Design and Inspiration

[Mark Sanger]

John

Your project sounds interesting and I look forward to seeing when it is finished.

The method of designing a piece I have shown here is not something that needs to be done every time and after a few you get the hang of seeing the form by eye as it is made. I am sure there are forms that you can make without having to measure out the main shape etc.

Working via a CAD system means you can make errors on the screen/paper long before going to the lathe.

In relation to your project another way to help with a project to first do a storyboard, this is something that we did in Ireland for the wall project. It can help with brain storming and ideas.

It is basically a collection of pictures and materials to inspire you connected with the project you are undertaking.

So for yours you could research and collect pictures that you like of Troika, pewter, and or other uses of the colours. The pictures are not intended to be copied but to stimulate thoughts and ideas from what you see and use them within the piece. It could include text, poems, songs anything to stimulate your in to thinking about the project you are making.

Photo courtesy of Harry Reid

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

Thank you Mark,
JohnBHT

[Bryan Milham]

I have tried the 'Listen to the wood while turning it' technique, it does not work for me.

But if I find a special piece of timber I've been known to sit it on a shelf and look at it until I can see what's hidden inside, or more, what I want it to be.

To me the most creative method is to make something (I made eggs) and keep pushing the design to see where you can take it. So from an Egg, to hollow eggs, to long thin egg shaped forms with fancy stands and finails (sort of boxes) but I finished up with the hollwed Banksia pods (pure egg shape ) on driftwood http://www.awgb.co.uk/awgbforum/index.php/topic,888.0.html

I think that is why I find turners 'Series' work so interesting - you can follow the development of an idea to the final conclusion.

[Mark Sanger]

I have tried the 'Listen to the wood while turning it' technique, it does not work for me.

But if I find a special piece of timber I've been known to sit it on a shelf and look at it until I can see what's hidden inside, or more, what I want it to be.

To me the most creative method is to make something (I made eggs) and keep pushing the design to see where you can take it. So from an Egg, to hollow eggs, to long thin egg shaped forms with fancy stands and finails (sort of boxes) but I finished up with the hollwed Banksia pods (pure egg shape ) on driftwood http://www.awgb.co.uk/awgbforum/index.php/topic,888.0.html

I think that is why I find turners 'Series' work so interesting - you can follow the development of an idea to the final conclusion.

Bryan

That is fantastic and thank you for sharing the way you work. This is just what I was hoping for, for us all to discuss how we work, what we find helps or where we find difficulty. My way may not work for all and bouncing ideas off of each other is a great way to brainstorm.

Would you mind adding the picture of your banksia pod sculpture here so that it adds to the discussion and people can see how you arrived at the end result.

Beautiful piece. Thanks for sharing.

[bodrighywood]

I find that I start with an idea and then end up doing a load of pieces in the same vein. I don't exactly let the wood dictate design but often make something that will fit the wood as far as size etc is concerned. Often I make something and then it ends up on the shelf for ages while I try it on different bases or with different finials, lids etc. One piece seems to direct to the next one and so I suppose it is a series as  Bryan mentioned. I have always loved oriental ceramics and the simplicity of the designs and so after some direction from another turner I started looking into the various shapes and designs. I find that each one is different even if I try and make the shape the same as I let the wood provide any decoration e.g. the figuring, natural faults etc. I suspect very few of us can claim to make or design things that aren't influenced by something that someone has done before and often wonder who had the original ideas? A highlight for me was a t a wood show recently a lady stopped and said she liked the Japanese style work I had on display. She was Japanese.

Pete

[woodndesign]

There are those forms of turning which are dictated by the timber, mainly if the piece has been cored out, then you're presented with very nice set of nesting bowls or by the thickness and movement of the timber as to what can be returned from the piece, a set form.

Segmented is another, should it not be designed nor planned, right down to grain alignment for best glue up, the timber and assembly dictates.

Many are also faced at first with pre-cut blanks of a some what small size, with which there are limitations, with Paul, as with most it can also be the case with Equipment/Tools ....  it's where you can read " I then hold in my vacuum chuck " WHAT!! the job ends here... Oh .. it's sooo often hold by your usual way to finish ..

