AWGB Woodturning Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: yogavenger on July 02, 2020, 05:04:28 PM
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Hi,
I have my grandad's old wood lathe – looks like this one. https://sumra.net/p/2040107000/3866394
I have a chuck and plate but they fit the other end of the lathe – not the turning power end. That end just has a sharp spindle.
I have some bowl blanks. My question is how can I mount it? I can't use the chuck the power end?! So how can I turn and – at some point – have access to make the recess inside the bowl?
Thanks for any help you can give,
Matt
(can you point me to any videos, pls? I've looked but I can't see any).
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Hi and welcome. Have you got some photos of the lathe etc? Might help as what ypu are saying seems very odd.
Pete
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LOL, that's perfectly possible, Pete. I am complete new and may be talking utter rubbish! :)
Here are some shots from the Lathe.
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From videos I've seen: I want to <attach> the blank to the spindle, shape the outside, clamp in the chuck and reverse, then do the interior. With this fixed head on the power end, I don't see how to do that. I can't use the chuck except on the other (non powered) end?!
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I think the sticking bit for me, is how to do the interior? Unless I glue it to some waste wood on the spindle? Maybe shape the interior, then reverse, and clean up any damage made to the interior by that spindle when inserted into it.
Not sure. As I said, complete novice!
It looks to me like this lather – a Naerok – is okay if you want to do spindle work with the grain.
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What you have the motor end of the lathe is a 4 prong drive centre
With most lathe's you also have a hollow drive spindle that you use a knock out bar to remove the 4 prong drive , The spindle normally has a thread for the chuck to screw onto , If you look at the end of the motor unit does it have a hole ? and as the photo of the 4 prong drive is very dark , Can you see a thread behind the 4 prong drive ? A lighter photo of the prong drive and the left hand end of the motor unit would be better
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Yeah, that was what I was looking for, but I can't see one – unless it's in the motor casing?
If not (this is an old lathe) is it possible to do something, even with the fixed prong?
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I think this is a 4 prong drive with an internal thread, so in order to get it off you will have to lock the spindle and then use a large spanner to loosen the grip. This will most likely take a bit of force. Once the 4 prong drive is off, you should be able to mount the chuck.
For small bowls on a lathe like this you will probably start out with the screw chuck shown in one photo. Drill a hole the size of the solid part of the screw in the centre of the blank, mount the screw chuck, then mount the blank onto the screw and bring up your tail stock (for safety), then shape the outside including forming a tenon to fit your chuck jaws. Then take the bowl off the screw chuck, mount into jaws and turn the inside. When finished, make yourself a large wooden disc that can be mounted either directly onto the drive spindle (using a suitable faceplate bought from a supplier or by providing either a tenon or a recess that can be held in your chuck jaws) and reverse the bowl. Best to cover this plate with some non-slip matting (from the pound shop), bring up the tail stock and then finish the foot of the bowl.
This is just one method, there are others, but it's most likely the easiest way to get to a finished bowl.
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Ah, okay. That sounds hopeful – and helpful, thx. I shall investigate further…
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LOL, thank you: Spot on advice! Opened the belt compartment and grabbed the belt wheel and the spindle on the outside, then with a bit of force, the bit unscrewed!
Rather excited now I can use the plate and/or chuck! I shall take it easy and figure out how to go forward. Probably need to sharpen my tools first.
Thank you – very excited to have a go now! (safely, of course).
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Thx for all the help. Enjoyed making my first bowl. Very rough – but unsure of which tools to use for which bits and how to use them but I’m learning. Great fun.
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After all that you have made a nice bowl, well done, keep it up
Ron
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Yogavenger, the two most important words in woodturning at the end of your last post, "great fun" !! Long may it continue !!
ATB John
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. . . . unsure of which tools to use for which bits and how to use them but I’m learning. Great fun.
I hope you know not to use a spindle roughing gouge on anything other than it's intended purpose. The usual advice I see on here for a beginner is to join a club and/or get some professional tuition (or both). This will ensure you can identify each of the tools, learn what they are for and how to use them safely.
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Thx for all the help. Enjoyed making my first bowl. Very rough – but unsure of which tools to use for which bits and how to use them but I’m learning. Great fun.
That bowl looks good , you must keep it as a reminder of your 1st ever turning
Re what tool to use a clue is in the name , A bowl Gouge :D
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I don't think I have a bowl gouge. I mainly used the tools in IMG_5836.jpg and a bit with the IMG_5839.jpg (far right tool). Caught about three times, though not too badly. Managed to smooth it away. Took my time. Made a bloody mess everywhere with shavings (big and small ones). The walnut seem quite tough but I think the tools were a little dull. I need to try and sharpen them – maybe on my grindstone wheels? Or oilstone?
