AWGB Woodturning Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bill21 on June 06, 2020, 05:31:35 PM
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Anyone got any views on this? Will you go back as soon as they open or continue to isolate a while longer?
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We are considering resuming by holding a deferred AGM in September but are just about to contact our members to ask how many would be prepared to attend. Depending on the result we will make a final decision at our next committee meeting in August (this may be a Zoom committee meeting).
If it does go ahead we are asking members to bring in items they have made during the lock-down for an impromptu instant exhibition. Our venue is quite prepared to host the meeting but we envisage having to implement Social Distancing measures - not easy.
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Biggest problem for many cliubs will no doubt be the fact that many members will be in the endagered category and sensibly being careful for a while yet. Using zoom etc for virtual meetings will need to be the norm for many fpor a while yet I suspect.
Pete
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We (West Northants Woodturners) are keeping an eye on the situation but presently it doesn't look like we'll be back until the autumn. In the meantime, we're keeping in touch with Facebook and WhatsApp, with a few wood swaps etc going on between individual members.
Like other clubs, there are quite a few older members who are at risk and who aren't au fait with the latest online technology so we'll just have to wait it out and keep in touch as best we can.
Duncan
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Pretty much as I thought. Quite a number of my local club are in the at risk group. Meetings are held at the community centre and I’m not aware of any plans to re open it anytime soon.
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The AWGB are working on setting up a Zoom meeting for club officers to assist with / discuss use of online meetings / demos etc.
An email will be going out to all clubs shortly...
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Since Corvid a lot more of "Older Members " have become more aware of Zoom, Microsoft Team , Whats app, Facebook, Instagram etc as it has been an opportunity to keep in touch with family, friends but also time in lockdown was an opportunity to learn . Members who we thought were not computer savvy, have now become learnt how easy it can be . Ask your members would they like to try a zoom session its easy to set up and a 45min is free. The problem my guess at meeting will be social distancing as a village hall that could take 30/40 people will now only be able to take 10/15 .
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Whatever Boris or the committee decides I have my doubts that I will be attending club meetings until, perhaps, next year. As much as I miss going I just don't feel it is worth risking bringing unwanted stowaways home with me.
I've been making stuff for the local hospital staff and helping/guiding/teaching a relative newbie via email through the lockdown...... And I'm 'Reet Chuffed' with his progress, by the way!!!
There are woodyturning challenges out there but perhaps new ways of thinking are required, at least until a vaccine becomes available.
Brian
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We have been existing with newsletters, facebook(limited numbers) and one zoom meeting of committee. Planning more zoom meetings up to September including AGM. Hopefully booking a professional turner for an online demo as well. Like others we are of the opinion that many members including at least half of current committee will not wish to hold a physical meeting because the space we have access to is too small and under 2m ruling, we would get a maximum of 10 members and then no room to move around!!
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We are aiming to start online with email and live demos. The initial plan is to phone all members (split between cttee!) to establish how many are happy with Zoom and/or have access to suitable equipment. Others' experience here would help. Then possibly a (new) gallery page on the club website. We hope to restart actual meetings in September, but this will depend upon how things are going and opening of rooms etc.
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Our venue has said it hopes to be open in July but all this is academic until Boris relaxes the number of people who can gather together. Our hall probably can cope with about 25 members as against the normal 65 if we have to go to 2 metre distancing.
As others have said, we also have to consider if our members are willing to return.
In the meantime, we have been trying to keep things ticking along with the odd newsletter and info on live demos etc.
We have just had an interactive remote demo from Emiliano Achaval in Hawai which went t Cheam, 4 local UK clubs and one in South Africa, direct to members homes. It was well received. Only downside for the demonstrator is that unlike an IRD to a venue, they cannot hear the audience. If demo'd to a venue, we always keep the mic open and this gives some atmosphere to the proceedings. No issues with the tea break chat as you're speaking direct to the demonstrator. The fact he (in this case) was about 5000 miles away, was irrelevant.