On the note of design something which I have found interesting for inspiration in the past, as much as now, are Miller's Antiques Handbooks ...  http://www.amazon.co.uk/Millers-Antiques-Handbook-Price-2012-2013/dp/1845336364 ... been produced for years now, so copies can find there way into Charity Shops very cheap .. not just to look for Ceramics & Glass .. but Silver & Metalware, Lamps, Candlesticks, Furniture and within Pictures for designs and not just for Woodenware.

Or why not just google any related word to what you're looking to make, it fuels you with ideas to draw from and expand on.

Cheers  David

[malcy]

Hi Mark. This is a very interesting thread and discussion. I have to confess that a piece of wood ready for the lathe does little to inspire me into creating something. If making for example a platter with a coloured rim, I will make the platter and then try different ways to colour, making patterns or whatever. The colouring and patterning is the creative part for me and it just develops as I go along. However, I also do a lot of segmented work where preplanning and drawing is essential. So here I think about what to make, refining as time passes, and then put pencil to paper to design the creation I want. I worked for many years for a very creative American company in process and product development. We would be presented with a customer problem (not necessarily perceived by the customer) and I and others were tasked in creating and developing a solution. When the project was started, we did not know exactly what the solution would be, only a road way to it. The solution developed as we progressed, and in some cases it was close to where we started and in others completely different. What I am trying to say is that creativity comes in different forms, can be instant ( a eureka moment), or take a number of steps to get to the desired result. Some people have the right mind set to innovate and create, whilst others have little clue where to go. Creativity requires inspiration. Inspiration is all around us, in things we see, hear, feel, observe. Different things will enter the mind and come together at a random time from the subconscious, things click. I always found that people together can be great for developing something, as you say above 'brainstorming'.  Something one person says can trigger something else in your mind and help you move forward in leaps and bounds. I am trying to move into more artistic woodturning forms and have some ideas to make what I will call sculptures. I'll post when I get them done, but it may be a while. I'm afraid I have more ideas to try than time to do everything at the moment. Malcolm.

[Richard Findley]

Pete, I think compliments don't get much better than that! You certainly know you must be on the right track anyway! 

BHT, you have to start somewhere, blue is as good a place as any! Not sure your way is that bad, you kind of built upon what you initially thought.

Drag, developing an idea is a really good way of approaching it. As long as you don't get bored of the subject! Again, an egg is as good a place to start as any. I guess, with something like that, you learn as much from the journey as from anything else.

The think I struggle with, is how mountains or rivers or whatever, translate into a turning/sculpture. I know it can be done but how? That's the real talent of the artist. Which is, I guess, why I do what I do. I make other people's ideas into reality 

Something I have noticed, many of the best art pieces are actually deceptively simple, and knowing when to stop is a big part of the skill. It's the original idea that's the hard part!

Just a few thoughts,

Richard

[bodrighywood]

Something I have noticed, many of the best art pieces are actually deceptively simple, and knowing when to stop is a big part of the skill.

Richard

What I am finding as well is that if you keep it simple, no fancy beads, texturing etc, just the shape, there is nowhere to hide the tool marks sanding marks etc and the slightest fault in the shape shouts at you. I now leave any tenons etc on when I take a piece off the lathe and go back to it later as often what looks great horizontal can look awful vertical LOL.

pete

[Les Symonds]

We've had several references to the relative merits of the wood 'talking' to us and suggesting a design path to it's turner and I have to say that I find that approach a bit 'flakey' for me, but, having said that, I have quite a stock of exotics that I've inherited from former turners and I do look very closely at each piece to determine what it should make and how it should be cut-&-shaped so as best to show-off its grain. I've been making samples of my work to trawl around galleries, so have not had the constrictions of working to a customer's brief, so this approach has worked for me and has paid rewards.
However, the range of pieces that I produced taught me a lot and has suggested a load of shapes that I'd now like to try to make, some of which I wouldn't have dared to tackle on my old lathe, so perhaps now is the time to think of a more formal design process and to start making drawings before I start turning, be they pencil sketches, or IT-produced!

