PAT testing

[oldfern]

Ryedale Woodturners have been considering whether it is worth us buying a PAT testing kit, and getting someone in the club trained as a tester. We sell second hand tools through the club, some of us make table lamps, and we allow the public to use electrical equipment at our demonstrations and open evenings. I wonder if any other clubs have gone down this route or have any useful experience?  There are a lot of different courses on offer - which one is necessary to allow us to do what we want.

[Richard_C]

This, from HSE, might help you with some of the questions.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg236.htm

And this, although not an 'official' source, seems sensible.

https://www.pat-testing-training.net/articles/making-and-selling-lamps.php

I wonder if gettiing a club member certified is helpful.  Imagine I make a table lamp, the voluntary club tester tests it on a club night but makes a genuine error.  Later an end customer of mine gets a nasty shock, or worse.  Who do they sue?  What liability cover does the volunteer, or the club, have?  Why would anyone volunteer unless that were clear?  Thinking aloud, I wonder if a hands-on club night might be preceeded by a tick box visual inspection of the lathe and would that be sufficient?  The club can demonstrate that it has taken reasonable care in a low risk environment and (presumably) unmodified lathes in the state they were when manufactured.

This is just thnking aloud though, maybe someone with detailed knowledge of club liability and insurance can weigh in.

[Paul Hannaby]

Anyone doing PAT testing should be "competent". That doesn't mean they need to be a qualified electrician but in the event of an issue, you may be asked to prove their competence. I do PAT testing and would consider myself competent due to previous experience/training etc.

You could test your own appliances but you will probably find the existing club insurance doesn't cover a club member to carry out that activity so you might need to consider additional cover (and cost).

Visual inspection alone is not sufficient for class 1 appliances (such as a lathe) but the frequency of PAT testing can vary depending on the conditions of use.

If the club is made responsible for the electrical safety testing/certification, the club would be sued and for a standard association run by committee, all the committee members would be jointly liable for any debts incurred by the club.

[oldfern]

Thanks Paul. Food for thought.

[oldfern]

Thanks for the links Richard. And your scenarios.

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

Probably cheaper in the long run to get them tested by someone outside of the club.

[davidbrac]

Tab le lamps are a nightmare, I have had a run in with the local trading standards and ben told to stop selling then unless they are UKCE certified. This is a lot more than just PAT testing The links that Richard posted are good information on this subject.

[Richard_C]

I wonder if ....

While looking for something entirely different online I came accross "Bottle Lamp Kits" - around £13 a pair and available with ES and SES bnulb holders.  Essentially its a plug, inline switch, total c.2m cable leading to a side cable entry moulded bulb holder with a stopper on the bottom to fit the bottle of your choice.  All asembled as one thing.  Amazon do a few brands, claiming to be CE approved (which I am pretty sure is still valid post Brexit, UK approved runs alongside but hasn't yet replaced it).  An Ebay search comes up with a bemusing range of  items and prices, a rabbit hole you can disappear down.  Maybe local hardware shops sell them as well, I've not seen them before.

It's not as elegant as running wires through a table lamp, but is fuss free as long as you make a 16 - 19mm (bottle neck sized) hole in the wooden item, maybe 40 or 50mm deep but can be 'blind'.

I wonder if you had one assembled for display purposes, but sold it as the lamp base plus the kit in the bag in which it came - all the customer has to do it unwrap it and push it in - you avoid any regulatory risk. 

At £13 a pair, £6.50 each, they are a lot less expensive than many of the kits sold to woodturners and there is much less work to do.  .I've never sold a lamp but ones I have made for my own and family use would have looked fine with the bottle kit, the wire just hangs down the back.  You wouldn't win a club competition with one perhaps, but for those who sell it might be a good way to reduce liability.

Thoughts?

[Paul Hannaby]

Selling an electric lamp involves more than just the electrical safety.