Author Topic: Demonstrators  (Read 45718 times)

Offline The Bowler Hatted Turner

  • platinum
  • *****
  • Posts: 2256
Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #60 on: September 30, 2014, 10:09:15 PM »
So apart from being a live transmission, what would the difference be between watching a Skype demo or a DVD? Taking on board Philip's comments about cameras etc. perhaps it would be easier to commission a DVD from your chosen demonstrator about your chosen subject.But this then would bring problems of its own, if a club pays for the DVD you may have a reduced attendance at your club meeting as members could rent a copy from the club, this could also be a positive outcome.

Offline John D Smith

  • platinum
  • *****
  • Posts: 1336
Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #61 on: October 01, 2014, 10:37:11 AM »
Hi
   How many clubs meet at village Halls etc.where there is a high speed broadband connection? then there is the expense of new cameras and everything

else that goes with this method.

Also the demonstrator would have to buy all this equipment and pay someone to operate the cameras etc.it seems to me this is pie in the sky.  ::) ::)

                                              Regards John
John Smith

Offline Woodcrafts

  • bronze
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
  • Passing on skills to the next generation
Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #62 on: October 01, 2014, 11:12:56 AM »
Hi
How many clubs meet at village Halls etc.where there is a high speed broadband connection? then there is the expense of new cameras and everything else that goes with this method.

Also the demonstrator would have to buy all this equipment and pay someone to operate the cameras etc.it seems to me this is pie in the sky.  ::) ::)
                                              Regards John
I have been watching this thread with interest, as both a demonstrator and a club secretary.

Although I am a great supporter of technology, having provided camera systems for several clubs, use computers for all sorts of things, even Skype to 'talk' to my family, I think John has hit the nail on the head with both statements; on availability of broadband at both ends, club and demonstrator, and cost of the equipment and it's use.

My workshop is on a farm estate, with no hope of the level of broadband for even a basic Skype connection. And my travel expenses would just be replaced with the cost of the equipment and someone to use it whilst I was 'demonstrating'. I also think it would be difficult to engage with an audience remotely. I like all the audience to ask questions, and to reply to the individuals by talking to them 'face to face'. Would the setups being proposed have a camera at the 'audience end' so the demonstrator could respond properly? If so, how would this work if the demo was being watched by multiple clubs?

Nice idea, but I guess not really practical for the majority of us.
Regards,
Paul Bellamy - Woodcrafts

Offline bodrighywood

  • platinum
  • *****
  • Posts: 3631
    • Bodrighy Wood
Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #63 on: October 01, 2014, 12:22:11 PM »
Being a demonstrator is all about interaction IMHO. With FaceBook, Twitter etc we already seem to have lost a lot of that personal touch in our relationships and though there is no doubt a place for the type of thing being suggested (Skype etc) I do feel that if that were to become the norm a lot of people would feel out of touch and it would be no different to watching a video. The average age of the members of clubs is fairly high at the moment though hopefully that will change, and it can often   be hard enough getting people to respond when doing a demonstration so I am doubtful that having 'distant' demos via electronic means would go down well in many clubs. If demonstrating were purely a matter of showing how something is made then maybe but how often do those of us who demonstrate get asked all sorts of peripheral questions from 'why do you grind your tools to that shape' to 'where do you get your wood.' Personally I have no problem with the idea of using other methods of demonstrating but as an alternative for a meeting, not as a substitute for the personal, man / woman up front

Pete
Turners don't make mistakes, they have design opportunities

PhilipS

  • Guest
Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #64 on: October 02, 2014, 12:07:55 PM »
I am giving a talk next year and will be preparing some new work to illustrate creative thinking and doing. So as an experiment I will be showing an occasional live feed from my website.

If anyone wishes to see how video might supplement a talk or demo then take an occasional peek to see work in progress. I am waiting for fibre broadband to be rolled out locally so initially it will be a lowish resolution feed. It will probably be a silent feed and interaction with the method I will be using won't be possible.

Details will be found on my Blog and Twitter where questions and comments can be posted.

Philip

Offline malcy

  • gold
  • ****
  • Posts: 456
Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #65 on: October 02, 2014, 07:54:02 PM »
Before I retired I used to work for a large international company. We used video conferencing for a period to reduce travelling expenses etc and it seemed to be ok for a while. Then we gradually moved back to one to one meetings with the occasional video call. This was precisely because there is nothing like one to one contact. You can read a lot from a person's stance, mannerisms, gestures etc which you wouldn't necessarily see on a video link. The atmosphere at a one to one meeting is totally different. I have also attended a couple of video link seminars, and to me they don't really work. You can learn some things from DVDs etc but there is nothing like being there with the demonstrator. That's my pennies worth anyway. Malcolm.

PhilipS

  • Guest
Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #66 on: October 03, 2014, 11:46:14 AM »
As usual I am out of sync with current thinking but I see any initiative that may help facilitate learning and the advancement of the craft to be an opportunity.

Skype or similar may not be suitable for some demonstrations, some demonstrators or some watching but if nobody gives it a try there is no knowledge base for what may work and what may not.


Offline David Buskell

  • gold
  • ****
  • Posts: 446
    • At The Cutting Edge
Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #67 on: October 03, 2014, 12:47:52 PM »
I can sympathise with Malcy's views as my company, a large music licensing organisation, used video conferencing a lot even between its two sites in Central and South London. With the right kit and set-up, the facility was great and saved a bunch of us travelling up and down to town.

