Clubs restarting?

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

 I agree with John (BHT) this public liability no cover ref COVID 19 with the insurance is in my opinion a big issue and this could be a very big problem if someone try's to claim from a Club I have asked for guidance from the AWGB and the answer I received it is up to each Club to do their own "RISK ASSESSMENT" this issue needs very careful consideration it could cost clubs and even Committee members a Fortune.
                                            Regards John

I am afraid that in this case a risk assessment may not be the answer. As club officers we need the comfort that we are insured otherwise the risk of being sued for all that we own (and possibly losing) is too great for me to contemplate opening the club again. Club officers need to have that protection.

[bodrighywood]

Have to agree John,
a risk assessment has nolegal standing, unless you don't have one then it becomes a problem. All it does is shopw that you are being responsible and aware odf any problems and with something like Covid I don't think you can assess risk as there are far too many variables that the clubs would have no influence on including peoples behaviour.


Pete

[John D Smith]

Hi Pete & John,
                     I know the AWGB cannot give advice on Insurance matters but the Risk Assessment was what they said to me
 I agree there is always the chance of someone saying they caught Covid at a club meeting and sue the Club and Committee members Who can afford to be in that situation this needs to be looked at by some experts so come on the AWGB please instigate some sort of check on where we stand and see what advice Experts can give us.

                                                     Regards John

[bodrighywood]

The only people who I would have thought could give sensible advice would be whoever the clubs are insured with?

Pete

[burywoodturners]

With the COVID numbers going down, athough with some way to go, are any of the clubs making plans for the restart? We are in a difficult position as we have to find a new venue. With some committee members without a computer, some can only get Zoom whilst others can only get Microsoft Teams, digital meetings are not possible. So what about demos, and other considerations? We may be able to meet outside in a month  or two (Boris permitting) and that may be close to the predicted times for restrictions to be lifted.

All questions and no answers, over a year since he last meeting and I am, along with lots of other people, getting frustated!
Ron

[John D Smith]

Hi Pete,
           I would agree with you and I understand from our area rep. that is something they may be looking at lets hope there is something  happening with that.
                                               Regards John

[Paul Hannaby]

It has always been a condition of the insurance policy that risk assessments are carried out from the H&S angle. I disagree that it has no legal standing. The existence of a risk assessment shows that the club officers have assessed any risks they have identified and it records what actions they either have taken or suggest is taken to mitigate the risk. This may provide evidence that the actions that were carried out (or not) were "as far as is reasonably practicable". There are definitions of sorts as to what is "reasonably practicable" and what isn't.

Equate the above scenario to the risks and mitigating actions relating to Covid and in my opinion, you would be on the right track.

It was put to me by an insurance agent that for anyone to bring a successful claim against the policy holder, they would need to prove negligence. Failing to take adequate precautions could undoubtedly be construed as negligent but taking the right course of action in identifying, assessing and minimising risks for any scenario has to be the best defence against any allegation of negligence.

Yes, you are correct that the AWGB are unable to offer advice on the specifics of any insurance policy. However, we are currently working on a list of common questions and answers (from the insurers) which may help but if you want further clarification, the insurers are the people to ask.

[Bill21]

Covid-19 has certainly added unwanted complication to what should normally be fairly simple safety considerations for woodturning clubs. We normally only need to think about things like ensuring members don’t get hit by flying pieces of wood and keeping the fire exits clear.

[Wooddust]

In reality, anybody wishing to sue a club for catching covid whilst attending a meeting would have to prove they actually caught it at the meeting.

It doesn't mean we shouldn't look (and document) at the risks a meeting may have, in regards to COVID.

[turningal]

In reality, anybody wishing to sue a club for catching covid whilst attending a meeting would have to prove they actually caught it at the meeting.

It doesn't mean we shouldn't look (and document) at the risks a meeting may have, in regards to COVID.

As the chairman of a local club,I think  the committee would also need to prove that they had taken all reasonable steps to ensure that members would not catch COVID 19. Perhaps some sort of disclaimer in addition to documenting what steps the committee had taken?

[Bill21]

I’ve been in conversation elsewhere about this and one insurer for a venue has suggested that provided reasonable precautions are taken they would address any claims in the unlikely event the claimant could prove that they caught covid at the venue and that the organisers were negligent.

I have in addition seen a disclaimer online like this one that may possibly be of use as well?

https://www.bwfc.co.uk/siteassets/image/galleries/training-22.01.20/liability-waivers-covid-19-venue-website.pdf

[John D Smith]

 I have today received an email from Zurich Insurance reminding our Club should pay their insurance buy 1st April to ensure cover will continue in a posting by the AWGB Chairman on this thread he said there were questions they were waiting to be answered by Zurich we need some clarity on this as soon as possible.
 
                                               Regards John

[Wooddust]

To be honest most disclaimers are not worth the paper they are written on. It just makes some people have a warm fuzzy feeling, that they have done something.

An example of what I mean is all tickets for motorsport events say  MOTOR RACING IS DANGEROUS AND SPECTATORS ATTENDING THIS TRACK DO SO ENTIRELY AT THEIR OWN RISK. legally it means nothing. 

[Bill21]

To be honest most disclaimers are not worth the paper they are written on. It just makes some people have a warm fuzzy feeling, that they have done something.

An example of what I mean is all tickets for motorsport events say  MOTOR RACING IS DANGEROUS AND SPECTATORS ATTENDING THIS TRACK DO SO ENTIRELY AT THEIR OWN RISK. legally it means nothing.

Good to know. I note you say “most” though, so which in your legal opinion may be of help to us?

[Twisted Trees]

Good to know. I note you say “most” though, so which in your legal opinion may be of help to us?

Only the ones where a judge has ruled on it, all can be challenged. I have no idea how anyone can claim for Covid infection though as we are all personally responsible for masking up washing hands and keeping distance, just a bit more patience needed, I am personally unsure if / when I will return to a club night, as freedom of movement opens up I will be choosy and cautious in how I widen my circle, first in will be grand children fellow woodturners are down the list from there.