AWGB International Seminar

[Graham]

As far as pitching parts of the seminar at the beginner goes..... I was there and I am a beginner. I picked people to watch partly on the basis of seeing something to inspire future growth ( lots of choice there ) and partly to learn something useful now, at the beginner stage. Ashley Harwood in particular was ideal for that with bits on finial turning, using the push cut, and stuff like that.
It is funny though, the way people learn. Two things stick in my mind and neither of them gad much to do with the seminars themselves. One was a throwaway comment by Mark Hancock ( I think ) about using a cabinet scraper on turnings to get a fine finish - never occurred to me. The other was seeing a pierced wine glass on one of the trade stands. Unlike the gallery I could actually pick this up and look closely at it ( I need to look CLOSE ) This was a gauge for the quality I need to be aiming for and it was an eye opener.

[Graham]

Actually, thinking about it, there is another point I want to make here and it is about the commeraderie if woodturners.

My eyesight is pretty naff. I don't fall over the furniture but I am registered blind and use a white stick to walk around places I am not familiar with. ( having walked off the top of staircases more than once ) I left there feeling quite humbled. No fussing about but people were quietly making sure I found the lectures I wanted, found my way about the site on the odd occasion I wasn't given a lift, and even telling me what was in the dishes at the canteen.

Much appreciated.

[PaulH]

I doubt the taxman would see it that way going of for a weekend jolly and expecting the taxpayer to subsidise it.

Not at all, others here have done exactly that (see reply #12). Attending training courses and professional seminars are totally legitimate business expenses, ask your accountant or phone the tax office for confirmation.

I don't need to you seem to have all the answers

Not quite sure what that's meant to mean, but if someone pointed out to me a way of saving a few hundred quid on tax legitimately I'd thank them.

Maybe this shows another possibility for future events;
Specific session(s) for professionals or intending professionals on running a successful small business.
How to source materials effectively, efficiency in production, marketing, promotion, finding new markets, legal responsibilities, the basics of accountancy etc..
Whilst that sort of session was running for professionals and aspirationals, it would be a great time to run other sessions aimed at those newer to the craft.

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

It works for me.

[Dave Atkinson]

I have just analysed this thread.

There have been over 500 views and this is the 49th post.  17 individuals in total have posted with contributions ranging from 1 to 9 per individual.

The general consensus seems to be we need to market it more - something with which I totally agree.  Someone suggested that maybe there is a someone out there who organises events for a living.  My wife worked in event management for many years and ran her own events company for some time.  I was involved in this to some extent particularly in the logistics side of thing - bookings, etc so I do have a good appreciation of what is involved.  Marketing is the key to bums on seats.  As a general rule it was expected that a mailshot to a targeted database would result in a 10% take up.

We have a membership of 3500, and the seminar was promoted extensively in evolutions and yet we only managed just over 5% take up which is half of what we would expect in a professional event management capacity.  The information in Woodturning generated about 6 (I'm guessing at this as we did have some non members book after it was published in WT).

So whilst I agree that marketing is important there also has to be a demand and this is where we are coming unstuck, in my view.

The membership of the AWGB is predominantly retired.  I have talked to a number of people in different clubs over the past few weeks.  The average age in several clubs is over 70, many club members don't turn at all they come for the chat.  most probably turn something once a month, if that.  I turn something every couple of months for example as I spend a lot of time on the road and I have a lot of other commitments.

The stats on this thread give us an indication of the problem.  500 views, 17 posters which is 3%.  Or to put it another way 97% of those viewing aren't interested enough to express an opinion.  Fair enough but on that basis to get 300 people at an event we would have to target between 5 and 10000 people.  Hmmm!!

But we have a number of ideas - we shall seek sponsorship; we have approached nine different venue providers for information and a quotation and I expect these back by the end of November; we shall consider a new look and feel; we shall try to provide a varied programme to try to meet all tastes and interests.

Thanks for your input so far. Keep those ideas coming.

Cheers Dave

[bodrighywood]

What you are pointing out Dave is perhaps part of the ongoing problem for wood turning. Whilst no doubt there are turners who have little or nothing to do with the AWGB my experience doing shows around the country is that a huge number of people in the general public have no experience or knowledge of the art / crasft. It is no longer taught in schools (apart from perhaps a few) and the only time I have seen it in the 'craft show' on TV is for pole lathe turning. I know that the AWGB is involved in trying to promote it through various ways and perhaps those of us who turn professionally need to look to doing it ourselves. When I was manning the exhibition in Trowbridge recently I had a lot of people saying that they were totally unaware of the vast diversity and artistic element in turning. Perhaps I am wrong but I suspect that the general idea is that turning is all about bowls, stair spindles and chair legs. here and on other similar forums we are preaching to the converted perhaps the need is not just for promoting to other turners but also to the public in general. There is interest in crafts thanks to the promotion of certain people in the media but we do need to get our own craft out there as well.

pete

[ChrisF]

Perhaps I am wrong but I suspect that the general idea is that turning is all about bowls, stair spindles and chair legs.