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I have been watching a number of Professional demonstrators during lockdown and also now seeing webisites where they are now advertising remote demonstrations for clubs or individuals which is fine, so now, world access is available, my concern is the variance in quality, not of the demonstrator but that of the equipment, to do it properly could be as expensive as a very good lathe . Editing is not an option its live .Have seen issues with broadband width from demonstrator, yes we are moving into a new era and I think its brilliant but it must be done "professionally"
If clubs decide to participate at a club meeting then how is this managed? large smart tv ? has the venue wifi?, can members not present access?, time commitment ?Questions how managed? All these need ironing out and probably other points but this should not stop us moving forward .
I know it has been said some members are bit behind on computers but I know because of Corvid a lot have had to grasp the metal to see grandchildren , friends and family some might need help if so other members can help them .
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Hi Michaelb,
interactive remote demos are not new, we started with them back in 2017, having Lyle Jamieson demo to us at an outside venue. We then had delays as we had to get access to the wifi at our venue, which we did in mid 2019. We then planned 3 remote demos to the venue, we had two there and the last one, Emiliano Achaval, had to be switched to a "direct to home".
In our venue, members watch the demo on a large projector screen and we have a roving mic so they can ask the demonstrator questions and get an instant answer. Members who do not attend can be given a link to the Zoom call.
Video conferencing is not new but it is new to woodturning. We (Cheam) and other clubs see this as a way to supplement our live demo program but obviously in these troubled times, we have had to resort to interactive remote demos to fill our program.
The Lucid Woodturners group has strived to educate, advise and to maintain standards for anyone who is interested in rehinking demonstrations, be they a demonstrator or a club. Do check out the likes of Phil Irons, Cindy Drozda, Mike Mahoney, Trent Bosch, Glenn Lucas, Paul Hannaby and the 40 or so others who offer IRD's and individual tuition.
Some clubs just use Zoom for chats between members, workshop tours etc. Another way to keep in touch with members.
Happy to give you more info if you are in on the AWGB session tonight.
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Hi David
HI David
Hi David
Hi David
Will be watching tonight
Its great what your club has done and I am all for it and yes the top demonstrators have invested and watched some of those you mention. We are now moving quickly because of the situation thrust upon us, I just hope that when some of the other demonstrators do it they learn from those who are doing it well . Glen Lucas in my opinion is well ahead . I have paid my money to the AAW symposium for $20.20 great value so will be able to judge them all .
I want my club to be able to get on and do it once we can get back in to the venue .
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OK, will catch up with you tonight.
My club is always happy to share our experiences with other clubs.
You'll like the AAW virtual as there are some great names in the demo list.
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Hi Folks
Our club meets at a small conference room (we are a relatively small club 35 - 40 members), in fact we recently featured in Revolutions magazine,Derwent Woodturning Club.
Our committee is meeting by zoom and we are contacting our members by email.
The major concern for our committee is members safety, the venue that we meet in is unlikely to welcome visitors before September, the way things are moving at the moment, we will be either ‘back to normal’ whatever that is by then or lockdown because of a second spike of the virus.
We run hands on nights which would be very difficult to manage, as well as demo nights.
So the whole situation is very fluid and unknown, like many clubs some of our members are vulnerable as far as Covid-19 is concerned and have been in isolation and I’m sure will be reluctant to venture into a gathering.
We may well end up writing this year off as far as Woodturning meetings go, our pro demos have been cancelled, but personally I think that is a small price to pay for the health and safety of our members, if members are ‘tech savvy’ there is a great deal of Woodturning available on the internet, so we have not yet considered remote demonstrations, although we may have to, depending on how life takes shape,
and how soon a vaccine is discovered.
I hope this post doesn’t sound too negative, but in reality we have no firm plans to restart ............
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That all sounds very sensible. We have quite a lot of members over 70 at my club so I suspect many if not most have been shielding. How keen they will be to restart meetings is unknown at present as far as I’m aware. The venue itself has an online presence but have not broached the subject of reopening at all yet. I too suspect that this year is probably a washout and perhaps the situation can be revisited in the new year provided there isn’t a second wave of Covid 19.
As said there is a huge amount of information and should I say inspiration online but a few folks I have spoken to seem reluctant to take advantage of it. Social media is one such source but the tin foil hats come out at the mere mention of FaceBook which is a shame.
