AWGB International Seminar

[Dave Atkinson]

Morning all

Can I say two things:

Firstly I find nothing offensive in any of the comments about the seminar.  I had heard, privately, some comments about the difficulty of integrating if you are on your own and about the cost.

Second I started this thread to let you know what we are doing and I want to hear all comments warts an all!

We won't fix it here, but I have had a number of suggestions via email and there are some in here.

Please keep them coming.  If you don't agree that's fine.  But please don't let it degenerate into personal comments about other posters.

Thank you for your support.  It is your association and we need your input.

As for the £450 that is around what we should have charged to break even.  And I did allow a tenner for cost increases over time.

Cheers Dave

[Graham]

So we needed another 40 or so delegates to break even. Maybe another 100 to make a decent profit for the funds.

How many could the venue cope with ?

The problem is you can only guess at why that many didn't book in the first place.

[PaulH]

So we needed another 40 or so delegates to break even.

or charge £20 a day more.

The problem is you can only guess at why that many didn't book in the first place.

You could start to get an idea from the number of hits on the web site on the promotional pages and booking pages. Some careful analysis should help get an understanding if a lot of people sought information and didn't proceed with a booking.

 I hope the organisers have polled their attendees with a survey (eg the free services like  https://www.surveymonkey.com/ ) Besides gauging the overall satisfaction people got from the event, it should help to find out if the cost could rise enough to break even in future.

[GBF]

For me it was about justifying to my Wife Sue spending £500  00 on myself for three days entertainment when I could have taken both of us away for a weeks holiday in West Wales for the same money.
I went to the one before and enjoyed it but for me it was probably a one off and as for value for money I think it is great value for what you get.
For me it just seemed selfish and self indulgent to spend all that money on myself.

Regards George

[ChrisF]

The main reason I didn't go was because as a very new turner I doubted I would get enough from it to be worthwhile.  I was however a very close run thing and in the end other calls on my time tipped the balance.  The cost for a (very) full weekend seems quite reasonable and I fully expect to attend next time.....shame it's going to be three years.

I do wonder whether more could be done to generate more 'excitement' around the event.  Facebook was really very quiet and given the number of turners who regularly use it, and the various woodturning groups on there, it seems an obvious and relatively cheap channel for publicity (we use it extensively and very successfully for a number of large events I help organise).  More photos and good quality videos of previous events would help generate more interest and give a real flavour of what to expect.

First timers will always be a little tricky to attract in numbers.  One reason I decided against was that many, if not all, of the demonstrations looked like they would be so far above my skill and experience level that I was unlikely to learn much from them.  I enjoy watching real skill and talent in action as much as the next man, but if I'm paying good money to be there I really want to have a good opportunity to learn as well.  Being shown very clearly how to shear scrape properly would probably be of much more practical benefit to me than watching Mark Sanger demoing advanced hollowing techniques.  Being able to mix and match real learning opportunities with inspirational demos would make the event much more attractive to me and make the cost more justifiable (to she to whom it must be justified   ).

Maybe there could be a slot each session aimed at the less experienced turner?  Maybe a separate gallery, or a section within the main gallery for turners with less than 2 years experience to shown their work?  I do think making sure that us newbies feel fully involved and catered for is important, you need them to keep coming in at the bottom as the more experienced fall off the top(!).

Just my thoughts for to take or leave as you see fit  

[PaulH]

For me it just seemed selfish and self indulgent to spend all that money on myself.

You're a professional yes ? so it's a business expense fully tax deductible.

[GBF]

I doubt the taxman would see it that way going of for a weekend jolly and expecting the taxpayer to subsidise it.

Regards George

[PaulH]

Maybe there could be a slot each session aimed at the less experienced turner?

From what I've read about the event, it's pitched at being a world class elite seminar. In that context it wouldn't be appropriate to add novice content.
I would have thought that you would still learn a lot from an event like this if you have some understanding of the basics, but total novices would be better advised to invest in some practical hands on tutoring instead.

[PaulH]

I doubt the taxman would see it that way going of for a weekend jolly and expecting the taxpayer to subsidise it.

Not at all, others here have done exactly that (see reply #12). Attending training courses and professional seminars are totally legitimate business expenses, ask your accountant or phone the tax office for confirmation.

[GBF]

I doubt the taxman would see it that way going of for a weekend jolly and expecting the taxpayer to subsidise it.

Not at all, others here have done exactly that (see reply #12). Attending training courses and professional seminars are totally legitimate business expenses, ask your accountant or phone the tax office for confirmation.