I think you're bang on.

I help run a large and diverse group of artists which includes turners, sculptors, blacksmiths, silversmiths, potters as well as many different varieties of fine artists including for example a wet felt artist.  We find that one of the biggest challenges is educating the public (the art & craft buyers of the future) on the complexities and skills of the various disciplines.  For this reason we run free talks and workshops at our largest annual event where our members spend an hour talking about or demonstrating what goes into the making of their work.  It makes a huge difference.... pretty much everyone who does a talk sees a boost in sales over the weekend as people start to better understand and appreciate the work.

Before I got actively involved in turning I had no idea of the diversity or the potential complexity.  I also very much underestimated the skill involved in even the simplest bowl.  Now I know more I appreciate good turning all the more and as a result am far more likely to buy a piece.

How this really relates to the original question(s) in this thread I'm not sure, but if the ultimate aim is to get more people really interested in woodturning then perhaps the seminar could do with being a little more outward looking to see if there is a way of opening it up to those not yet actively involved or even just to the general public to help 'educate' them towards a better appreciation of the craft and therefore a greater likelihood of them buying work in the future.

[Dave Atkinson]

Interesting replies Pete and Chris but I very much doubt the general public who are not turners are going to come to the seminar.  The aims of the Seminar is to provide inspiration and demonstrate turning at its best by some of the world's best turners.  It isn't about promoting turning to the public at large, any more than any other specialist event such as photography, golf etc.  You wouldn't go if it wasn't your thing.

Promotion of turning to the public is one of our aims but it isn't something we would naturally include in the Seminar, but maybe that should change?

The Instant Gallery is open to the general public and it's free and we did get some people come along just for that and one lad stayed on in the afternoon and paid to attend two sessions and then bought a set of Sorby turning tools.  He was from New Zealand and over here visiting family and they all came along to look at the Gallery.

Chris you wrote "perhaps the seminar could do with being a little more outward looking".  Sounds like a good idea but what do you have in mind?

I am really looking for concrete suggestions about how we can achieve these aims.

I look forward to hearing your ideas

Cheers Dave

[Graham]

Dave, some of the conclusions you are drawing from this thread are a little questionable. 500 views and only 17 posters..... you have to ask how many times each poster revisited the thread to read follow ups, I have visited it many rimes both before and after I joined in.

If you go through this forum and look at the posts I suspect you will find 17 different people joining in is rather special, I doubt that there are that many regular posters on here.

One of the things that interested me was the makeup of those who attended. I think you may have answered this now, do I understand correctly that out of 200 attendees only about 6 were non members ? If so then I think therein lies the problem.

The number of keen(ish) turners in this country could probably be better assessed by the numbers going to Axminster shops ( and their demos ? ) than by those belonging to clubs or the AWGB. Turning is a solitary pastime and possibly attracts individualists  as much as it does the clubby types.

I think the big question has to be 'How do you get at these turners and how do you convince them that the weekend is actually good value'. Once you can get them there they may well join the AWGB as well.

I was dubious about the seminar, right up until I got there but in fact it had quite a profound affect on me and I enjoyed it enormously but the decision to go could VERY easily have gone the other way. There is a definite air of the seminar being for the elite among turners and beginners like me would be laughed at. I enjoyed the mix of 'lectures; but perhaps one way around this would be to make it VERY obvious that beginners were welcome as well. Maybe by  running a few actual hands on workshops ( Cindy Drozda seems to do a lot of this ) where there is a talk about something specific followed by a workshop where people can give it a supervised try.

[bodrighywood]

Perhaps I was a bit obscure, what I was referring to was yoiur comment
 "The membership of the AWGB is predominantly retired.  I have talked to a number of people in different clubs over the past few weeks.  The average age in several clubs is over 70, many club members don't turn at all they come for the chat.  most probably turn something once a month, if that.  I turn something every couple of months for example as I spend a lot of time on the road and I have a lot of other commitments."
As you say, the majority of turners are of the older generation and maybe the attendance at the seminar would improve if the younger members of the public were reached and educated. I know that it is one of the aims of the AWGB and applaud that but if the seminars to grow in any way surely we need to reach out to those that, as yet, are not aware of the craft? One depends on the other or am I being naive? How many of us who either turn regularly or do it professionally would be willing to get involved with say open days teching and showing the public what can be done, hands on sessions etc? I would if I knew where and how. I learned to turn at school and as that is no longer available for many how can we reach the youngsters of today? if the seminar is to prosper then as I see it we need to not so much try and get the non turning public in as get them interested and involved themselves so that they would want to. As I said initially, perhaps one depends on the other?

pete

[Dave Atkinson]

I think the big question has to be 'How do you get at these turners and how do you convince them that the weekend is actually good value'.

