Tuition or no tuition.

[GBF]

Does it make sense in your opinion to have paid tuition.
I have had paid tuition with Don White.Dave register,Les Thorn.Nick Agar and Mark Sanger.
And in July I am having a day with Gary Rance cutesy of the AWGB so that speaks for itself.

Regards George

[David Buskell]

Yes, it always paid to have paid tuition - amateurs, hobbyists and professionals alike should. We can all learn something new from each other. My paid tuition came from Frank Clark, Colin Simpson, Greg Moreton and Jimmy Clewes - all were worth every penny.

It's now accepted that anyone going to a pro for tuition should ask if they (the pro) have had any tuition recently.

There's no one that knows it all!

David

[Graham]

It's now accepted that anyone going to a pro for tuition should ask if they (the pro) have had any tuition recently.

David

Really ?

[farmerphil]

Tuition makes sense, whether paid or free.
I don't really care whether the tutor has had recent tuition themselves but what matters is that they can get the message across to the pupil and helps reach the outcome wished for from the start.

[seventhdevil]

if the customer believes that it was worth paying for tuition then yes it's worth it.


personally i have never had any tuition and i feel competent enough doing what i do at the moment. if i wished to branch out into other areas of turning that i had not yet tried (such as large hollow forms) then i would consider getting either a video or at least watching someone who knew what they were doing.

[Les Symonds]

George....I've got to where I am without tuition! Is that a good thing? My family think so; but 'No', it is not. I am aware that my learning process is comparatively slow. I make something in a way that I find works for me, then I make it again, and again. Each time that I replicate my work I learn more and more about it, then I move on and try something else. I'm under no delusions here - had I continued to make more and more similar pieces, my technique may well have developed more and more, but it didn't, because I moved on to something else.
Last summer I had the privilege to meet Mark Sanger at his home workshop. The plan was to have a chat and to pick his brain, but Mark saw through my plan, took me to his workshop and, the next thing you know, he had me practicing techniques of gouge control that have since saved me hours of work sanding to compensate for my previous lack of technique.
My answer is simple.....tuition (paid or unpaid)  from anyone of a higher skill-level than one's self, is indispensable. The strange thing is that I have been a successful tutor, trainer and teacher for the last 20 years - how come it took me so long to realise that I needed a tutor?

Les

[Steve Jones]

It makes a lot of sense to have tuition. But remember just because you pay for it doesn't mean it's good.
Not all pros make good tutors,(I am one who finds it difficult to pass on my knowledge) make sure your tutor comes reccommended.
Everyone has to learn the basics first and in my opinion even though there is a huge range of books and videos you can not beat the hands on approach with the help of an expert.
Nobody knows it all and we never stop learning.
I was lucky to be taught, as an aprentice, by my Grandfatherand the fact our family have been woodturners for hundreds of years must help. I had 18 years full time with my Grandfather but am still learning.

[John D Smith]

          Well said Steve I think that sums it up very well I have had a small amount of tuition but I wish I had more.

                                                             Regards John

[malcy]

To me, the answer is definitely yes, whether paid for or free. I've learnt woodturning from a few lessons in a class and one to one, and also from videos. The direct tuition  path to me is always better, whether in a class  or one to one. You can learn so much more from a tutor who stands by your side and offers advice as you turn . Malcolm.

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

I too was lucky to be shown as an apprentice but that was a long time ago and really it was quite different to the modern techniques practiced these days. Even as a kid I was one of those types that  was never afraid to ask questions, sometimes the same question over and again until I understood and I still do it to this day. If I see someone doing something and I want to know about it I will ask, I have to say that not everyone I ask gives me the answer but I ask anyway.
       I will ask professional turners and hobby turners as all I am interested in is learning, no matter from whom, and I take is as a compliment if asked by a fellow professional and as a matter of professional curtesy I usually give the answer. MY father used to tell me to never give away my trade secrets to anyone but I think turning is different (he was a joiner)and we do like to share knowledge.
          But what if I was asked by a hobby turner? I hear you ask. Well the same principle is applied and I am happy to answer questions (I even encourage demonstration attendees to email me if they want to know something once I have left their club)but there is a thin divide between answering a question and giving a lesson for free!! Apart from that I was never in a position to be able to afford woodturning lessons.