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I think many club members will not be in a hurry to go back to club meetings.There is of course the unknown element of Corovid-19 and even with the reduction in social distancing many of the venues that I have demonstrated at will struggle to fit all of their members in. But on the other side of the coin do the (generally aged) club members want to go back to sitting in a draughty village hall when in fact they could watch a demonstration from the comfort of their own arm chair at home?
I admit to being a bit sceptical at first but the more I see of remote demonstrations the more I realise that this is now the way forward. No chairs to put out or go away afterwards,no sweeping up and no chilly nights out what more could you want? I do think the face of clubs will change.
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I have been watching a few of the "circuit demonstrators" develop their web presence and remote demonstration abilities. there are a lot of advantages, not only the obvious benefits to the demonstrator of using their own usually larger lathe, plus full tool / stock availability, and a front and centre seat from the audience point of view.
Add the lower cost of demonstrations due to removing the travel cost, and the opening up of a potential global list of available demonstrators and clubs, and I think that things are going to change.
There is still a social contact need that will bring people to gather in draughty halls when possible, but I think you are right to say that permanent change will result, and the longer the physical club is closed the bigger that change will be.
I know Paul and the AWGB generally are supporting people to go onto Zoom style meetings, and that some demonstrators are collaborating to get online presentation and teaching organised. The problem as I see it is getting the non internet savvy club members up to speed perhaps Revolutions needs a new section on internet provision to the workshop, camera placement, mic manners etc. and general internet skills to bring woodturners up to a level where virtual club meetings can continue without losing the "local people" element that the old club system provided.
While it is great that I can take a lesson or watch a demonstration with Jeff over in the USA, I have a two camera rig over my lathe so he can see me turn without standing on my foot and I have a screen so I can see him work too, and I am now a member of a club getting monthly meetings and demonstrations with members all around the world, but I can't pop round to Texas to see how your hollowing system works compared to mine like I could when all members were in or around my town.
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Hi Folks
I think an article in Revolutions to try and bring our members up to speed and more tech savvy sounds like a very good idea, because of but regardless of COVID -19. The magazine has the advantage over the rest of us contacting our members, and giving them the correct way to become more tech savvy, cos I’m no expert.
Regarding clubs reopening and remote demonstrations, I have to say that particularly on our hands on nights, many of our members use this evening as a social event as much as a Woodturning evening, this social contact is something that appears to be just as important to our members as anything else we do, and our committee is more than happy to facilitate this, if that’s what’s important to our members. But obviously at the moment this is not possible, and as I type this, just over the border in Leicester, there is going to be an interruption in return to ‘normal’ because of an apparent spike in the number of victims to the virus which will no doubt effect the decisions of our members.
Stay safe everybody.
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the gist of this thread appears to be based on the assumption that demos are the main....or only... reason to be in a club and that oldns like me WANT to be tech savvy in order to experience one. I personally joined a club in order to see and meet a wider circle of mates with a shared interest in woody matters. I feel no envy whatsoever for folks who feel the need for Zoom in their woodyturning lives.
Am I alone on this side of the coin? I doubt it.
Brian
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To some extent I agree with Brian, clubs are not just about professional demonstrations , but the interaction with other members passing on tips laughing at our mistakes, swapping wood , having our exhibitions etc... .
However the lock down has made Demonstrators look at the way they can share their skills and make a living. Having watched and paid for a number of demonstrations on Zoom by the likes of Glen Lucas, Cindy Doza, Pat Carroll and Phil Irons the quality of the filming is far better than most clubs, the demonstrator is using known equipment and you can get to question as and when.
My opinion is that we should be getting the best of both worlds, we need the local interaction but have demonstrators from all over the world in our clubs is a huge opportunity and proberly raise our standards.
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I agree with Brian and Michael.
Brian our club is all about social interaction, we limit our membership to around 40, partly because of the room that we have but I believe it’s just as important that we get to know each other, I’ve been chairman of our club since it started ( can’t give the job away😂). This has been my mantra and like to think that’s why we have lasted so long despite having to change our club venue 3 times, perhaps members of our club will post otherwise?
I think we can benefit from some aspects of remote demonstrations, but we’ve also built up very good relationships with pro turners because of their visits, so both arguments have value.
Stay safe everyone, make the right decision for yourself and your family, clubs will return, but your health is more important than anything.
Kind regards to you all.