Les

[Mark Sanger]

Wow, it has taken off for sure.

So much input some of my thoughts on it.

Pete

That is great that the Japanese lady appreciated your work it is a great feeling.

In relation to ideas, I disagree with the notion that I often here (not that you have here) is that 'nothing is new, it's all been done before'. If this was the case companies and other makers would not be developing and releasing new products and technology that we have not seen before. There are makers out there who are coming up with new stuff all the time.

In relation to inspiration and influences, you are right many or derivative, especially our sort of work that is inspired by Far East pottery etc but being derived, so the concept of a far eastern tea caddy or lidded rice bowl is not a new idea.

But we can put our own slant on it and do something new with it that has not been done before. Finding that new, is the task.  

Then there are those pioneers that come up with totally new works we have not seen before.

David

Are the forms of turning dictated to us due to the shape of the piece we are starting with or by our imagination and experience to be able to see something else and manipulating it. ?  

A cored bowl as your example, could be used as a canvas, and yes while the canvass has a limited shape, it can be carved, pierced, coloured, textured, materials added.

It could also be cut up, carved, section glued back together to use the base form as a starting place for sculptures.

Check out the work of Michael Hosaluk.
Michael Hosaluk


Segmented certainly should be designed and planned, but does this mean creativity can not be included in this process, pieces can be segmented, cut up, joined and used for sculpture.  

Google Jerry Bennett woodturner.

Admittedly this work is way up there, but it shows what can be done, with a lot of work, practice and creativity. Not saying it is easy but then is anything that is worth doing easy.

Malcolm

Your previous experience in your job means you have a head start, brainstorming is something we did in Police training school as well and while the context for the both of us is totally different the issue of working out a solution to an problem is the same. That can be applied to creativity and design also.

When think about ideas ( no I do not think mine are the best in the world at all, but I refuse to be told that I can not do something, or get better), I never concern myself with the technical of how to. This only restricts the designs or ideas. If we are worrying about 'how to make it' then we would stay with what we know and not get beyond it. There is always a way to make something and sometimes it takes me quite some time to work it out.

My latest Swan sculpture was an instance of this. In the end I looked to traditional turning methods that had been used for over 100 hundred years to produce it.

Richard

Your point about the simplest designs working and knowing when to stop for me are very valid. I do not feel that designs have to be over complicated to have a strong impact and often feel that we try to overcomplicate to impress, perhaps, dunno, one to think about.  


Les

I hear what you say about 'the wood talking', but often I look at the way people have used the woods features and think, 'how did they think of that'. They did as it is their mind set. Look at
Terry Martin


Take a look at the front page and see how he used the woods burr crown to produce the piece he has. Ok it is a sculpture and not a turning, but this is someone that can look at a piece of wood and see how to use the same within it, let's the wood talk.

You yourself are now wanting to try new shapes etc, which shows the progression of thinking and ideas you are having.

This brings me back to what Bryan asked a while ago about ' What do you do to force a creative result' .

It has been my experience that inspiration does not come as a lightning bolt, creativity I believe can not be 'forced' to produce a result. The ideas and designs most often are developed slowly, through years of observation, refining and research and thinking.

This aside I also believe that 'being creative' or whatever you want to call it 'can' be learnt. I know it is not some magical process that only a few possess, yes there are those that pick it up more readily and will be the worlds leaders. But the rest of us can also get involved with the process and benefit from it.

Also I do not believe that being creative in woodturning means we have to move away from pure turning.
These are just my thoughts, does not mean I am in anyway right, just musing over what you said.  


So as an idea and you all may not want to do this, no matter if not. Why not lets think about what we can do with a bowl turned from a standard 6 inch dia x 3 inch bowl blank.

You don't have to make it, there is no time limit or criteria other than the blank.

Just sketch your ideas if you want. Smash it up, kick it around, cut it up, burn it, stick nails in it, anything. Or Just look at what you can do with a pure form, you may think about just texturing and colouring it in ways you have not done before.

