Clubs restarting?

[Wooddust]

To be honest most disclaimers are not worth the paper they are written on. It just makes some people have a warm fuzzy feeling, that they have done something.

An example of what I mean is all tickets for motorsport events say  MOTOR RACING IS DANGEROUS AND SPECTATORS ATTENDING THIS TRACK DO SO ENTIRELY AT THEIR OWN RISK. legally it means nothing.

Good to know. I note you say “most” though, so which in your legal opinion may be of help to us?

I am not a lawyer but have done legal courses for work.  Didn't mean the company I worked for didn't put up notices saying "you are present here entirely at your own risk etc" just that we were aware It didn't really mean anything.

As has already been pointed out the only way you would really know is if it went to court. Same with any contract really.

[Paul Hannaby]

 I have today received an email from Zurich Insurance reminding our Club should pay their insurance buy 1st April to ensure cover will continue in a posting by the AWGB Chairman on this thread he said there were questions they were waiting to be answered by Zurich we need some clarity on this as soon as possible.
                                               Regards John

The questions I referred to are more of a list of frequently asked questions to assist clubs in the future. They don't relate to the specifics of the current renewal but I understand the statement in the policy on cover of transmissible viruses is clear and unambiguous.

[Bill21]

Anyone have any updates on the topic?

[burywoodturners]

We have paid ours and I have read the policy, it is clear that Zurich will not accept claims re garding COVID beleived to be a reuslt of going to a club meeting.

On the restart we have problems of or own as the venue we used is no longer available and none of the village hall round here will return calls as they are closed!

Ron

[John D Smith]

Hi Ron Sorry to hear that I am sure you will find somewhere the problem how near to your old Hall Good luck

                                      Regards John

[Bill21]

We have equipment stored at our venue which needs to be covered by insurance. If it wasn’t for that I would suggest declining to renew the insurance until such time as the club restarts.

If clubs do restart without having the covid issue resolved I wonder how many will want to continue as committee members if it leaves them open to possible compensation claims?

[David Buskell]

Bill21's comment about volunteers for the committee does bring back to mind the discussion about creating your club as a Company Limited by Guarantee. Members liability is limited to £1 not unlimited as in the present situation. A few clubs have gone down this route in the past but I would suggest it might not be a bad idea to look at this option again. I certainly will be encouraging my club to do so.

[Bill21]

Thanks for that David, food for thought.  Thank you for mentioning it.

[Paul Hannaby]

There are several things to take into consideration and also worth bearing in mind is that by becoming a company, it must have directors and the directors then have legal responsibilities and liabilities that didn't apply to an association...

[David Buskell]

As Paul says, there are many things to consider if you wish to go  down the Company limited by Guarantee route. Choosing the initial members and Directors being one of them.

You would have to prepare accounts and file them at Companies House. This means an annual expense. Against that, the individual members of your club are not exposed to unlimited liability as they are now.

Creating the company is not a major expense, but you would have to have a new constitution. Check out West Midlands Woodturners who have already gone down the Ltd by Guarantee route.

BTW Paul should be able to help  any club considering this as on 9th July 2012, the AWGB was registered as a Company limited by Guarantee.The constitution run to 55 pages so it is not a quick read!

[Paul Hannaby]

As Paul says, there are many things to consider if you wish to go  down the Company limited by Guarantee route. Choosing the initial members and Directors being one of them.

You would have to prepare accounts and file them at Companies House. This means an annual expense. Against that, the individual members of your club are not exposed to unlimited liability as they are now.

Creating the company is not a major expense, but you would have to have a new constitution. Check out West Midlands Woodturners who have already gone down the Ltd by Guarantee route.

BTW Paul should be able to help  any club considering this as on 9th July 2012, the AWGB was registered as a Company limited by Guarantee.The constitution run to 55 pages so it is not a quick read!

On correction to the above - the members aren't exposed to any liability, the club committee members are. Perhaps as they are the ones who should be managing the club and its financial affairs, that's the way it should be!

Second correction - I'm no expert on this so better you ask our Treasurer!

[David Buskell]

Thanks for pointing that mistake about liability. It does seem the committee members are primarily liable.

There's a useful summary about unincorporated associations here:

https://www.myerssolicitors.co.uk/the-law-of-clubs-they-can-be-tricky/

[John D Smith]

Thank you Paul & David this all makes very interesting reading I wonder how many Cubs/Members are aware of this maybe a bulletin could be put in the next issue of Revolutions and the next news email.

                         Regards John

[David Buskell]

I have to confess that Cheam looked at switching to the Ltd status but our committee dithered and the moment got lost in the COVID lockdowns. I guess the idea may be revived by the new committee, when we can have an AGM.

[Bill21]

I’ve just been made aware of this as another possible option?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charitable_incorporated_organisation