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To some extent I agree with Brian, clubs are not just about professional demonstrations , but the interaction with other members passing on tips laughing at our mistakes, swapping wood , having our exhibitions etc... .
However the lock down has made Demonstrators look at the way they can share their skills and make a living. Having watched and paid for a number of demonstrations on Zoom by the likes of Glen Lucas, Cindy Doza, Pat Carroll and Phil Irons the quality of the filming is far better than most clubs, the demonstrator is using known equipment and you can get to question as and when.
My opinion is that we should be getting the best of both worlds, we need the local interaction but have demonstrators from all over the world in our clubs is a huge opportunity and proberly raise our standards.
I tend to agree with this. Watching a demonstration live, being able to handle and look all angles at what has been demonstrated and ask questions arising from the tactile examination are something that is obviously impossible remotely. The social aspect of chatting to other members is also crucially important and being able to pick up and examine and learn from competition turnings. I also have to say that there are so many excellent videos (as well as the bad) so freely available now that the idea of remote demos does not have the same appeal. Especially as there are always delays where chucks have to be changed or tools lost in the shavings hunted for all of which can be edited out in a good video.
Having said that until a tried and tested vaccine reduces the risk and the rate of infections declines we may have to wait a while before normality returns but in my view it will return and will be worth waiting for.
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There is surely room for both. Remote demos etc open up a whole new area of possibilities that are otherwise not possible. Especially true for small clubs where cost os a problem. Also don't forget that the two are not incompatible and with a bit of experience having remote demos in a club setting (after lockdown) are also another possibility.
Pete
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the gist of this thread appears to be based on the assumption that demos are the main....or only... reason to be in a club and that oldns like me WANT to be tech savvy in order to experience one. I personally joined a club in order to see and meet a wider circle of mates with a shared interest in woody matters. I feel no envy whatsoever for folks who feel the need for Zoom in their woodyturning lives.
Am I alone on this side of the coin? I doubt it.
Brian
While I agree with you 100% the gathering in a draughty hall is what we want to get back to, I would go further and say if we could see an end to this say by September, I would be against taking up a tech alternative.
BUT this may not have an end in any of out lifetimes, those who already have the internet and a smart phone can join in, but it will be very unsatisfactory. Televisions for 5 or more years now have had the ability to display your phone screen on them, instantly making the zoom meeting prospect while not great at least a lot better.
This information and more needs to be shared so that we don't lose members like interesting blanks that get kicked under the workbench, obviously the end goal is to get back to putting out uncomfortable seats in draughty church halls, but to arrive there when / if ever it is possible we need to share knowledge not on mediums such as facebook and websites, those seeing that will not need the information, but in print to tell those not into the internet how to maintain contact and keep those interesting blanks on the shelf where we can see them.
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There is surely room for both. Remote demos etc open up a whole new area of possibilities that are otherwise not possible. Especially true for small clubs where cost os a problem. Also don't forget that the two are not incompatible and with a bit of experience having remote demos in a club setting (after lockdown) are also another possibility.
Pete
Agreed Pete. I see no reason to not have both live and streamed demo’s. Sadly I don’t believe it will happen at my club as there isn’t the interest to do so.
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Lots of interesting comments and thoughts in this thread.
We have had an interactive remote demo (IRD) to our club venue, in fact three of them. The virus situation made us and the demonstrators realise we could beam "direct to home" and this is what we did for our last IRD.
But, with a difference! we had 5 clubs in the UK and 2 guests from South Africa involved on the one demo. Minor glitches to start but in the end 123 people enjoyed 3 hours of woodturning from Hawaii.
The 5 clubs have now started to talk to each other and the South Africans are considering using IRD's themselves.
There are many options: film your in house demos and beam them to members who cannot attend for one.
As for information, do check out www.lucidwoodturners.com which, with over 600 members is the repository for all things relating to IRD's.
Although we started using IRD's in 2017, the UK remained behind the curve until the mid 2019's when we had more demos and other clubs came along to see what it was all about. Covid-19 has speeded up any clubs plans to use IRD's.
There are other video conferencing platforms available other than Zoom.
Just remember video conferencing technology is over 20 years old, been used in education for at least 15 years, so woodturning is late coming to the party.