No one has to do this if they don't want to. Up to you.

Edited as I saw more typo's than normal. 

[Bryan Milham]

I'd like to comment on Malcolm’s comment about being part of a creative team, tasked with exploring a solution.

I've always found a team effort far easier than a solo effort. me in my little workshop trying to develop an idea is one thing…

… but ask the wife,
… or have another turner visit you
… even take the idea to work and discuss over a coffee (something I can still do),

multiplies the possible answers as you bounce and modify the available ideas, tangents and off the wall thinking seems to come more naturally in groups.

Our problem is we are all solo workers (at least for the most part) it being the way of our hobby. Our creative juices are sometimes stifled by our lack of interaction which is why so many answers suggest looking at books or searching the web for that magic spark.

Think about any courses you’ve done, the way the attendee’s worked from the common thread of the subject matter to produce the work and where it led you in your turning journey.

Then you think about Marks ‘Collaborations’ last year in Australia, this year in Ireland. Look at his blog posts and see how the differing ‘artists’ all worked together, and from each other of give and expand their shared experiences.

I there is a lot to be said for a buddy system, shared time in a workshop between you and a friend, probably turn & turn about in each others workshops. I had one (Yew Turn) until we moved because of the wife’s medical condition, now it’s much harder to get ‘together’ time due to the distance between our homes.
So if you have a club member living nearby, or someone who can relate to your hobby, woodworker, machinist, or even an artist (their ideas on colour are very useful) and they see some of your work as a canvas to add interest to, try to cultivate that interaction. It will pay dividends.


Mark,

I’ll post the Banksia Pod picture later and I’ve still one of the Egg ‘Pot’s’ at home, I’ll add that as well.

[malcy]

Hi Mark. I like that idea of seeing what we can create from a 6 x 3 bowl blank. I subscribe to the segmented woodturners website , and a few times a year a challenge is put up to all members if they wish to participate. This is good as it starts with a point, similar to what you suggest here, and members are asked to make whatever within the chosen parameters. The range of forms created usually is superb. This could be the same, as we all would try to design and even produce something a little different. I'm up for it. I'll get my thinking cap on and muse over the ideas and turn something. Will post when I get there.
The point above about group participation in creating ideas and solutions is very valid, even to those of us working in our workshops on our own. Family and friends can contribute enormously, and those closest to us are usually more frank than others. Although I am a 'loner' in that I do not have a club close by, I'm sure clubs can contribute a lot here as well. The opinions and discussions about our latest work can be invaluable and give thoughts and ideas to develop further the latest masterpiece. That is why I value enormously, sites like this and others, where discussions and critics are made to make us all better and more creative turners/artists.

 Malcolm.

[woodndesign]

Mark, Thank you for your brilliant input as with everyone else's, we all have our resources and at best it's something, someone has done or it wouldn't exist, lets here from you, the more the merrier, it would then be a melting pot of ideas for all to draw out and use to expand on.

I'll hopefully find time to check out Michael's work, so far I like the chair and the locations.

You've also dispelled the myth as to cored bowls as R&B are not the only end result .. seen too many nest of bowls and Glenn's commercial work.

With Bryan and I know Pete and readily myself, if not with many other Turners, the Wife's input has it's place, normally after the event, at which point it can be I like that (for) myself, well the design must have worked, just to make another given the same timber is to hand ..   ....

Cheers  David

[Mark Sanger]

Hi all

My camera is never far away from me and last evening I took this picture while out walking my dog.

When I take picture like this I study them and think about how they inspire me to come up with ideas. Sometimes it works, sometimes not, why not have a think about how what this picture means to you if anything. From this what ideas perhaps could it produce for a piece.

The ideas do not have to be related to this picture, it could just spark an idea related.

For example, you see the moon, but you may think about howling wolves ( my daughters first reaction), from this you may think about footprints in the snow. These could be used as a pattern or carving within the rim of a bowl, etc.

Look at the colours how they contrast, may be a black and white 20's theme. !

Have a think if you want to if not no worries.