Not completely sure which one is a spindle gouge?
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Think I need to get a bowl gouge. Any ideas? For a noob. :) They seem expensive.
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Please seek advice from a local wood turning club, some of the tools pictured are NOT for wood turning and some not to be used for bowl turning. One of the pictured tools looks like a bowl gouge but needs a good sharpening.
Use the wrong tool and it can snap. Don't rush learn what tool does what and then how to sharpen then before going at it in blind ignorance.
A little bit of patience now will make your future turning more enjoyable and most importantly safe.
The AWGB web site will show you a full list of clubs.
Cheers Martin.
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This may help you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsXvrZz-k1g
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a word to the wise....
After making the obligatory fruit bowl at school I took a few years off for chasing girls and soldiering before returning to turning in exactly the same way as yourself. I used any tool for anything, sharp or, much more likely, blunt. I continued in this fashion for some years... and got quite accomplished at wood butchery. Years later I got a little money together and treated myself to my first woody course.
What lesson did I bring away with me????
I had hit the butchery glass ceiling and to progress I would need to unlearn just about everything I had taught myself and start over.
This is quite the most frustrating route to becoming a woody, believe me.
What you need is someone to take you under their wing and steer you in the right direction. Joining a club is the obvious method. Telling this forum where abouts you are on the planet and then crossing you fingers is another.
If you are anywhere near the East Coast PM me
All the best, Noob.
Brian
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Those tools which have China on the shaft are very poor quality steel, they won't hold an edge for long and are likely to snap or bend in use (I have seen several like these bought to me by my students). I would advise you replace those with good quality tools as soon as funds permit. If the budget is limited, there is a buoyant second hand market and often, tools for sale on here too.
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Have to echo Paul. The tools you have photo'd all look like very cheap ones that are potentially dangerous. Depending on what you intend to start making you can manage with very few tools. Spindle work you 'need' a spindle gouge and a parting tool and you can make most things. Face work you could manage small stuff with the spindle gouge but a bowl gouge would be better. That is a very bare minimum if you are strapped for cash and desperate to get going. Alternative if you have a bit more money would be a spindle roughing gouge, scraper, skew, spindle gouge, parting tool and bowl gouge. Personally I would advise getting some instruction ASAP though whether it is one on one or, due to Covid, via email, zoom etc. Wood turning is immensely enjoyable but also potentially dangerous. There are some good videos on you tube but also some seriously dodgy ones as well so be careful who you watch.
Pete
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Okay, many thanks everyone: I shall investigate further. I have been delayed by work and my eldest's impending birthday party but will come back to it, asap.
I did look briefly and bowl gouges on their own are very expensive. I will invest in one, as this seems like it can much of what I want to do, and add to it as I go.
I'm in the Midlands but can't see any clubs near me. I guess I shall try and get in as many YouTube videos as possible, and go from there. My father-in-law is knowledgable – As lockdown eases, I will ask him for help too.
Thanks,
Matt
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These looked reasonable. Most gouges I was looking at were about £100 on their own – This is a whole set. I guess it all depends on the quality but it's rated highly on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000KI8CTS?tag=alphatharum-20
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Hi Matt,
Where in the midlands are you located there are quite a few Clubs around all though because of the current situation they are not meeting at the moment.
Regards John
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Just outside Leicester, on the way to Loughborough.
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Hi Matt,
The nearest AWGB club to Loughborough is Derwent Woodturners which is 22 miles they meet in Swadlingcote
Regards John
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Thanks, John. Yes, Swad is just a little too far. That said, I do work out that way, which cuts the distance down a bit. (But am furloughed atm!). :) Hence having time to use the lathe! (Oh, the irony).
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Hi Matt,
Where in the midlands are you located there are quite a few Clubs around all though because of the current situation they are not meeting at the moment.
Regards John
Hi Matt,
Where in the midlands are you located there are quite a few Clubs around all though because of the current situation they are not meeting at the moment.
Regards John
Hi Matt, this particular set is not really any good for you, believe me. It has 2 spindle roughing gouges (and you only really need one), several scrapers (which really should be your last resort), one spindle gouge and no bowl gouges. And for this price it is very unlikely to be good value for money. If you want a decent starter kit, this would be a much better choice :https://www.axminstertools.com/axminster-craft-woodturning-tool-set-106153. This was my first kit when I started and it has served me well over the years.
Having said that, unfortunately when it comes to tools, the old saying holds: buy cheap and you'll buy twice. Most of my "go-to" tools are now out of the Crown Cryo range, and they are absolutely worth the money. Better to have fewer tools, but good ones, and learn how to use them.
