Author Topic: Record Power Grinder  (Read 5885 times)

Offline Mike313

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Record Power Grinder
« on: December 31, 2017, 08:42:54 PM »
Hi Folks,
Beginner here. I have only recently begun my adventure in woodturning with the purchase of a secondhand SIP lathe and some tools. I now need to turn my attention to sharpening those tools. I have only turned three practice pieces so far, but have been surprized at the amount of shavings and wood dust generated. I am conscious that these might present a fire hazard if sparks are generated, such as when using a grinder to sharpen chisels, gouges etc.
I was therefore thinking about buying the Record Power grinder shown here -

http://www.recordpower.co.uk/product/wg200-8-wet-stone-sharpening-system-package-deal#.WklJzuQiGUk

It seemed to me that sparks would be eliminated completely since the grinding wheel runs in a water bath; I thought this might also be an advantage in that overheating of the tool tip would be less likely.
Am I going in the right direction?
Ta in advance,
Mike.

Offline fuzzyturns

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Re: Record Power Grinder
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2017, 11:06:01 PM »
Sharpening your tools is almost a science of its own.
Firstly, don't worry too much about the sparks coming off the grinding wheels. I have never heard of a workshop being set on fire caused by the sparks.
Secondly, a water cooled system will give you a much better grind than any other system, but it comes at a price. The kit is expensive and it needs constant attention. I wouldn't recommend it for a total beginner.
A normal bench grinder with a pink or white wheel and a simple grinding jig will do all you need right now.

Since you seem to be quite determined to get this right, there's a final recommendation from me: Go to the AWGB website and find your nearest wood turning club. Join them and get help from the members. Also, use the same website to find the nearest turners listed as tutors, and get yourself 2 days of tuition. It will cost you a few bob, but I promise, the ROI is immense.

Offline Mike313

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Re: Record Power Grinder
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2017, 11:33:24 PM »
Thanks yet again for the advice, which is much appreciated. I know I AM very cautious about fire, some years ago I was lucky to escape a building fire with minor burn and smoke injuries, something I'll never forget so you'll understand my line of thinking - lathe, shavings, sanding, sawdust, grinder, sparks ...:)
Regarding the last bit of advice, I hope to arrange to have one-to-one two day tuition in the New Year. I am a great believer in learning from an expert no matter what the subject, the best way to learn good technique and prevent bad habits developing.
The replies are much appreciated. Best wishes.

Offline Tim Cornwall

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Re: Record Power Grinder
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2018, 11:54:24 AM »
Happy new year, i agree with Fuzzy , and glad you are going to get some tuition, i have only been turning for a few months, joining a club is also a great way of gleaning knowledge, every one seems so helpful.
on the sharpening front i had the same dilemma, and was heading down the Tormek road, but it seemed slow watching it on you tube all the wet stones seem the same and more maintenance needed  (changing the water, dressing the stone ect), in the end i got a sorby pro edge stuck a ceramic belt on it for 6 quid , what a machine, bullet proof, it is so well made and even i can get perfect grinds on it, if you are thinking of getting the record wet stone grinder with all the jigs, i reckon a  a pro edge plus will be about the same amount and it is a lot quicker, but in the end your choice and i understand your worries, about fire, but as fuzzy says i think you will be fine
all the best Tim

Offline APH

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Re: Record Power Grinder
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2018, 12:35:04 PM »
There can be a fire risk from dry grinding, but being aware of that risk should ensure you're safe. A quick 'touch up' sharpen hardly generates many sparks anyway.
Most turners start with a dry grinder and many won't ever change. It's cheap, fast and making some simple jigs will ensure you can easily sharpen tools often and well.
Wet wheel sharpeners are slow, painfully so if trying to reshape a tool, expensive, messy and need regular maintenance. I thought they sounded a great idea when I started, but that proved not to be the case. I returned to dry sharpening almost immediately.... just money wasted.

If you can afford it, a Sorby Pro Edge is an ideal answer. An expensive investment, but dead easy to use and delivers excellent edges repeatedly. They can put out a few sparks when doing coarse reshaping, but generally aren't a fire risk. Swapping belts is the only maintenance they need and is dead simple and quick.

Offline Mike313

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Re: Record Power Grinder
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2018, 03:01:21 PM »
I almost had my mind made up about the wet grinder but I will look again at the options you guys have mentioned. I am on a tight budget but I want to do the best I can regarding sharpening the tools I have (mostly Robert Sorby, so good quality, bought at a very good secondhand price, I don't expect to have to buy any chisels in the foreseeable future) and with dust control (as per my other post). Although I have a very cheap and not-very-powerful secondhand lathe, a SIP, it is likely that it will be some time before I reach the limitations of the lathe, and my thinking is regardless of whether I have my SIP for years or upgrade to a better lathe, I will need a good tool sharpening system and good dust control right from the start. So I am happy to wait and 'save up' a bit to get these right whilst still working with my entry level lathe, so that the only thing I would ever need to upgrade would be the lathe. Unless I won the Lottery of course!
Thanks you folks for the advice. Much appreciated.

