Author Topic: critiques  (Read 10112 times)

Offline Paul Hannaby

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critiques
« on: June 05, 2019, 06:39:50 PM »
I have been giving some thought to how best to critique turnings - both here on the forum and in person. Here are a few thoughts for discussion...

I think there is a need for anyone delivering a critique to do so sensitively so the maker isn't discouraged from having another go or from participating in future critiques. This doesn't mean you can't make negative statements but when doing so, perhaps put yourself in the shoes of the maker and ask yourself how you would feel if you were on the receiving end of the same statement and whether the same information can be conveyed in a more positive way.

I think it's also worth bearing in mind the circumstances around the creation of a piece - was it experimental? what was the maker's skill level? What else would influence how you critiqued the piece?

If we're honest, we can all benefit from hearing the thoughts of other makers and for self development, a critique may point out areas where further improvements could be made so I think we should be encourage forum users, club members etc. to ask for feedback. How can we best go about this?

The main areas I would consider are choice of wood / materials, shape, tooling, interaction of elements within the piece, finish and possibly function. Can you suggest other areas to look at?

Offline Bryan Milham

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Re: critiques
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2019, 08:16:46 PM »
I agree with you Paul. And compared to some forums I've looked at I think we are fairly good at it on the whole.

Not every piece got's a 'Oh that's wonderful', but generally constructive criticism is offered, hopefully in a kindly way. Occasionally a short comment, without further explanation is offered, but I have noticed that when further thought is applied, the original comment was not meant in the manor it first appears.

Would be difficult to add a bulleted list of the main point of your post as a Sticky to the AWGB News & Announcements page along the lines of the Forum User Agreement?
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Offline David Buskell

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Re: critiques
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2019, 09:21:02 PM »
Paul,
there are a few articles giving guidance on critiques. Have a look at WT issue 297 which features some suggestions on critique for woodturners. The article also features two artists and their stories about critique.

John Plater also wrote a piece in WT302 on critique as well.

We have in Cheam Woodturners, just had a general discussion on critique and looked at various work by other turners. Members also had the opportunity to have their own work given a critique. Very interesting, I quite liked some of the comments/suggestions made about my own WIP piece.

Happy to offer assistance on this topic as both the AAW article in 2005 and the 2 WT pieces only cover a small part of the topic. I know there is a further piece awaiting publication which looks at critique from a different angle from previous articles.

BTW, I must thank all those woodturners who provided their thoughts for the WT297 article and especially to Ray Key for his thoughts on the topic.



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Offline michaelb

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Re: critiques
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2019, 07:16:20 AM »
I think it is difficult and probably an injustice to give a critiques on photographs of pieces with out seeing or holding the object. If you are critiquing a piece at a club as Paul says it it important to know the skill level or time being involved in turning but in saying that recently have seen a piece done by a novice that put a piece done by a professional demonstrator  to shame .....but again that's in the eye of the beholder .
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Offline BrianH

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Re: critiques
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2019, 08:58:23 AM »
unfortunately it is only those who take the matter seriously that will even bother to read articles and guidelines on a subject like this. They are already likely to be the thoughtful, 'Helpers'.  The 'Gushers' and the 'Stabbers' of this world will continue in their own merry way being no help to anybody, and even doing harm to some.
Brian

Offline Derek

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Re: critiques
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2019, 09:17:14 AM »
I for one enjoy having my work commented on whether I agree or not with the critique being given, most times others have seen something that I may have missed. I will give my thoughts on a piece and try to be mindful of the person to whom I am making the comment many here and on other forums I have got to know and know that I can be a bit harsher with them(not in a nasty way), but for those that I don't know I try to be a little more sensitive.
Sometimes I have to type out a comment more than once after reading it a few times as I am not always the best at putting things into the written word.
People have to realise that a comment on their piece is only the view of the person giving the critique.
I agree that you as a person giving the critique has to be aware of the person's capability whose work you are looking at.
I normally get roped in to judge at our club and am more than happy to discuss with members why I marked their piece the way I do.
I have like many have just put an "I like that" type of answer but only if I do like it. Sometimes I like a piece but have seen things that spoil the overall piece like finish and then I may start with something like "I like it, but for me xxx is wrong" in other words I like the design but have seen other things that have let the piece down"

Offline Paul Hannaby

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Re: critiques
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2019, 12:48:36 PM »
Yes we could add a sticky to the top of the gallery with some guidelines on acceptable critique. I will see where this discussion goes - perhaps someone would like to draft a proposed guide for discussion?

Critiquing from a photo can only be limited to what you can see from the angle of the shot(s), which sometimes makes the job more difficult but generally, enough can be seen to at least give a feel for a piece and the overall shape.

BrianH, Nobody gets upset by the "gushers" but perhaps we can educate the "stabbers" so they approach the critique more sensitively rather than discouraging people from participating further!


Offline michaelb

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Re: critiques
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2019, 01:53:43 PM »
My club has a week long exhibition over the bank holiday and has done so for many years, putting your turnings on show to the public is one of the best ways to judge how you are doing, and when someone pay to buy you piece you know you must be doing something right, I know the elation I got when some one paid £30.00 my first sale their critiquing must have wanted them to buy.
What is important is to give novice turners the encouragement to develop their skills and don't be  backward in exhibiting your confidence will grow .

As an aside over the last few years we have managed to raise £11,000 plus for the air ambulance through our exhibition 
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Offline willstewart

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Re: critiques
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2019, 03:01:14 PM »
I am sure most clubs (like mine Tudor Rose) have a table at each meeting for 'things made since last time' which is a source of excellent (& mostly sympathetic!) feedback.  Also of ideas of course.

Offline Percy

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Re: critiques
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2019, 08:40:22 PM »
I don't have a local club close enough to me to get to very easily  - coupled with young kids and busy life in general making it tricky to attend evening events. The opportunity to post work on this forum for critique from other members is useful for me as a learning tool, and I have had a lot of helpful comments on ways I might improve or alter pieces in order to improve them.
I think we need to remember how impersonal the internet can be. For me, this means I often take a little extra care over anything I write to make sure my language is clear and helpful. It also means that I take any comments and critique made about my work with an allowance for some comments sometimes seeming a little curt or impolite. I guess this is the price we pay for communicating via typed messages on a web forum rather than face to face!

Offline David Buskell

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Re: critiques
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2019, 09:48:20 PM »
Paul,
to help kick off the discussions, here are the 3 articles published on critique so far. There is a  further article in the process of being published, which looks at critique from a different perspective.
David
PS also happy to share thoughts from the various turners from the UK, USA and Canada that helped in formulating the article in WT297.
 
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Offline David Buskell

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Re: critiques
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2019, 09:50:05 PM »
Paul,
Here is JIm Christiansen's first article.
David
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Offline David Buskell

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Re: critiques
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2019, 09:52:45 PM »
Paul,
Will try to post WT297 as a JPEG. PDF files too big.

David
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Offline The Bowler Hatted Turner

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Re: critiques
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2019, 08:43:38 AM »
How to critique other people's work without upsetting them is a challenge. But there is always something good to say if you look hard enough.To be good at critiquing I think you need to have some woodturning experience behind you so that you know how much time and effort has been put into the making. You need to be fair and impartial and scrupulously honest.A degree in diplomacy would be quite helpful too.

Offline hughie

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Re: critiques
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2019, 12:02:36 PM »
Critiques, I have a few of them :)

But for me I have a very simple set of rules, while taking into consideration the turners experience.

I simply start with the negatives as I see them and finish on the positives along with ample encouragement