Author Topic: Lichtenberg - reminder  (Read 7249 times)

Offline Paul Hannaby

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Lichtenberg - reminder
« on: August 28, 2018, 10:03:51 PM »
I have removed the topic recently started because it contravenes the AWGB policy. Please visit the AWGB website and refresh yourself on the policy if you are unfamiliar or have forgotten what it says. Here's a link https://www.awgb.co.uk/fractal-lichtenberg-pyrography-policy/

The forum guidelines also make the policy clear. http://www.awgb.co.uk/awgbforum/index.php/topic,3029.0.html


Offline seventhdevil

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Re: Lichtenberg - reminder
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2018, 11:03:01 PM »
not that i have any interest in the process and i get why the AWGB can not endorse the process as such but surely you can't ban people from talking about it.

Offline Paul Hannaby

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Re: Lichtenberg - reminder
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2018, 11:13:48 PM »
The AWGB haven't banned people from talking about the pros and cons but the AWGB does prohibit posting information or links on where equipment can be obtained.

Offline Les Symonds

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Re: Lichtenberg - reminder
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2018, 06:14:06 AM »
I'm 100% in agreement with this. Some might feel that the availability of so-called "safe" equipment, might mean that the AWGB's stance could be relaxed a little. I do not!
If the UK imports machines from the US and we suddenly see this process becoming more popular, there will always be the cowboy element who start stripping down old microwave ovens to make their own DIY equipment; it is inevitable. The AWGB rightly distances itself from publicising the process.
Les
Education is important, but wood turning is importanter.

Offline The Bowler Hatted Turner

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Re: Lichtenberg - reminder
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2018, 08:33:55 AM »
Well done Paul and well said Les. It is not worth risking the life of one person to gratify a need to decorate or make money.

Offline Lazurus

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Re: Lichtenberg - reminder
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2018, 08:56:49 AM »
Sorry gents no offence intended
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Offline APH

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Re: Lichtenberg - reminder
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2018, 08:59:14 AM »
Whilst I understand why banning discussion of DIY methods has some merit, it seems harsh to ban discussion of commercial products. The one in question had several decent safety features, insulated handles and foot switch operation. Whilst there seems to be no progress on the setting of standards for such kit, surely discussion of commercial offerings is of value and not contrary to the AWGB's stance.

It's not as if Lichtenberg pyrography is more dangerous than many other practices by woodturners. Chain saws are hardly benign bits of kit in inexperienced hands either.


Offline Les Symonds

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Re: Lichtenberg - reminder
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2018, 09:03:51 AM »
Thank you John....my feelings about this were strengthened when a woodturner came into my shop a week or two ago. He was an extremely enthusiastic sort, buzzing around the shop and jabbering away, and he kept asking about this process and whether or not I use it. I assured him that I did not, because of the safety record associated with it. He insisted that it was a perfectly safe process and that the people who have died as a result of using it, have done so because of their ignorance of matters electrical, so they should have left it to experts like himself. I protested my point and he then said (and I'm paraphrasing), "...people don't realise that even with airborne moisture in a workshop, the power being emitted by a home-made set-up can ark across the room looking for somewhere to land, if it lands on you, you're dead".
Now in my mind, he strengthened my argument, not his own, but he didn't see it that way, and this is what we're up against. Well meaning people, who may well be skilled at handling such specialised equipment, will only raise the level of interest in it if they keep the process in the limelight and display their results and, as I said before, less well-skilled people will get hurt in their attempt to emulate those results.
Les
Education is important, but wood turning is importanter.

Offline seventhdevil

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Re: Lichtenberg - reminder
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2018, 10:21:46 AM »
The AWGB haven't banned people from talking about the pros and cons but the AWGB does prohibit posting information or links on where equipment can be obtained.

why not just delete those comments rater than the whole thread then?

Offline Lazurus

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Re: Lichtenberg - reminder
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2018, 11:01:19 AM »
The AWGB haven't banned people from talking about the pros and cons but the AWGB does prohibit posting information or links on where equipment can be obtained.

why not just delete those comments rater than the whole thread then?

That's a good point methinks........
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Offline bodrighywood

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Re: Lichtenberg - reminder
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2018, 11:02:00 AM »
Personally, I know just enough about electricity to avoid it where possible. I am usually one of the first to shout out against free speech etc but this mis (IMHO) one of those cases where to post information is to promote something that is potentially lethal. If electricity can find its way across a piece of wood burning as it goes then what is it going to do to me if I don't get all the insualtion etc just right. 100% behind the limitations on this one.

Pete
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Offline seventhdevil

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Re: Lichtenberg - reminder
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2018, 12:11:51 PM »
if it's lethality being talked about here then chainsaws fall into that category just as much and this is where i find the censorship of just this subject as being unduly biased in that direction

either we are free to talk or we are not.

as this practise becomes more widespread (or more of a fad) then more people are going to want to use it whether it is safe or not so i no longer see this discussion about just lichtenberg devices but more like all dangerous items.

if a safe one comes on the market in the UK or Europe will it then become ok to talk about it?

Offline Lazurus

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Re: Lichtenberg - reminder
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2018, 01:04:40 PM »
The safety issue is a very valid one, and home made devices, machines, workshops and wiring all carry huge dangers if poorly made or incorrectly used, as said I have several chainsaws, table and band saw and of course a huge lathe which can take enormous chunks of unbalanced timber - I am able to talk freely on any of these subjects - I do feel the knee jerk reaction to the reported deaths is just that.

Arborists, machinist and builders unfortunately die and are seriously injured every year - but we do not censor their machines or usage. I did not post any instruction on how to make a device, nor would I, or even contemplate making one myself. Yes this method is often related to but not exclusive to turning, as are the other machine mention herein.

But to strike a link to a commercial product, weather we agree with its potential dangers or not I feel is draconian and has lowered my high opinion of this site and its contributors. I have apologized if unknowingly I breached any forum protocols but my original post was done in good faith and an interest in a particular method no more or less.
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Offline Misa

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Re: Lichtenberg - reminder
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2018, 01:24:12 PM »
While I do understand the concerns of the admin, I feel deleting comments doesn't really solve anything. The curious can - as I did - simply Google "Lichtenberg" and access information on the subject. Personally, I've no interest in playing around with electricity, but surely having a discussion about the issues is better than shutting it down?

Offline Sandy

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Re: Lichtenberg - reminder
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2018, 02:23:00 PM »

To repeat Pauls' post above on the policy, repeated below:

Therefore, and with immediate effect, the AWGB, will not limit discussion of the subject in any of its media (Revolutions and the Forum) but the discussions must be limited to the pros and cons of the process and the development of safety standards.[/i][/b][/b][/i][/color]


Isn't this sufficient for us?

We all know we can use the internet to get most of the information needed for almost everything.