[ALAN THOMAS RPT]

In my opinion having tuition is a must. The learning process is much quicker and also much safer. When I started turning in the 80's I didn't have the benefit of anyone to teach me so I learned the basics from Keith Rowley's book. Progress was slow as I had no-one to show me where I was going wrong or to show me a better way. Once I found out about courses I went to Craft Supplies and had a weekend with Jamie Walwin. After that experience I have spent time and (sometimes) money with several professional turners including Phil Irons, Jimmy Clewes and the late Bert Marsh. Each of these turners gave me another set of techniques and insights into woodturning but I have also learned a lot from just watching other turners at shows etc and asking questions.This in no way replaces proper tuition but maybe highlights areas where you need help. As Steve said if you pay for your learning you are expecting that the tutor is at least competent to pass on the information you need,and courses are not cheap! Another decision is whether you are happy to be one of several students or have one to one sessions. I both teach and demonstrate and I am always happy to answer questions or demonstrate a technique when I am out and about at shows or demo's ( or by email after a demo ) but as John said there comes a point where an answer becomes a free lesson.     

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

Something that I remembered today, which makes me in favour of having lessons is when I decided to learn how to chase threads. Now I'm not stupid (STOP GIGGLING GEORGE !!) but trying to learn that from a book was hard work for me. It kept on about striking the thread and to be honest I didn't know what that meant. Now I (obviously) don't put this down to me being a bit thick I put it down to poorly descriptive texts as whoever wrote the book assumed I would know what strike the thread meant. But struggle I did and persevere I did and I can now chase threads.

[Paul Hannaby]

I didn't have any lessons but in hindsight, I would have probably found out much quicker you don't use every tool like a scraper if I had! :-)

There are some advantages of teaching yourself too. That way you aren't influenced by one particular way of working. Whether that outweighs the disadvantages is debatable but I guess that depends on what you are trying to learn.

We shouldn't overlook that there are many ways to learn - books, magazine articles, videos, demonstrations and events like the AWGB seminar are good opportunities to learn things we might not otherwise have access to.

One thing that does worry me is the volume of videos on the web that are obviously produced by inexperienced "turners" (I use the term loosely!  ) that show dangerous practices. Unfortunately that would be a difficult thing to prevent. I guess until someone gets sued for demonstrating dangerous techniques that cause someone to injure themselves there won't be much of a deterrent.

[GBF]

In my first comment I said does it pay to have paid tuition so it would suggest if it is paid tuition then it will be with a Pro turner as amateurs do not charge for tuition.
For this reason it would be fair to say that Pro turners are sure to support tuition as this is part of their income and that is obviously true.But that does not alter the fact that tuition is a short cut to accomplishing your goal to be a proficient turner.
But and there is always a but only  tuition like experience and practice are good if they are good tuition good experience and good practice.
The important thing when you decide to have tuition is to do your homework and target the tutor that teaches you what you want to learn.
Don't go to a tutor because he is the cheapest go to the best for you,the price will not be that much different and you will possibly get more for your money.
Another thing I think is very important is how many students will be on your course and this will make a big difference to the amount of attention you get.I have had a number of students come to me for tuition and tell me they have been on courses where they are six students to one tutor and they got very little out of it.
I personally will take a maximum of two students so that I can give them plenty of time and keep them safe.

Regards George

[burywoodturners]

I have had two three day 'paid' tuition, one with turner called Mike Mc Quaid in Wiltshire and one with Chris Childs in Great Yeldham.
I took the first one because I wanted to take up turning and I had not got a clue as to where to start, so I went into a travel agent and asked! They found the one in Wiltshire where I got the three days and full board. One of the things  I learnt was that there were woodworking magazines and that people advertised turning classes!

My main reasons were to get started and to see if I could turn before I bought my first lathe. That reason alone makes it an investment worth making. The one with Chris Childs a year or so later was to improve my skills and by then I had questions to ask.

So one reason for paid tuition is to try before you buy! The reasons of tool handling and 'elf and safety were also important. I was also encouraged to make things I would not have tried on my own, a turned box with a well fitting lid was one example.

Twenty years later I ended up as club secretary and I am responsible for booking demonstrators and what are they if not a form of paid tuition?

Along with this I read magazines, now I know there are some, and share tips with my mates.

At the end of the day though, all this is advice and support, the real learning begins when you are alone in your shed with a nice new set of tools a lathe a chuck and a somewhat slimmer wallet!

Ron