Steel quality

[Les Symonds]

I'm not very knowledgeable about steel; about the various types used in tools and about their qualities. Added to that, I have a mixed bag of tools, some new, but many that were bought second hand. In particular, I have two main bowl gouges that I use regularly, and their qualities are fairly well matched when they're freshly sharpened, but very different once they've been used a little. My 'new' gouge is a Record Power HSS and it keeps its edge well, but my 'old' one is a Henry Taylor Diamic, but this one loses its edge rapidly. I use CBN wheels and have noticed that the new gouge hardly produces any sparks, whereas the Taylor gouge produces a flurry of bright yellow.

My problem is this....when I'm turning up at the shop, rather than in my main workshop, the only sharpening facilities that I have is a little diamond slip-stone, so I tend to sharpen all my tools at home after work, taking duplicates of most of the tools to the shop so that I can continue working all day. Does anyone know what grade of steel is in the Diamic tools, and why they don't hold their edge so well?
Les.

[bodrighywood]

I may be wrong but I understood that Diamic was a trade name for Henry Taylor tools but has been so for a long time . They use HSS sheffield steel same as other makers nowadays to the best of my knowledge. Yellow sparks usually comes from milder steels to the best of my knowledge so the Diamic tools may be older Henry Taylor ones. Some of my skews are old ones and I sharpen them every now and then on a wheel then just hone as I use on a diamond plate.

Someone will correct me if I am wrong.

Pete

[Paul Hannaby]

It sounds like the old gouge is high carbon steel and not high speed steel. The sparks from the two look very different - HSS gives solid orange sparks, high carbon steel gives straw coloured sparks that divide, like a sparkler. That would explain the difference in how long the edge lasts.

Newer Henry Taylor tools will be HSS and they will also have HSS engraved on the metal along with their name. I just checked a couple of my Henry Taylor tools, they had the "Diamic" label on them and HSS on the blade.

[Les Symonds]

Thanks Pete/Paul, that all makes sense.
Paul....the Henry Taylor gouge is clearly quite old and looks to be hand-forged from a square bar, but doesn't have any ,marks on it beyond the 'Diamic' diamond-shaped label.

Les

[Bryan Milham]

I've met Barry Surplus a few times, He is the owner of Henry Taylor tools and Hamlet Tools.

Henry Taylor tools is an old company, he bought some years ago but it's history is not well documented.

I can tell you he has a reward for anyone who can tell him the origins of the Diamic trademark/logo.

[Steve Jones]

Henry Taylor made both HHS and Carbon Steel tools in the diamic range. The HSS has a Rosewood colour handle while the Carbon Steel tools have light coloured handles.

[Les Symonds]

Thank you Steve....that now tells me all that In need to know. I'll clean 'em up and stick 'em on eBay.
Les

[julcle]

Hi Les  --  I have a few old Carbon Steel tools in the drawer in the workshop. They are never used as general turning tools but if I need a particular shape for something they are easily ground to the shape I need and take a good edge. The edge doesn't last as long as HSS it's true but for a one off it's cheap and doesn't use up the quality tools by reshaping.  --  Julian

[hughie]

Most steels used in cutting tools are or claimed to be propriety steels. Which mean the manufacturer will never divulge the content or recipe.
But if the tool is really old them it will most likely be high carbon steel which is similar to silver steel and or drill rod. It wont hold an edge as good as HSS but you can probably get a better edge on it. I have a couple of HC steel gouges that I keep for the really bad tear our wood. They come into thier own for difficult jobs, razor sharp and whisper cuts get the job done.