Help needed : wood too dry ?

[Ayoung1969]

Hi all,
I’m relatively new to wood turning and have an issue with a piece of wood I’m hoping someone can advise me on.
I bought a bowl blank to turn but it seems extremely dry and the shavings are coming out like dust and leaving huge tear-outs (see pictures).  I’ve tried sharpening my gouges and turning up the speed on the lathe but I can’t stop the tear-outs happening, and they’re huge, not like a normal one you’d expect to see if your tools are a little dull.

I’ve tried CA glue to stabilise it as well as resin and rotten wood hardener but nothing works and all subsequent layers are dry, dusty and full of holes.

Any advice gratefully received.

Regards,
Adam

[John Plater]

Hello Adam,
It is very difficult to offer advice from a static photograph without seeing the problem happen for real. You seem to have covered the likely "mechanical" solutions with sharp tools and alternative lathe speeds. What is missing is seeing you at the machine and the way the tool is presented and the type of cut being attempted. You also have covered the likelihood of it being a faulty piece of wood by trying to stabilise it before turning. Again, this possibility is difficult to judge from a static photograph. I assume that the blank is a piece of elm. In my experience elm is not necessarily the easiest of woods but can usually be relied upon to leave an acceptable finish from the tool, unless that is, it is not completely sound timber. It looks like the spring growth is crumbling away rather than cutting cleanly which suggests that your timber has started to decay. A couple of years ago I did some pieces from similar material but felt that I needed to persist with it as it had some gorgeous markings which made the effort worthwhile. My approach was to rough turn a shape, then apply several coats of cellulose sealer thinned by 50% and finish turn using a shear scraper kept very sharp. The sealer is very penetrative, stabilising the timber behind the cut I was making thus giving support to the grain fibres being cut. Shear scraping is very time consuming but quite gentle on the timber in my opinion.
ATB John

[seventhdevil]

very old elm like you have there can do this i've found but it is often tool presentation rather than any other fault.

if the wood is being scraped off then you see what happens. only when you slice away the timber can you get a satisfactory finish...

[Ayoung1969]

Thank-you for the replies John Plater and seventhdevil.
I’ll go away and work on my technique as I mainly rely on pulling cuts with a gouge rather than pushing & using the bevel because I can’t control the depth with that cut.
I’ll also have a look at cellulose sealer.

Regards,
Adam

[Bill21]

I was tasked with turning some turning some 400 year old oak cut from some beams during a house renovation. The timber was as you would expect very dry. I had luckily heard of a technique for dealing with difficult woods some months earlier. It involves making up a mixture of 50/50 washing up liquid and water and soaking the timber in the solution for several weeks. It’s then removed and turned after drip drying. This worked extremely well and the small amount of soap retained in the wood acts as a lubricant. Finishing was no problem but in fairness I did use an oil finish which may be more suitable for this technique than some others. Give it a try, it really works. Just ensure the solution fully penetrates the timber. Just buy the cheapest washing up liquid you can get, the wood won’t mind!

[Les Symonds]

... 400 year old oak ... as you would expect very dry. 

I just don't go with this. Oak and any other timber put into any environment will adjust its moisture content to match that of its surroundings. Most modern homes have a moisture content of 10% to 12%, and it doesn't matter if you keep wood in them for 400 hours or 400 years, it will be the same moisture content as the room that it sits in. As Steve (Seventhdevil) said, get your tool technique right. Use a shearing cut and if your tool-handling skills are not yet up to it, then practice, practice, practice. Washing up liquid is not a short cut! Soaking seasoned timber in water for several weeks is just about the weirdest thing I've heard of.

One other thing to consider......all trees absorb minerals out of the ground through the water that they capiliarise. When timber is processed and dried, those mineral-rich fluids start to dry-out and eventually the minerals begin to solidify, or even to calcify. In many respects, this is the very earliest stages of fossilisation and it is why very old timber is sometimes said to be like stone. Washing up liquid does not reverse this process, but whereas several weeks of saturation will soften the remaining, uncalcified wood fibres, it will also do untold damage through the uncontrolled expansion and subsequent contraction of the wood.

Forget Fairy Liquid....work on your tool technique. Seek out a fellow turner who knows how to perform a shearing cut and learn from that turner.

Les Symonds.

[bodrighywood]

I agree with Les on this. never heard of wood beng 'too dfry' before. Every piece of wood you ougt on the lathe neds to be treated individually as different woods will retain moistire indifferent ways and to diffferent levels. Keep your tools sharp and if you are getting tear out as bad as that depicted here then you sort ot the tools and the angles. Very punky, rotten wood can bde a problem but that has nothing to do ith the amount of moisture in it. This pieceof silver birch was so soft I could literally cut it with my thumb nails but for various reasons decided to go for it. No CA glue, no sealer  just sharp tools and very careful use of the tools. Sorry but kit all boils down to jusing the rifght tools the right way


Pete

[Bill21]

I don’t really care what “you go with” Les, the wood I was given was extremely dry and soaking it in the mixture I mentioned did the trick. I would suggest to the OP to give it a try, what have you got to lose?

https://www.awgb.co.uk/awgbforum/index.php?topic=2403.0

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/washing-up-liquid.35455/