Author Topic: critiques  (Read 10114 times)

Offline bodrighywood

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Re: critiques
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2019, 04:38:31 PM »
I am blaming you for today's dog bowl with the paper thin base....  fire will be lit tonight. ;)

Don't burn it. Turn the bottom away altogether and you can use the part left in a variety of ways. Waste not want not LOL

Pete
Turners don't make mistakes, they have design opportunities

Offline The Bowler Hatted Turner

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Re: critiques
« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2019, 05:53:35 PM »
 ;D ;D ;D You turned it not me!!

Offline Twisted Trees

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Re: critiques
« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2019, 06:08:22 PM »
;D ;D ;D You turned it not me!!

I know  ;D today was just one of those days when it was just not cutting right, just amused me that I read your dog bowl comment, thought yep done that... then did it again today!  ::)
TT, AKA Pete, but that name is taken :-)

Offline Wood spinner

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Re: critiques
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2019, 06:36:31 PM »
My comments on critiques or posting images of work are this:-
In the unlikely event that images of a 3rd party are posted  no form of critique is acceptable, that person did not post their own work so you shouldn't post it either.
If you post images of your own work you should expect a critique whether you want it or not, if you do not want your work talked about don't post images of it.
If you feel the need to comment on another person's work do so politely, an abrupt one or two word answer is not acceptable in actual fact it is downright rude.
If you are serious about critiqueing work ,for everything that is pointed out to be wrong a positive or constructive comment should be left. So for instance instead of just telling someone they have turned a dog bowl (which we have all done in the past)tell the person that you prefer to see a "nice continuous curve which in fact is easier to produce rather than flat bottomed straight sided work." And I have to disagree with burywoodturners, yes it is not nice to have a piece looked at with no comments left but the old saying of"if you cannot say something nice say nothing at all" should stand. Some pieces beg a comment and others do not warrant it. If a piece does not attract comments it is then up to the person that posted it to ask for them (and then brace themselves!!)
Above all else, politeness costs nothing, if you cannot be polite do not bother commenting.

I find that comment somewhat harsh , A new timid turner would probably be put off by it , The AWGB art trying to promote woodturning not frighten people away .

Offline The Bowler Hatted Turner

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Re: critiques
« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2019, 11:04:34 PM »
Not intended to be harsh, and apologies if it came over like that, what was probably lost in the translation was that your work will be critiqued but the critique should be constructive not destructive. But I stand by what I said, if you do not wish your work to be commented on don't post it, why else would you post an image of something you have made? If you took it to the pub to show your mates you would expect them to say something about it wouldn't you? On woodturning forums we are doing the same thing but hopefully from an educated and informed (and sober :D) perspective. But we should never lose sight of a persons length of experience so perhaps when an image is posted you should say how experienced you are at turning.(Although some will be able to tell just by looking at the turning)

Offline Paul Hannaby

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Re: critiques
« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2019, 11:55:30 PM »
I would prefer someone to post a photo of their work and request no critique than not to post at all so I think they should have the right to choose.

If you read the sub-heading for the gallery, it already says "please state if you require a constructive critique" and it has done so for several years! Obviously, virtually nobody seems to check if someone has asked for a critique before wading in!

Keep the suggestions coming...

Offline Twisted Trees

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Re: critiques
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2019, 12:44:00 AM »
I would prefer someone to post a photo of their work and request no critique than not to post at all so I think they should have the right to choose.

If you read the sub-heading for the gallery, it already says "please state if you require a constructive critique" and it has done so for several years! Obviously, virtually nobody seems to check if someone has asked for a critique before wading in!

Keep the suggestions coming...

I see what you are saying Paul, it would be a shame if say a new turner posted a picture with a flaw that could be corrected with some simple advice and none was offered, but they should have the right to post and not get comments.

I stand by my Honest, Fair, and Tactful simplified list with helpful getting wrapped up in fair.

I am capable of knocking out 100 production pieces that are visibly the same, I am also capable of creating a one off piece that is stunning original and pleasing, then there are days like today when all I do is create poorly patterned firewood.

I mostly like to look at the gallery for stealing design ideas, but if I critique in future I will double check it has been asked for, and try to be positive but honest. 
TT, AKA Pete, but that name is taken :-)

Offline The Bowler Hatted Turner

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Re: critiques
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2019, 08:23:58 AM »
Twisted Trees yes they should have the right to post and not get comments but you know that in this day and age people will either not read or not adhere to the rule. I stand by my previous comments.

Offline willstewart

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Re: critiques
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2019, 09:30:58 AM »
All good ideas - club comments from people who have held the piece are particularly helpful.

But my sixpence worth would focus on two ideas:-

1 - distinguish between the design and the fabrication. I tend to do experimental pieces that I may lack the skill to do as perfectly as I would like first time anyway, but I still welcome comments on whether more effort on this design is worthwhile!

2 - I have noticed since doing woodturning (I have done other woodwork for many years) that turners tend to place very great emphasis on fabrication details that matter little to final users.  We all (including me) tend to feel the centre of a bowl base for example, and some people worry a lot about chucking points being visible, even if they are just a nice neat depression in the base that the final user will think fine!  So perhaps selling is the best test - could AWGB do online auctions?!