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Hi Matt -- I have this starter set from Axminster, it was bought when I first started but haven't used any of them for a while as my go to tools are mostly Ashley Isles. They are all HSS and served me well until I was able to get the tools that I wanted. I could let them go if the price was right. PM me if they may be of interest. Julian
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A 3/8 or 10mm bowl gouge will cover a lot of jobs large and small, you need a decent way to sharpen repeatable grinds to, less time sharpening and more time turning. It is very difficult to set up a hobby like turning on a very small budget, but most purchases if made wisely will last a lifetime, this is why there are often some bargains to be had in the second hand market.
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Thanks guys. Man, I'm a bit confused now. Might try getting a 3/8" bowl gouge and see how I go. I have a grinder which I can use to sharpen the tools. Although someone suggested using a stone as the grinder takes too much off but that seems a little slow – less time to actually turn anything.
I can't do much at the mo' as my freelance work (furloughed, atm) has gone a bit crazy and it's my eldest's birthday party (ZOOM) which is a Harry Potter theme and I'm sorting all the stuff for that.
Maybe next week.
I will look at the 3/8" BG though. And do I need a roughing gouge, for really uneven or blocky things?
BTW, thank you all for helping. And the chap offering to flog an old set. I will PM you now, just to see want you want for it.
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You only ever use a roughing gouge on spindle work never on face plate work such as bowls, platters etc. Using the grinder can be viscious if it only has harsh stones.You need a white stone at least. Also once the tool has been shaped ideally just touch it up every now and then as yopu work no need to go back to they grinder unless you leave too long a bgap between touching up or need to reshape it.
Pete
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Yogavenger, be very careful. It is accepted generally that a roughing gouge should be called a spindle roughing gouge as it should only be used on spindle work ie stuff turned between centres or aligned with the centre line of the lathe. The construction and shaping of the spindle roughing gouge renders it unsuitable for faceplate work such as bowls or platters which are turned perpendicular to the centre line of the lathe. If a blank of timber for a bowl for instance, is too "uneven or blocky" it is best to work the piece to make it more balanced before switching the lathe on. A decent handsaw can be used to remove unwanted material though more labour intensive than a bandsaw or powered hand tools. The important thing is it makes the subsequent turning safer and potentially more enjoyable ! I turn lots of unbalanced pieces using my "go to" 3/8 bowl turning gouge.
ATB John
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Hi , Send me a PM ( Personal message ) with your name and address and I will post you a 3/8 bowl gouge FOC
;)
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Morning fellas,
Once again, you have shared very valuable information with me – I am indebted. I think I will continue to watch videos and see if I can mimic instances from those videos on my lathe and work. I will go back over the uses for the tools – thank you for the warnings about the roughing gouge, guys.
Wood spinner – that is a very kind offer but I couldn't possibly have it off you for nothing: That's too generous. I will DM you.
As some kind of reciprocation: my area of expertise is graphic design. I am the Creative Director for a media/recruitment/events/agency company. A little off topic but if you ever need advice from that area, please feel free to DM me!
Regards,
Matt
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Matt is from Loughborough,
Will sort one out today for you :)
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Very, very generous – thank you. I've sent a message.
M
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Quote, "I think I will continue to watch videos and see if I can mimic instances from those videos on my lathe and work. "
Videos produced by reputable professional woodturners are a great way to learn. be very wary of online materials though. There is a lot of poor practice being shown and the problem comes in deciding what is good and what is not so good. Classic chicken and egg. The woodturner needs a certain amount of experience to know what is good safe practice and what isn't. in order to gain that experience .......
ATB John
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Hi , Send me a PM ( Personal message ) with your name and address and I will post you a 3/8 bowl gouge FOC
;)
Puts your faith back in your fellow humans seeing this. ;D ;D
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Quote, "I think I will continue to watch videos and see if I can mimic instances from those videos on my lathe and work. "
Videos produced by reputable professional woodturners are a great way to learn. be very wary of online materials though. There is a lot of poor practice being shown and the problem comes in deciding what is good and what is not so good. Classic chicken and egg. The woodturner needs a certain amount of experience to know what is good safe practice and what isn't. in order to gain that experience .......
ATB John
I once watched a video by Jimmy Clewes with him wearing a ring whilst wood turning. Bad practice from an experienced turner.
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Thank you, everyone.
Even I remembered to take my ring off before I turned my first bowl. :)
My grandad never wore one.
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Posted today , I put a fresh 45 degree edge on it for you as well
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Look what arrived! :) (And what's the best way to maintain that edge because it's awesome!). And you can tell it's proper – it has a real weight to the steel. I'm actually worried about my other tools now. I think they must be complete rubbish!
And I will PM you: I owe you cash, sir. I cannot accept this, it's too much. (but appreciated!).
M
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LOL, I daren't use it! I don't want to blunt the edge! :)
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Good incentive to learn to sharpen correctly.
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No pressure :)