I don't need to you seem to have all the answers

Regards George

[fuzzyturns]

I started turning about 18 months ago, and had a few days of tuition from Mark Hancock and George Foweraker. When I heard about the seminar, I asked Mark whether this would make any sense for me as a novice (I had similar doubts to Chris), and got back a resounding "absolutely, this will take your wood turning to the next level". And he was right.
Although I am a member of two clubs, I did not go as part of a party or "clique". And I had absolutely no problem making contact with a lot of people, learning a lot, getting ideas and inspiration.

I was also initially concerned about the cost, but I soon realized that this should not be a concern for anybody. If you consider the cost of a three day seminar in my line of work (I work in IT), charges of £400 PER DAY !!! are on the cheap side of things. My wife keeps 2 horses, and with all the insurance, vet charges, feed, and what not, my hobby is actually comparatively cheap. Her horse trainer told us the other day that he goes shooting every now and then and pays up to £1000 for a day of shooting game birds. So for all those who bemoan the cost, please put this into some perspective.

OK, I understand that for a production turner the seminar may hold little interest. After all, they have got all the experience anyway, and many of them don't do a lot of artistic/crafty work. But even then, the exposure to so many other good turners and the opportunity to have them all at the same place at the same time should be worth something!

I hear all around that wood turning is booming in the UK, but at the same time we (as a community) failed to get more than 200 delegates to the seminar. This makes no sense to me at all. I think there needs to be a serious re-think about the marketing for this event.

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

Can I just say that in my very humble opinion the seminar is pitched at the right level,so whether you are a professional turner or a complete novice there is something there for you. I am an RPT and this time I attended I was spoilt for choice of who to go and see. For the novice turner seeing any one of the demonstrators would have been of benefit to you.
          To put the price in perspective on Wednesday I will be attending a training course and the cost of this will be £250 for one day plus fuel and food. So I am looking at spending probably £300  which when you compare that to the seminar it just shows that the seminar is value for money. Put £10 away each month starting now and by the time the next one comes around you will have almost enough to pay for it.  3 pints of beer a week, 2 packets of fags or a gallon of petrol that is all you have to save each week.
 ChrisF the gallery is not judged, it is just to show what people are making at the time, and there are pieces there made by complete novices.

[John D Smith]

 Well said Fuzzy I couldn't have said it better.

                                      Regards John

[ChrisF]

Just to put my comments in perspective, I haven't attended so I clearly can't comment on what the event is actually like or how good it actually is for inexperienced turners.  I'm quite happy to take your word for it that it is pitched correctly and that there is something for everyone.

My point is that this is not made clear in any of the promotion (at least not that I saw, though I saw precious little).  Newcomers are, I would imagine, a very large market.  Those that have been before (and I wouldn't mind betting a very high proportion of attendees had been before) know what to expect.  Those that haven't need to be told and in particular that means people new to turning.  It is less about what is actually available and more about what the perception is.  If you make it clear that there is something for even the most new turners then you will be much more likely to get them interested.  The fact that there were so few attendees suggests that the message was not clear enough (it wasn't clear to me and it wasn't clear to Fuzzy without speaking to someone else about it and you can't depend on everyone doing that).

I'm aware the gallery isn't judged, but I seem to recall a poster on here expressing doubts about taking work along to exhibit alongside the more well known and established turners.  If someone on here is unsure then how are others without this support going to feel?  Again, it's not about the fact that they are not being judged, it's about making them feel comfortable enough to bring work along.  An area in the gallery dedicated to new turners might help with giving them that comfort and allay their fears (putting your work out there for scrutiny alongside some top notch work from internationally renowned turners can be a very scary proposition!).  Once you've got someone along for the first time they are far more likely to return.

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

 Although the team that put the seminar together was an experienced team  it must be remembered that they do not organise seminars for a living and I do wonder if amongst our membership there are people in a better placed position that can offer some aid. I don't know what could be offered but for instance if there is someone who works in publicity they might have contacts or the knowledge to enable that to be carried out at reasonable cost. There coud be ideal venues just waiting to be approached and the team need to be told about them. There could be someone that lives near one of the airports and they could offer to pick up some of the demonstrators from overseas. There are always things that people can do but you should not wait to be asked you should be volunteering your services, our association does an awful lot for its members, more than other organisations do for theirs, but there is a limit to what they can do. Remember no-one draws any pay in the AWGB, the time given is just that ,given. It is given by those that recognise the importance of what the association is trying to achieive, where else will you see young people being taught an art or craft by an expert totally free of charge? Where else will you go to find training in a woodturning discipline and get shown by the experts in their field at hardly any cost at all? Where will you go to witness the sale of woodturning in large quantities with all the proceeds being donated to your organisation? On making all of these points I have used the words you and yours because the AWGB is your Association and you only get out what you or other people put in.