. Perhaps I should leave the lid off of the sanding sealer pot for a while and see what happens! although I seem to remember doing that 20 years  ago, maybe that's my problem!! :-[
Regards
John

Offline BrianH

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Re: Where do the ideas come from?
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2011, 02:33:43 PM »
Well, everything seems to have been said already but I've got to have my twopennorth so here goes.
When you look in the magazine and hear yourself saying 'Wow, look at that' (whether you're thinking its crap or genius) do you then look at it some more intent on finding something you DO like about the crap piece and vice versa with the genius? Nothing can possibly be all bad or all good, can it?
I think going through this questionably crazy routine helps us to open our minds and actually see what we think is good and what we just don't. All these ideas are then, with no effort whatsoever, laid down within the brain before re-appearing, mixed with others and probably in a very different vein, and a 'new' design idea is born ......................Perhaps ::)
Brian

Offline Martin Lawrence

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Re: Where do the ideas come from?
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2011, 03:30:37 PM »
Hi John,

 I too was of a mind set that I can not have any original ides, but I was fortunate to spend a day with Philip Streeting and listen to thought processes and he explains above once someone helps you open the door to your mind you will be amazed at what come out and also what goes in from every day tings you see around you, once pointed in the right direction the every day things you see at the moment will be seen in a different light and provoke thought processes and idea's. If your club does not have anyone of this mind set then invite a demonstrator who does and ask them to make the demo/talk about this very subject, it is not something you can convey fully via a forum.

Cheers Martin.
Martin Lawrence

Offline BrianH

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Re: Where do the ideas come from?
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2011, 04:21:23 PM »
I love the idea within your last paragraph Phil. I would love to attend something like that.
Brian

Offline Roger Groom

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Re: Where do the ideas come from?
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2011, 09:32:11 PM »
Hi All
I have read this string with great interest, and have been involved in similar discussions on this site in the past. However, I am still of the opinion that creativity, design and art, are things that you are born with. Either you have them or you dont. I should imagine that some part of our brain is favoured with these qualities, or not. Where I partially agree with Phillip, that one can learn design and creativity, how far can it be taken. I would compare it to music and painting. A lot of us at school learnt to play the recorder, piano or trombone etc, to a level where we could play "sur la pont, D'avignon, or chopsticks etc, but how many of us went on to play the 1812 overture, without music in front of us. Not many. How many learnt to paint by numbers etc and then went on to paint a Mona Lisa. Not many. (there was most probably a better subject here but hey ho). There are oviously, in my mind, different levels of creativity and design and not many of us will go on to create a real masterpiece, try as we will. However I do not think that any of us, interested in the arty side of turning. will give up trying. I just do not think for most of us it will happen. Happy days.
Roger G

thebowlerhattedturner

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Re: Where do the ideas come from?
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2011, 10:07:08 PM »
Ahh Roger,
              it's not for the want of trying and I do see your point of view but I do believe that with guidance in directing trains of thought more can be achieved.As a tradesman all my life I have created (made) some interesting pieces and I don't want to blow my own trumpet or be self deprecating but some of them were very good according to the customers that purchased them but I have always been left with the feeling that design wise they could have been better. Or that the design was obvious. Look at the font that I made, a very nice piece but in my mind extremely obvious in design right down to the 12 crosses in the rim! I don't expect to make ground breaking pieces every day but I feel that I have a latent ability to do so but lack the tools mentally to work the design up, if you know what I mean. If I turned a bowl of any shape now and cut it up and reassembled it I would feel that I am trying to emulate ,I don't know,Marilyn Cambell for instance  and although I admire her work amongst others I do not want to be influenced by other's work but come up with something original of my own. I think this is one of the reasons why I have never had lessons from anyone as I do not want to be subconciously influenced,although I am always asking people how they do certain bits  and pieces but to me they are just technical questions. I am quite confident with my ability to copy other people's stuff and to me that is then just technical ability but where I seem to fall down is the thought behind the ideas. I think I am now beginning to repeat myself so I will stop here and if you are not clear about what I am on about then you are halfway to understanding my dilemma. ;D
Regards
John
BHT

Offline woodndesign

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Re: Where do the ideas come from?
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2011, 12:49:49 AM »
It is an interesting factor, how does any person come up with a unique idea or design, design, be it a building, vehicle, box for your cereals or a bottle, all fall under what that items purpose has to fulfill, it has guidelines which it has to comply with and more oftena size, ideas, think tanks and computer programs all come into play, has the design been done before, most have, how could it be altered, the case with next years model of car, detail changes/revamp so it's new ... but it still complies with regulations and use.

When it comes to creativity in design, it's a thing we are born with, it depends on us getting into the right side of our brain, some do this better than others, it is or can be just not thinking, let the mind go, a drawing as to what it is you wish to make, or straight from the wood as some call it letting the 'wood dictate' or it's as with any design, a development, constant change to the piece or the draw ideas, taken from something seen, no end of magazines pictures, buildings, views and not only turned work offer shapes to form ideas..  we come back to how are these translated into that unique an personal form,  practise develops and makes perfect, is it just that..   ??? ..

David

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times,"  By Dickens ''''

Offline hughie

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Re: Where do the ideas come from?
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2011, 12:31:53 PM »
Hmm, good question. I have a archive of bowls pics that have been collected from the net over several years. This includes sculptured bowls, segmented bowls etc and I flick thorugh it from time to time as away of firing up the grey matter of inspiration and it works quite well.

Offline woodndesign

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Re: Where do the ideas come from?
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2011, 12:23:35 AM »

 :D ..  Phil, excellent, down to earth and so true, we were educated along set lines and standards, we were however still lucky then to get woodwork, metalwork, technical drawing an not just art, there was also gardening ... I had been good at french, but by the 3rd yr had to give it up for science ..  :( ..

That looked to be TED 2006, what, if anything has happened since then.  From what I hear from my sister's children, it's a case of is it, Technical Design, design something simple (maybe a clock) working out marketing and selling it, without any creativity or creating it, most of that work is IT based to fill yet another shrinking market.

If we watch what are some of the excellent turners, who post excellent and unique designs, even we can still learn and broaden our ideas further, what's it ..  dogs an tricks ...   :-[ ..

David
"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times,"  By Dickens ''''