We all agree that one to one is the very best but as Philip says, the technology is now here and we should try it. It may not work for all but unless we try, we won't know!

Having said all this about technology, the Skype line to Beijing has just died on me!

David
David
At The Cutting Edge

Offline David Buskell

  • gold
  • ****
  • Posts: 446
    • At The Cutting Edge
Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #68 on: October 03, 2014, 12:49:16 PM »
Breaking news! Line to Beijing now back up!

D.
David
At The Cutting Edge

Offline John D Smith

  • platinum
  • *****
  • Posts: 1336
Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #69 on: October 03, 2014, 04:18:51 PM »
Hello Philip & David,
                              I am not one to halt progress but as a Club Secretary and Treasurer I think we have to be realistic about things firstly we should

consider the cost implications to clubs we are not a rich bunch  and even reading both of your comments about the speed of Broadband required and the

expense of new equipment it would not be viable for I would say 99% of Clubs or Demonstrators you also mention about Skype going down what do we do if

that happens in the middle of a demo? as for one to one being the best "Yes it is" we had a demo last night at our club and the banter and questions  was

great all part of the enjoyment of the evening.David you no doubt work for large company with an endless pot of money.

Call me a Nerd if you like as I said earlier Let us be Realistic.  ???

                                                                     Regards John
John Smith

andersonec

  • Guest
Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #70 on: October 03, 2014, 06:41:17 PM »
Hello Philip & David,
                              I am not one to halt progress but as a Club Secretary and Treasurer I think we have to be realistic about things firstly we should

consider the cost implications to clubs we are not a rich bunch  and even reading both of your comments about the speed of Broadband required and the

expense of new equipment it would not be viable for I would say 99% of Clubs or Demonstrators you also mention about Skype going down what do we do if

that happens in the middle of a demo? as for one to one being the best "Yes it is" we had a demo last night at our club and the banter and questions  was

great all part of the enjoyment of the evening.David you no doubt work for large company with an endless pot of money.

Call me a Nerd if you like as I said earlier Let us be Realistic.  ???

                                                                     Regards John


John.

I know this has wandered off the original thoughts at the start of this thread but this is an interesting turn.


It seems most clubs have the same sort of set-up, a camera and a couple of screens for viewing so I would have thought you had most of the equipment needed in the club at the moment, a screen and someone with a laptop, if you meet in a village hall then I would have thought Wi fi would be available.

I live out in the country in Lincolnshire and my broadband speed is a thundering 2.8 mb/s at it's best (must be one of the slowest in the country) but I speak with a chum is Australia on a regular basis and that slow speed has no effect whatsoever, just the same as when I talk to friends in this country or Spain.

If the technology is there then why not try and exploit it? everybody else is, how many woodturning dvd's do people use to learn and how many times have folks watched video's on the net trying to learn something, just the same but live.


Andy

Offline John D Smith

  • platinum
  • *****
  • Posts: 1336
Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #71 on: October 03, 2014, 07:50:58 PM »
Hi Andy,
            Thank you for your reply I thought I read that you needed fast Broadband. Yes at our Club we do have cameras and a large TV as a screen Yes it will 

be interesting to see if anyone has a try at this I will watch this thread with interest.

                                                                                                 Regards John
John Smith

Offline woodndesign

  • platinum
  • *****
  • Posts: 2211
  • Cannock Staffordshire
Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #72 on: October 03, 2014, 09:26:12 PM »

I can vouch that it's possible to work. My wife has made many video links with family home in Texas, best way to 'see' everybody, everything and keep up with current events.

We'd done that first in front a remote camera, then the built in notebook camera for sometime, now with the ipad it's all the better with being able to switch the camera from the screen, (we see us and who we're contacting) or to the back lens, it makes it easy to see what we're filming .. even myself turning, which the wife did, sent from the shop in the back of the garden, the modem has to be 50yds or more away at the front of the house, no down time/delay at all.

The other advantage with an ipad, with an adapter lead you can connect HDMI straight to a TV ... now that's scary seeing oneself on a larger screen.

For all the technology today ... the end will always be we'll want to see the best (if only as entertainment) and have personal interaction with any demonstration as long as we have the demonstrators, should they, or the club want to video the event, that's down to the individuals involved.

Cheers  David
"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times,"  By Dickens ''''

PhilipS

  • Guest
Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #73 on: October 04, 2014, 09:49:37 AM »
John, I think I was describing the need for high speed broadband for high definition feeds. Currently I have no idea what the quality of picture would be from a projected low resolution image so this is the reason for trying things out.
Andy is right that most clubs have most of the equipment already. The speed of broadband is is not necessarily the deciding factor in success. The capability of the broadcasting and receiving computers to process the data is also something that needs to be considered. So having a go sorts out the possibilities and the potential problems.

Philip

PhilipS

  • Guest
Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #74 on: October 09, 2014, 05:31:07 PM »
Here is what streaming looks like. I can talk to you if you wish but you will need to use the text chat.

http://ustre.am/1hWqs

I'll be there later on say 8pm onwards for a while if you would like to take a look and ask any questions.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 11:56:17 PM by PhilipS »