Demonstrators

[David Buskell]

Just logged on but Philip's away from the screen at the moment. I'll catch up with him later. Visuals look better than on Skype - first impressions anyway.

David

[David Buskell]

On line now - picture looks good and sound is fine.

David

[Bryan Milham]

Philip,

I've just been watching you (live) - tried to say thank you on the UStream site but it wanted me to sign up - Nah, not another site, I've too many passwords etc already. So Thank you indeed.

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

I couldn't take part in the events last night as it was club night, but reading this through has raised another "issue" with me.
    I agree that most clubs or halls will have or be able to get the facilities to receive  some sort of live feed from somewhere in the world. I do echo John's concerns about the feed dying halfway through the demo, in a club that may not be a problem but if you have paying customers it will be a different situation, although that in itself may help speed up the process of upgrading all the infrastructure needed. But my concern would relate to club membership numbers, if this took off and was successful would this then sound the death toll of woodturning clubs? Why leave home to sit in draughty old village hall with a group of old men when you could sit and watch in the comfort of your own home? Conversely, for those that live too far from a club this could provide the incentive to get turning in the first place and therefore become an aid to preserving the craft.

[PhilipS]

Thanks to those last night that took the time to look in. It was a trial run to see what the difficulties might be. It was not that satisfactory in that I am learning the limitations of Ustream but the picture quality and sound seemed to be okay. I have to tweak my camera set up to get the picture quality better and get to grips with the supplementary software that will extend the possibilities in a presentation.
Although it would seem from thie early experiment that things could work it would be for others to make use of it. I have an online reputation that would seem to preclude others wanting to engage so I for one see no value in taking things beyond the experiment stage.
This method does however suit my purpose which is to help those who may want to make contact one to one after seeing something I may be doing online in a work in progress session or to ask questions or have some support for creative endeavour.
The piece I was working on last night will be a continuing process for a few days. I am doing a course at the end of the month to learn some new paint techniques and for my learning I need something with multiple surface treatments to test the method.
I will be online again later today and probably this evening where I will be testing Skype with David.
I don't see this as a threat to anything just an opportunity to extend what may be available to entertain members on Club nights.
For those who wish to take a look the direct link to the Ustream Channel seems to offer a better resolution than the link on my website.  
A distance learning course with written material combined with videos and live support might be an interesting thing to investigate.

[David Buskell]

Just add my thoughts to those from Thursday's experiment. Streaming does work and the HD pictures were good. Sound is also good but the key limitation for me was not being able to talk directly to Philip. Instant messaging is fine in some circumstances but obviously not for this purpose.

Skype may provide a better inter-action but not sure about sound and picture - yet.

Thanks to Philip for setting this experiment up -it's the only way we can all learn about these things.

David

[David Buskell]

Just seen BHT's response.

If the Skype idea works, then this has the potential to dramatically INCREASE  membership numbers. Why sit at home when you can come to a drafty church hall and see international turners direct from their workshops to your club?

There are plenty of other sources where you can sit and watch a presenter without any interaction - see the reams of videos on YouTube, for example. The key idea to embracing new tech is to provide interaction, which is what all clubs thrive on with their demonstrators -well, at least some of them, others can't be bothered to raise their voice or speak to the audience (no names, no pack drill).

The concept is simple: we have a turner we would like to have at the club, he lives 250 miles away therefore mileage costs are excessive. Answer: use skype so demonstrator comes to us direct from his workshop. No mileage, same/possibly higher fee (depending on circumstances) Result: everyone happy.

I will be taking my laptop to our club this coming Wednesday to check the wifi connection so if you are on ustream or on skype, you may get a call from me sometime after 8pm!

David

PS if BHT gets Skype up on his computer, happy to have a conversation with him from my workshop

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

thanks for that Dave,
I'm having trouble with Skype at the moment which highlights another problem with this system which no technology in the world can fix.................I appear to have forgotten my password!!
Carrying on from what Dave has said I dothink this may be the way ahead especially for those that live a long way away. I must admit that I would quite like to go down the workshop and give a live demo rather than drive for 3 1/2 hours like I did the other night just to earn £80. Another plus for this is the demos could then be a bit longer as there would be no "set up" time. I remember forgetting my chuck key on one occasion and had to rethink the demo as I went along, this would not happen if I was in my own workshop.

[PhilipS]

BHT, if you go to open Skype you will see just below the login a link where you can reset the password.

