Author Topic: Spalted wood as chopping boards/serving boards  (Read 16875 times)

homeofwood

  • Guest
Spalted wood as chopping boards/serving boards
« on: July 05, 2013, 09:07:57 PM »
Hi Guys...

Would like some feedback from turners....

Is spalted wood safe to use as chopping / serving boards ? I know that some like the look and say its safe to use and some say its not. I have had a few customers use spalted beech and say its fine...

Many people have different opinions on this so please fire away

Would appreciate any comments you may have...

Paul

Offline bodrighywood

  • platinum
  • *****
  • Posts: 3631
    • Bodrighy Wood
Re: Spalted wood as chopping boards/serving boards
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2013, 10:05:49 PM »
Personally I would avoid using spalted wood for most food items and as the spalted part is usually a lot softer I would certainly avoid using it for something that will take as much abuse as a chopping board. A lot of people may say that woods that are spalted are OK but it is better to be safe than sorry.

Pete
Turners don't make mistakes, they have design opportunities

Offline john taylor

  • bronze
  • ***
  • Posts: 209
    • John Taylor Woodturner
Re: Spalted wood as chopping boards/serving boards
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2013, 10:10:51 PM »
Personally no especially if I was selling or giving the item away.

The reason is that I have seen the spalting starting up again 5 years after the piece was made due to the finish getting scratched and damp getting in.   The piece was bone dry when made.

john

woody

  • Guest
Re: Spalted wood as chopping boards/serving boards
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2013, 10:14:17 PM »
Personally I would never use it for a shopping board the spalting it produced by a fungus that releases spaws when cut (which will happen on a chopping board) and they will effect anyone with breathing problems as well as some who don't as I found out the first time I used it

also legally were would you stand if you made one for a customer and they suffered ill effects from if  

homeofwood

  • Guest
Re: Spalted wood as chopping boards/serving boards
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2013, 10:19:15 PM »
The fungus is what ive been telling people about... and advise not to use it for boards....

Just asked this question as ive had 3 people in the last few weeks asking if they can make chopping boards from spalted wood... its good to hear your thoughts as i have more to tell customers in the future..

Please keep your comments coming :)

Andy Coates

  • Guest
Re: Spalted wood as chopping boards/serving boards
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2013, 11:26:08 PM »
The only prohibition to using spalted beech is that there will be soft areas.

The spores that lead to spalting are in the air we breathe and cause no adverse effects to us. The Hyphae which cause the spalt in the timber is dead if the wood is kiln dried, and if the timber is air dried and the boards have not rotted away they're also dead. The Hyphae need minimum 20% moisture content to live. If on doubt microwave the blanks for 3 mins on low power.

The "spalt" or black streaking you see and recognise as fungus are actually zonal demarcations, stains in effect, between two or more species of fungi, and constitute no potential for harm.

woody

  • Guest
Re: Spalted wood as chopping boards/serving boards
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2013, 12:06:29 AM »
Sorry Andy but my lungs dont believe that  and nor would anyone who see me after turning it without a mask and that was in the days when I had healthy lungs 20 years ago and had to go on a breathing aid because my wind pipes closed right up and that was enough proof for me regardless of what anyone says
As I said Andy sorry to have to disagree with you

Andy Coates

  • Guest
Re: Spalted wood as chopping boards/serving boards
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2013, 10:34:53 AM »
No apology needed, Woody. You must be sensitised to the wood, a not uncommon situation. Many turners, or woodworkers for that matter, can become sensitised to particular woods, sometimes immediately and other times after long trouble free exposure. Roger Foden, for instance, a long time turner of Yew, can now no longer work the wood because of the severe effect it has on him. And there are many others with the same problem. The trick is to notice when a particular wood becomes a problem and to take steps to avoid exposure, which you seem to have done.

However...your personal experience doesn't alter the fact that the fungus itself isn't responsible (unless you are turning freshly felled wood with live Hyphae, which is a slightly different scenario...although why you'd turn it green I don't know).

And as a general rule, using a mask is no bad thing for anybody regardless of sensitisation.

Mark Sanger

  • Guest
Re: Spalted wood as chopping boards/serving boards
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2013, 11:31:32 AM »
On my travels I have seen loads of chopping boards, and salad bowls that include spalting.  A bigger issue for me would be to utilize common woods for use with foodstuffs. 