Offline Twisted Trees

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Re: critiques
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2019, 10:26:29 AM »
AWGB online auctions wouldn't work for two reasons.

  • Woodturners homes are already full of turned items
  • I along with many other turners are design thieves, we see it, touch it, then make our own version

I am not a professional turner, but I do like my workshop to be self funding. Most of what I sell is not artistic in any way, and I would have no desire to upload photo's of it here. I am giving my workshop a makeover at the moment, new extraction, new lathe, all new cabinets, 95% funded by crappy light pulls that take moments to make, use scraps, and sell by the truck load once you find the outlets.


TT, AKA Pete, but that name is taken :-)

Offline bodrighywood

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Re: critiques
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2019, 10:28:34 AM »
Design is always going to be a matter of personal taste to some extent so easy to critique as long as it is made clear that it is personal opinion. Quality of workmanship however is a bit more specific and where a lot of the problems arise as we all make things that we are proud of initially but on reflection, or critique notice aren't as good as we thought. I do agree that first hand critique is far better than online which is based on a photograph.

Pete
Turners don't make mistakes, they have design opportunities

Offline The Bowler Hatted Turner

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Re: critiques
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2019, 12:33:58 PM »
Perhaps if an experimental piece or a piece still in construction was posted and the person that posted it said as much or mentioned how long thy had been turning or I only get to turn however often ,then those commenting will have a better idea of the standard to expect.
As a professional turner, ie one who earns all of his income from turning I should be expected to turn out good quality work. Which I like to think I do. However something else that has to be taken into consideration is where is your work sold and for how much. Certain parts of the country will attract a lower rate of pay than others but the production costs are still virtually the same, so the choice then may be to produce more  in a shorter time and sell them cheaper. In that situation a critique of a person's production woud be completely different to a critique of the same persons special or one off.

Offline Paul Hannaby

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Re: critiques
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2019, 12:41:31 PM »
AWGB online auctions wouldn't work for two reasons.

  • Woodturners homes are already full of turned items
  • I along with many other turners are design thieves, we see it, touch it, then make our own version

I am not a professional turner, but I do like my workshop to be self funding. Most of what I sell is not artistic in any way, and I would have no desire to upload photo's of it here. I am giving my workshop a makeover at the moment, new extraction, new lathe, all new cabinets, 95% funded by crappy light pulls that take moments to make, use scraps, and sell by the truck load once you find the outlets.

Perhaps an understandable assumption if your main line is light pulls but the last online auction held by the AWGB was extremely successful and some pieces were sold for 4 figure sums. There is another online auction starting next week and we are hoping that will be equally successful given the provenance of the pieces for sale. Take a look at www.the-saleroom.com from Tuesday the 2nd of July.

For something like an online auction to work, there has to be a selection of lots which are going to appeal to serious buyers and collectors.

Bringing this back to the critique process, I have handled and inspected all of the pieces which will be in the auction and exhibition and probably subconsciously critiqued them. There are some I think are amazing and some I don't like but even the ones I don't like have merits on the artistic and craftsmanship levels so I can appreciate them for what they are even if I wouldn't choose to have them on my shelf! At some point, I think the person doing the critique has to try to put their own preferences to one side and to appraise the piece fairly and honestly.

I think even a light pull can be critiqued - it should satisfy the three F's (form, finish and function) and ideally should represent an acceptable quality of workmanship.

Offline Twisted Trees

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Re: critiques
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2019, 02:26:30 PM »
Paul, point taken but the majority of the buyers will be "real people" not fellow woodturners, so while quality and design are key to the sale price, it is outside the scope of the critique we are talking about here. I can sell light pulls not because I make them better than anyone else, but because I got lucky and found a route to shift them in quantity. never spent a full day making them as I do get bored after a couple of hours but can in theory create a lot in a week.

On design, some of my best prices have been creating other peoples designs e.g. lamps, legs etc. which I personally dislike intensely but abranet is expensive so sometimes the customer is always right!

I am lucky enough to have another source of income to cover my beer bill, but would rather burn my work than undersell it as others need the prices and value at a reasonable level to cover the cost of living.

My personal favorite pieces are quite quirky, I like 'damaged' wood part turned, part natural, I like fruit bowls heavy enough not to tip over when fruit is put in it, and I love mallets to make and use. I get quite excited when someone wants a handle for a vice... ridiculously simple, but I know it will be used and that gives me a good feeling when I make it. Most of that I would not want to post photo's of, I will post some over the coming years, but they will probably not be my routine pieces and possibly not my best work as that is usually a commission and is almost never photographed.

If I want a critique, it is probably because I am unsure about the piece.

« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 02:28:52 PM by Twisted Trees »
TT, AKA Pete, but that name is taken :-)

Offline The Bowler Hatted Turner

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Re: critiques
« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2019, 07:44:24 PM »
"I am lucky enough to have another source of income to cover my beer bill, but would rather burn my work than undersell it as others need the prices and value at a reasonable level to cover the cost of living." Good for you for thinking like that, well done, I wish more turners did the same.