Offline Tim Cornwall

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Re: Record Power Grinder
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2018, 03:44:51 PM »
that's the way Mike, do it once do it right, most times the cheapest way is not the best way, and like you say dust extraction and a 1st class sharpening system will outlast your lathe and give many years service

good luck

Offline Wood spinner

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Re: Record Power Grinder
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2018, 08:43:46 PM »
You need to be careful with wet grinder as they are for sharpening not shaping
Achieve the profile you want on a dry grinder without overheating the cutting edge then hone / sharpen on the wet grinder

Offline edbanger

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Re: Record Power Grinder
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2018, 07:42:24 AM »
Hi Mike

If your new to sharpening then the ProEdge is the way to go, it's quick & simple. I used a bench grinder and wet wheel sharpening system for the first year of my turning without issue, but there is some messing around with the wet wheel system. Then tried the ProEdge and stuck with it.

I did a video on using the ProEdge which you can find here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFXa0K2EMDA

Welcome to woodturning.

Ed

Offline The Bowler Hatted Turner

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Re: Record Power Grinder
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2018, 09:34:22 AM »
Mike I will not comment on sharpening systems but as the H&S rep I will comment on your concerns about fire. The sparks from a bench grinder are usually cold by the time they hit the bench. But you should keep the bench area clean and tidy to prevent any combustible material being in close contact with the sparks. One of the most dangerous things is wire wool, if a grinding spark gets onto that it can smoulder for ages. So good houskeeping is an essential. You should also avoid mixing sawdust and shavings as that combination can spontaneously combust. Cloths that you may have used for oiling should be spread out to dry or disposed of again to prevent them bursting into flames.
         Now watch for the flurry of messages to say it has never happened to them but all I say is forwarned is forearmed. If you wish to hear about my sharpening system send me a PM.

Offline bodrighywood

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Re: Record Power Grinder
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2018, 09:40:54 AM »
Mike I will not comment on sharpening systems but as the H&S rep I will comment on your concerns about fire. The sparks from a bench grinder are usually cold by the time they hit the bench. But you should keep the bench area clean and tidy to prevent any combustible material being in close contact with the sparks. One of the most dangerous things is wire wool, if a grinding spark gets onto that it can smoulder for ages. So good houskeeping is an essential. You should also avoid mixing sawdust and shavings as that combination can spontaneously combust. Cloths that you may have used for oiling should be spread out to dry or disposed of again to prevent them bursting into flames.
         Now watch for the flurry of messages to say it has never happened to them but all I say is forwarned is forearmed. If you wish to hear about my sharpening system send me a PM.
Only has to happen once. Some mistakes are better learned from advice rather than experience


Pete
Turners don't make mistakes, they have design opportunities

Offline APH

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Re: Record Power Grinder
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2018, 10:18:50 AM »
You should also avoid mixing sawdust and shavings as that combination can spontaneously combust.
In thirty five years woodworking I've never seen that suggested before. Any credible references ?
Not even the HSE guidance suggests that's a particular risk http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis32.pdf

Offline bodrighywood

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Re: Record Power Grinder
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2018, 11:10:35 AM »
You should also avoid mixing sawdust and shavings as that combination can spontaneously combust.
In thirty five years woodworking I've never seen that suggested before. Any credible references ?
Not even the HSE guidance suggests that's a particular risk http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis32.pdf

Sawdust can be explosive same as flour and when mixed with shavings it has plenty of air around it allowing it to catch fire easily. When compacted it is more likely to smoulder than explode.

Pete
Turners don't make mistakes, they have design opportunities

Offline APH

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Re: Record Power Grinder
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2018, 11:19:40 AM »
Sawdust can be explosive same as flour and when mixed with shavings it has plenty of air around it allowing it to catch fire easily. When compacted it is more likely to smoulder than explode.
Agreed, but the assertion is that spontaneous combustion can take place.
That seems highly unlikely given the routine way wood dust and shaving are usually vacuum extracted and stored in bags or bins across the industry.

Offline bodrighywood

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Re: Record Power Grinder
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2018, 11:25:33 AM »
If you can guarantee that all the dust in your workshop is extracted at source and the shavings as created then I'd agree. Next time you do some turning check what dust and shavings there are around. Most of us will sharpen our tools and possibly reshape them several times during a session and the dust and shavings are still around. Dust in the air is more likely to cause an explosion I agree but any risk of a fire or worse, an explosion is something to be aware of and, as far as possible, negate IMHO. Plenty of videos on line fo this happenning .

Pete
Turners don't make mistakes, they have design opportunities