Offline julcle

  • platinum
  • *****
  • Posts: 500
Re: Spalted wood as chopping boards/serving boards
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2013, 12:01:29 PM »
Hi Mark  --  When you say A bigger issue for me would be to utilize common woods for use with foodstuffs.  Do you mean that some of the more common woods such as Sycamore, Ash and Oak would not be wise choice for food stuff ? as a relative beginner here I am still unclear which are safe and which are not so desirable  --  Julian
Location: S. Wales
Crowvalley Woodturners
Julian

Offline bodrighywood

  • platinum
  • *****
  • Posts: 3631
    • Bodrighy Wood
Re: Spalted wood as chopping boards/serving boards
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2013, 12:58:58 PM »
Sycamore and beech are the traditional woods used, sycamore apparently has natural antibacterial properties. Woods such as hazel, hawthorn, blackthorn are fine. Oak has a high tannin content that can leech into foodstuffs and yew and laburnum have toxins in the tree that can also leech out though again there are those who feel it is fine to use them. Personally I would rather err on the side of caution especially if you are selling your work. I'm not sure which 'common woods' Mark is referring to but woods with an open grain like ash are not suitable for practical reasons and soft woods are also not really the best to use either. If in doubt stick to beech or sycamore would be my advice.

Chopping boards are best made end grain by the way, butchers blocks for example are laminated up so the surface is all end grain.

pete
Turners don't make mistakes, they have design opportunities

Mark Sanger

  • Guest
Re: Spalted wood as chopping boards/serving boards
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2013, 01:25:43 PM »
Hi Mark  --  When you say A bigger issue for me would be to utilize common woods for use with foodstuffs.  Do you mean that some of the more common woods such as Sycamore, Ash and Oak would not be wise choice for food stuff ? as a relative beginner here I am still unclear which are safe and which are not so desirable  --  Julian

Hi Julian

No I am not saying Ash, sycamore or oak would not be suitable as they are.

Pretty much any wood non toxic can be used, a sure fire way to know which is the best woods to use are to look historically at those used for treen. r look at wooden toys in shops to see what has been used. If it is safe for children you can be sure it is fine to us.  Beech, box sycamore as well as others have been historically used, and it is not only the consideration of if the wood is poisonous or not which need to be considered.

IE Oak is probably fine but it contains a lot of tannin so if you use metal utensils other than stainless it could mark/blacken if used as a chopping board. Probably fine as most utensils today are stainless.

Also open grain woods such as oak, ash could trap particles of food  so a close grained wood such a sycamore and beech were traditionally used for cutting boards, spoons etc. Fruit woods such as cherry and apple have also been used extensively as well as ash.  If you want to make a vessel to hold liquid an open grain wood is not the best you would be better with a close grain hardwood.

Oak however is used for storing wine  and sherry so it is probably safe to say it is food safe.

Just stay away from known poisonous woods (Yew as one), we wouldn't make a child's rattle out of Yew as they are likely to chew it or suck on it.  

Personally I would not use heavily spalted wood, as like Andy pointed out it can get soft and this is no use for a utility item but I have read somewhere that spalted Maple has been linked to cancer. But how true this is I can not say.  

The issue is there is so much information and cross information, mostly written by people that have heard it fro 'so-in-so' it is confusing and often no scientific or evidence base studies or facts can be attributed to it.

So it comes back to common sense, research and doing what has gone before, if it isn't broke I wouldn't fix it. For my utility bowls I use beech, sycamore and ash as I know historically they are safe and I apply only a purchased food safe finish. But that is just me, I do what I believe is correct but it does not mean it is the only way.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis30.pdf this may help



Offline bodrighywood

  • platinum
  • *****
  • Posts: 3631
    • Bodrighy Wood
Re: Spalted wood as chopping boards/serving boards
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2013, 01:30:25 PM »
I use oak for medieval style goblets as on research I found it was commonly used in days gone yore and as Mark points out it is used for wine vats today. I also found that the ancient druids apparently used yew for ceremonial goblets and have been asked by pagans to make them but the suggestion was that it was because the drink mixed with any toxin and gave them a high so I declined. Blackthorn, if you can get it big enough is also brilliant as it has a lot of beautiful figuring and is very hard.

Pete
Turners don't make mistakes, they have design opportunities

Mark Sanger

  • Guest
Re: Spalted wood as chopping boards/serving boards
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2013, 01:38:34 PM »
I because the drink mixed with any toxin and gave them a high so I declined.

Pete

ha ha and the kids today think getting tripped out is a new thing.  :)

Offline julcle

  • platinum
  • *****
  • Posts: 500
Re: Spalted wood as chopping boards/serving boards
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2013, 02:29:40 PM »
Mark \Pete  --  Many thanks for that, A lot of useful information that clears up a few question that I did have.
Ash is probably the most abundant wood that is cut in the form of tree clearance around here so I have a reasonable supply of it, Sycamore although plenty of it - doesn't seem to be cut quite as much. I will always pick up a few logs if I can where trees are being felled. Thanks again Guys.   --  Julian
Location: S. Wales
Crowvalley Woodturners
Julian