David, I was around last night but couldn't see you online so tried a Skype link between my two accounts, the picture quality was good. The type of webcam seems to be the key for good quality. I used two independent webcams i.e. not integrated ones. The HD version gave good quality an older one poorer.
 I was thinking about your observation on using two cameras to stream, not possible as far as I can see in Skype but might be possible using two Skype accounts each end.  This would require some kind of dual input switching box gizmo between the computers and the projector so that you could alternate smoothly between streams.

Another problem I found with Skype is the broadcaster has a small image so it is difficult to see precisely what is being seen the receiving end. I got round this by using my netbook close to my workspace and my second Skype account to view and see clearly what was being broadcast.

I have now received my Bluetooth headset from China but am yet to discover if it will work.

If you want try to link on Wednesday let me know.

Philip

[andersonec]

Thanks to those last night that took the time to look in. It was a trial run to see what the difficulties might be. It was not that satisfactory in that I am learning the limitations of Ustream but the picture quality and sound seemed to be okay. I have to tweak my camera set up to get the picture quality better and get to grips with the supplementary software that will extend the possibilities in a presentation.
Although it would seem from thie early experiment that things could work it would be for others to make use of it. I have an online reputation that would seem to preclude others wanting to engage so I for one see no value in taking things beyond the experiment stage.
This method does however suit my purpose which is to help those who may want to make contact one to one after seeing something I may be doing online in a work in progress session or to ask questions or have some support for creative endeavour.
The piece I was working on last night will be a continuing process for a few days. I am doing a course at the end of the month to learn some new paint techniques and for my learning I need something with multiple surface treatments to test the method.
I will be online again later today and probably this evening where I will be testing Skype with David.
I don't see this as a threat to anything just an opportunity to extend what may be available to entertain members on Club nights.
For those who wish to take a look the direct link to the Ustream Channel seems to offer a better resolution than the link on my website.  
A distance learning course with written material combined with videos and live support might be an interesting thing to investigate.

  Fantastic to see things being tried out, as I said before, the technology is there so why not use it? I am not a gadget freak and still have an old 'mobile phone' which only ever gets used when I go out and want to phone 'er indoors.
I do not think these type of things will ever take over from demonstrators visiting clubs, but it will or at least could extend the things a club will be able to present to it's members, it does not necessarily have to be turners from abroad but it could allow clubs access to British turners who live at the other end of the country and it will not be the same as watching a video.

Andy

[David Buskell]

Just had a very interesting chat over Skype with BHT. Good video and clear sound despite the couple of hundred miles between us.

David

[andersonec]

Just had a very interesting chat over Skype with BHT. Good video and clear sound despite the couple of hundred miles between us.

David

So David, after speaking on Skype,do you think it has the potential to be used by clubs to extend the range of their demonstrators?

Andy

[Rlewisrlou666]

This looks like a great idea.

[David Buskell]

Andy,

I'm a firm believer in Skype and use it for all international calls so am a bit biased!

I think that any voice over internet protocol is good and can be used for demos but the key issue is ensuring there is a good wi-fi link between the parties. Our venue does have wi-fi but it is security protected so I cannot complete the test I would like to carry out. If I can crack the code then I;ll Skype from the hall and see what quality I get. My laptop can plug into our projection system so we would have full screen.

If that works, the next stage would be to find out a demonstrator who has the set-up at the other end to do a trial run. That is an easier task, as I know someone who would do this for us.

One other thought that's just occurred to me: you can have group conversations on Skype so in theory, you could have more than one club linked into the call/demo.

You've probably also logged in to Philip's stream from his workshop so we now have a couple of possibilities to consider.

Do feel free to continue the discussion over Skype - use World Domination Music as contact.

David

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

Yes now that I have finally managed to get back on Skype.....we just turned it all off and turned it back on again! but according to my expert it is knowing when to do that that counts  so I had a Skype contact with Dave. The picture was quite good and there was nothing wrong with the sound. I still think that if it is going to work you will need 2 people at the demonstrator's end so that one can relay questions or move the camera as needed. I also think that a camera should be provided at the other end so that when asked a question you can see who you are talking to. I do not wish to be negative but I have just thought of something that could not happen using this system, you would not be able to pass a piece around the audience as I and other demonstrators do but this may be overcome by proper planning and the post office. Does anyone know the working distance of wifi?