Couldn't agree more Graham.  We have the workshop idea in the suggestion list, possibly as an optional extra.  

As for getting at this unspecified number of solitary turners apart from advertising in WT and other wood related magazines I don't know.  And of course advertising costs money which all adds to the cost of the event.  Hoping for favours like we did last time from GMC worked eventually but we lost out to other items due to page count on a couple of occasions before it actually got published in full.  There is no doubt in my mind that if you want to guarantee space it must be paid for.

Whether my numbers analysis on the thread is valid or not the fact still remains that we managed to excite only 5% of the membership who all know we run a Seminar assuming they read Revolutions.  And then there are all the non members in Associated Clubs who also have access to Revolutions that may have seen the information as well that didn't think it was worth attending.

Pete

I can see where you're coming from and I think I may have misunderstood your earlier post but getting non turners involved is a different topic altogether.  There are 15 Trustees and three volunteers who run the AWGB.  We spend many hours each week keeping it going.  The AWGB consists of two limited companies - the Charity and the Trading Company.   We are running two businesses - all in our spare time. As John (BHT) says we need help if we are to bring turning to a wider public.  We have funds available - not a huge amount but it is there.  If anyone wants to put together a worked up idea to the trustees to run an event, or series of events to promote turning we'd be only too pleased to look at it.    You're not alone in not knowing where and how.  We'd need to know who will run it, costs, venues, information about how safety would be addressed, competencies of the instructors etc, etc. 

We run a number of Youth Training events each year and all attendees are provided with membership of the AWGB free of charge.  We must teach around 50 to 60 young people each year.  How many come to the seminar - two or three at best. 

It all sounds easy when people see our work most ooh and aahh and are usually impressed and fascinated but then they would do that over ceramics or paintings - it doesn't make then necessarily want to take up pottery or watercolours.

Realistically, I don't actually believe there is a huge demand to get involved with what we do.  I have 5 children, a couple like the things we make, the others aren't that interested. They have their own interests and passions, plus four of them are busy with kids and work.  I don't think I'm alone in that regard.  It's one thing to have a go at a taster session and people will queue all day.  It's quite another to get them to take up the craft.  The investment is not high - say less than £1,000 which compares favourably with other pastimes such as golf or playing an instrument.  But it does need a shed and when I look around on my travels around the UK I see more houses where a shed is not an option than I do where it is.

Keep those ideas coming!

Cheers Dave

[Graham]

As you have said, most club members are over 70 ( we have a fair proportion of younger ones at Didcot ) I suspect that, like me, many took it up when they retired. That being the case, that is your target audience. It is tempting to ask how retired people can be expected to justify £400+ just for one weekend  ( or even more how a younger married man can ) but I won't, don't want to put the idea of scrapping it in your mind

Has anyone spoken to the AAW organisers ? I know they have a larger public to call on but are they having problems ?

On the other hand.... is there really that much of a problem ? You are only looking for 50 or so more people, doesn't seem such a lot. Perhaps a more concerted attack on the clubs. Individual letters handed out to each member extolling the virtues of the seminar rather than just 'hoping' that they are actually getting hold of the magazine. Maybe talking to all the regular demonstrators and getting them to push the idea at the clubs as well.

[Graham]

Another thought.
Do you have the pics etc  to produce a video / slide show about the last seminar that could be sent to clubs ( maybe youtube as well ) to show to members on the big screens most have access to ?

[David Buskell]

Graham says: Has anyone spoken to the AAW organisers ? I know they have a larger public to call on but are they having problems ?

I was at the AAW Symposium in Pittsburgh earlier this year. We had around 1500 attendees out of a membership of around 15,000.
The show has a mixture of turning demos, panels, and specialist group meetings plus of course the usual Instant Gallery (incredible as always!). The Trade Show is always well subscribed with a good mix of traders.

The AAW rotate the venue to try and attract attendees from all parts of the USA. The next 2 events are in Atlanta and then Kansas City. Perhaps this might be something the AWGB should consider??

In addition, there are numerous local gatherings around the USA so the AAW have to fight for every dollar against SWAT, Utah and other local events. The AWGB doesn't have to cope with this situation luckily.

On the topic of attracting younger members, we need to raise the profile on Facebook, Twitter and other social media. Most clubs seem to like to exist under the radar and wonder why they don't get new members of any  age! One guest at our club a couple of nights ago, explained to me that it was only through browsing the local history of our area that he was aware we existed!!

The AWGB seminar does represent good value for money but perhaps the format needs to be revised to breathe new life into the event.

[Graham]

David - Can I ask what the AAW event costs ?