Screens for Demonstrators and members

[Philip Greenwood]

Should Clubs provide a screen for the demonstrator. I know around half of the clubs I have been to do not have a screen between the lathe and the audience. This means  no protection to the front row of the members at all. Would it not be a good idea for all clubs to provide this as standard.

If I take my lathe to a show or demo a screen is always attached to my lathe stand. This is part of my risk assessment. If I failed to proved a screen I am sure my insurance company would void my insurance. Who is going to responsible at the club if no screen is provided, the club or the demonstrator. 

Philip

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

Hello Philip,you have answered your own question here. If a risk assessment requires the use of a screen then the demonstrator in question should use one.

[Paul Hannaby]

I think It's up to both the club and demonstrator to do a risk assessment and based on the identified risks, take appropriate precautions. I would suggest the use of a screen would depend on what was being turned and how it was being turned. For example, if you were turning something the size of a light pull, how much damage would it actually do if it hit someone sitting 10 feet away? Try the same for a scenario where you were turning an 18" bowl and the outcome might be different.

Some clubs approach the problem from a different angle by leaving a gap in the seating so if something did come off the lathe and head towards the audience, it would pass through the middle without making contact with anyone.

Perhaps also worth considering here is who is in the audience. In the case of a public demonstration, viewers could be people with absolutely no idea of the hazards of woodturning so a screen would act as a physical barrier, preventing them from coming into contact with the rotating machinery and workpiece. Conversely, in a club environment could it be assumed that the members of the audience were aware of the potential hazards and would act differently as a result. i.e. they wouldn't get too close to the lathe while it was in use.

I don't think there is a one size fits all answer to this one!

[Mark Sanger]

yes, no and possibly, I have seen screens used and chippings and shrapnel have been flying over the top into the eyes of onlookers with some turning away to take the bits out of their eyes, so in that instance the screen was of little use. Consideration of the processes being used/demonstrated should for my thinking also be considered and a screen not seen as a licence to do anything as such a technique may negate the fact that a screen is located in the first place.

If a sound piece of wood is being turned at a low speed taking into account that a shield is not in place with the audience (sat down) a suitable distance then it may be appropriate to turn, if you can show you thought about the risks and addressed them IE using sound wood, simple project as low speed then you may be ok. Thing is the safest way to prevent any injury is not to turn or switch the lathe on but that is the ridiculous end of the spectrum so assessing the risks means that a single cover all assessment may not be suitable.

[Mark Sanger]

ha ha John and Paul replied just as I hit send, however it appears we are thinking along the same lines. 

[Graham]

There have been numerous threads on here about the need for glass inserts in tealights, the answer always being that needed or not you should probably use them to be on the safe side.

Why is this any different ?

[Philip Greenwood]

The main reason to ask this question about screens was to receive the view point  from other demonstrators, and also from clubs. I have been to one club and the seats on the front row was only 3' or 1m from the lathe, no screen. I like other demonstrators will ensure the safety of other at all times.

[GBF]

For most of my Demo's I turn the lathe at a right angle to the audience as most of the work you do is then facing them and with the tailstock removed they can see quite clearly every detail of what is happening and if anything does come off it will not be going towards the audience. The only time a lathe needs to be parallel to they audience is when spindle turning and the risk then is minimal.

Regards George

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

There have been numerous threads on here about the need for glass inserts in tealights, the answer always being that needed or not you should probably use them to be on the safe side.

Why is this any different ?

Graham this is an entirely different scenario. We know that you should not leave candles unattended but people do and so we negate the risks of fire breaking out due to an unsupervised candle. An experienced woodturner/demonstrator will understand the risks of his/her particular demonstration and take steps to reduce any perceived dangers to themselves and others, in effect they will carry out a risk assessment. If that risk assessment deems it necessary to have a screen then a screen should be used. IMHO it would be a necessity if the demonstrator is a novice demonstrator or has limited experience at turning, in which case he/she should not be demonstrating I know, but it does happen.

[bodrighywood]

Also if you are demonstrating, as I do occassionally0 the sort of things I make you know that there is a chance of something breaking and coming flying off. When doing it in a public place e.g. shoews etc I always have a screen and stop the curious coming around to see from the side. At clubs when you are using the clubs equipment screens are rarely provided and I always make sure thatthe nearest row is far enouigh away and state at thee beginning that things may fall apart if I am doing that sort of thing. I do also have a way of making sure that if something does break it is relatively safe. Bottom line, if you are demonstrating I believe it is your responsibility to ensure the safety of the audience, not the clubs or other venues. I am insured for demos etc but if I didn't have some sort of risk assessment and take suitable safety precautions I doubt it would be valid.

Pete

[Graham]

Mmmm
If I were sat in the the audience and was killed by a flying bit of wood I am sure SWMBO would be comforted by the fact that you have insurance.
Screens have been invented, why nor use one ?

[bodrighywood]

If you have insurance Graham you make darn sure that you set up all the necessary precautions so that you aren't liable. When demonstarating at a club, to a certain extent H&S is a mutual responsibility and both demonstrator and the club should make all possible arrangements to assure safety of everyone. Doesn't always happen though. I am not suggesting that if insured don't worry, trust me I am not quite that callous.

Pete

[Graham]

I wasn't aiming anything at you Pete, my post just happened to follow yours.

Actually I think George has the right answer to this.

[Mark Sanger]

While I fully agree screens should be used if deemed, but I can't help wondering if people think the risk is so great that they will be caused serious injury (which if the club and demonstrator has taken into account all necessary precautions would not happen) then why do people sit at the front close to the lathe and are more interested in seeing what is going on than their own safety. ??

Of course I fully understand that some may not fully be aware of any dangers especially if they are new to turning, so for my way of thinking it should not only be the demonstrator who addresses the H&S of the members but also the Chairman/committee of the club. Example of this is when I go to my local agricultural show to watch the White Helmets motorcycle display team,  it isn't the display team that have to erect the substantial wooden fence to protect the public but the organisers, the display team are there to demonstrate their skills, so is it not also up to clubs to supply safety screens/good quality video and screens so people do not have to get so close. ?

Screens aside, should demonstrators stop people picking up their tools in case they cut themselves, or merely hold them at a distance and tell them not to touch. What about the pieces on display, what if someone drops a form and someone else steps back onto it, trips over knocking into people who then spill there hot drinks over the electrics on the floor. ??

Apologies Philip the last bit is going off track, but it gets my goat that H&S is often voiced as 'someone else's fault I got injured'. 

[bodrighywood]

I.E mark, where do you draw the line. Perhaps that sadly lacking human trait of 'common sense' is needed? With so much H&S ruling everywhere perhaps people don't feel that they need to think for themselves anymore?

Pete