Plagiarism

[Paul Hannaby]

I think this discussion is a copy of a previous one on this forum! 

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

I have read this thread (and probably the one Paul refers to) with interest. And so far I have kept my head down and my tongue firmly between my teeth. It is well know that in an art or craft such as ours there are no new shapes or curves, but possibly the order  and quantity of such shapes when applied to a piece may well determine some area of exclusivity. Now I daresay the only way that people can be exclusive these days is through decoration. Pete and Mo's pieces are a prime example, although Pete I have to point out that many years ago before you came on the scene I did do a pencil pot with a fish painted on the side, but, and here is the rub, I never took a picture of it, it was in the days before digital cameras and I sold it at a craft fair, I can't remember which one or who the customer was. But this surely cannot be classed as plagarism because you had no idea that I did that piece. And as for the saying that is can be made cheaper and less well exactly the opposite is the case where Pete and Mo are concerned, mine was a one off and to be honest it was a bit rubbish (probably a lot rubbish actually)it was in my early days of turning. Pete and Mo's work now is so much better than that piece I produced(I am now glad I don't have a picture of it)and so to all intents and purposes they can claim their's as an original design. But I bet that if you go back a few hundred years you would find a woodturner with a passion for fish or flowers that felt the need to decorate one of his pieces.Wasn't it the Chinese artists that delicately carved a pot just to hold paint brushes? Things like this have been going on for thousands of years and will continue to happen.I think the most important thing is that turners are making these things and perpetuating the craft that we all love so much. Incidentally I think in my woodturning journey I have only come up with one really original idea, and that was piercing a message into a piece using morse code.But I could be wrong.  ...---... 

[bodrighywood]

You are right John in fact much of what we do is influenced by oriental designs in creamics and other media. For me though there is a difference between being in fluenced by other work and actually copying. Classic example of what annoys me is things like this. A few years ago we were doug a show and there was one other turner there. They were selling mostly treen of varying qualities. I make ear ring stands in a way that at the time I hadn't seen anyone else do (sure someone somewhere did mind LOL) The other turner was wandering around looking at the other crafters work and lo and behold the next day turned up at his stall with half a dozen stands exactly the same as the ones that we make. He had gone home and made them when he saw the ones we were selling were popular. I bit my toingue. Mo is a little more forthcoming than me LOL. If he had asked first I would probably have said fine but perhaps for another show not this one.

Pete

[Bill21]

To move slightly off topic. There is a well known turner that has made a long series of a particular item that he sells to make a living. He starts by actually making the blank by combining Burr wood with coloured resin. He sells the blanks from time to time. He advertises and displays his work, sometimes for sale, in many different places. His work has been much copied but not nearly as well in most cases. Nothing too unusual there, except he has had to stop some interaction with people on some sites because at least one person has become abusive because he’s declined to describe how he makes them! There are some strange people out there.

[Wood spinner]

I made a bowl and someone else did as well and the Romans , typical 

[Twisted Trees]

All this talk of plagiarism isn't sitting too well with me at the moment... I am doing a production run of exactly similar items copies of each other and an original piece of stoneware, shan't bother crediting the originator he has been dead a few thousand years so probably won't contest it 

[Bill21]

Agreed, not woodwork but I made these a few years back. Who knows who came up with the design, I just like the shape!

[michaelb]

Good artists copy, great artists steal.” It’s a quote that's often attributed to Pablo Picasso, and has famously inspired the likes of Steve Jobs.

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

Ok now we have decided we can copy I need to now who makes the most money 'cos I am going to copy you!

[bodrighywood]

That's left me off the hook then. Any turners we know with rolls royces?

Pete

[Twisted Trees]

Ok now we have decided we can copy I need to now who makes the most money 'cos I am going to copy you!

Hmm want to make money? think you are in the wrong trade... My dad was wise, he told me never make anything, if your hands are busy you have no time to earn money.

[michaelb]

That's left me off the hook then. Any turners we know with rolls royces?


 Have a couple of copies that get me from  A to B 4 wheels air conditioning with the windows opened  Named it Rolls Canhardley  the old ones are the best .

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

Of course there is the other end of the spectrum that has not been mentioned. There is a particular  series of objects, they are not wood that stem from the middle ages (or earlier) that I am trying to copy. I know the techniques that were originally used and the materials. I wish to use different(modern) materials and a slightly different technique, but the end result should be similar.......However, try as I might I cannot get it right and until I do, and until my results look as good as the originals I cannot show them off.(or wish too)But it is very frustrating.  So although it will be unashamedly a copy of style to achieve the results I want (eventually) and could I suppose be classified as plageurism, if the original craftsman has been dead for over a thousand years does that count?

[Twisted Trees]

if the original craftsman has been dead for over a thousand years does that count?

Similar to what I am cutting at the moment, the original is over 3000 years old, no idea if it counts or not. IF the original craftsman takes me to court I will admit I stole the design idea, though obviously like yourself the materials and method I have had to work out for myself, so I hope the judge will take that into consideration .

[bodrighywood]

I hope not as many of the pieces I make are based on chinese and japanese ceramics of varying shapes. I Think the phrase 'in the style of' covers those situations. Be iterested in what you are trying to emjulate John (not to copy you understand) or is it a secret.

Pete