It's now become part of the mix and our club events managers should consider the balance between live demos and IRD,s within their budget constraints.
You can run House Notices, Raffle, Show Table all within the Zoom meeting. Have the demo and then throw the mic open to members to chat to the demonstrator.
David
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Having read back through this thread, I would agree that a lot of club members only come along to the draughty hall for a chat and socialize. Some of the members we have, don't have lathes, they just enjoy the craic!
This (the social bit) is not an issue with the new situation. Zoom (or whatever facilty you use) enables chat and socialization amongst the participants and is actively encouraged by some of the internet clubs and demonstrators.
Do remember that this is not streaming (Facebook, YouTube or whatever) so you can get instant contact with the group or a demonstrator.
In the Woodturning Zoom club UK, we have a 1/2 to 3/4 hour space allocated for chat within groups. One night I was a bit quiet and the club chairman called me out to comment on something. I could do that instantly by clicking on my "unmute" button.
I guess the main thing is to try all these new opportunities out and see if you like them If not, nothing lost.
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Hi
I'm the IT Manager for the company I work in so know exactly what technology can do for us. During lockdown I was supporting 26 remote workers enabling them to continue working from home. As a family we were (and still are) using Zoom to keep in touch on a pre-scheduled basis and Yes even to cousins down under in Oz who we seldom otherwise see. HOWEVER !!! Would I want Zoom to take over how I see my parents from now on? Definitely not and as far as I'm concerned the same goes for my turning club. Yes there are some benefits to Zoom but on the whole I would reckon that the majority of members attend more for the social interaction than I dare say for the demo's.
I do think there is a compromise to be had though. At our club we have pretty much an equal split of pro demo's, member demo's and hands on evenings along with quarterly competitions and monthly chairman's challenges. I don't have a problem at all with the idea of perhaps one or two Zoom (or other platform) style evenings to bring in demonstrators that would otherwise be too far to travel for. These could either be to the home or if available, projected at the club meeting place. You could also incorporate joint meetings with other clubs?
Just my two pennies worth
Steve
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IRD's and Zoom are essential tools that we are now better acquainted with. Making best use of them together with available content is important. Not only does it add a new income stream for those who demonstrate, it provides the opportunity for turners to see IRD's from someone we are unlikely to see in person. We cannot replace the interaction that occurs at meetings but we can add to our knowledge and enjoyment of woodturning. Something similar has been available for years in education and made a huge difference in teaching terms. Lets hope we continue to learn by using this technology.
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There is something else that has not been mentioned yet. We could go back to the church halls and have a live demo and that live demo could be broadcast to club members that are perhaps to infirm to attend a club night. We have a couple in our club who just cannot make it to the hall for meetings (this was before Covid-19) and to live stream a demo that the other members are taking part in would undoubtedly enhance some of the member's lives.
I have done a few live stream demos now, each one gets better but throws up other possible improvements that could be made and so bit by bit my equipment is improving. I did one last night to my local guinea pigsclub ( sorry chaps) ;D and I finished at about 20:40
but I had packed all of the equipment away by 21:30 and was sat having a coffee shortly after, and that is so much more enjoyable than having to get in my car and drive for 3 hours in the dark, having to make detours because of late night roadworks etc. I think there will be clubs that will never accept this but I seriously feel that this is the way forward.
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I'm sorry to be the cat among the pigeons again but I'm convinced this thread is leading us up the garden path. It is surely obvious that anyone reading this is a computer user and happy to be so. Therefore the majority are likely to see the benefits of digital woodturning and be willing and happy to share their enthusiasm.
Unfortunately they are overlooking... I suspect... the fact that the VAST majority of AWGB members are not on here so are likely not to feel the same way about the subject.
Of course choice is the operative word and the more choice the better BUT as soon as a club appears... to new members especially... to be talking about embracing internet screens and the like how many will vote with their feet and seek a more hands-on way of life, leaving the tech savvy folks in a somewhat emptier church hall.
After all, those disappearing members can stay at home and stare at a screen without the clubs help.
Brian
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IRD’s will not replace the interaction we see at Club meetings. Ours is a Very practical subject with some other stuff thrown in. I for one as a post 16 tutor do not understand how you can do remote teaching for a practical subject. Unfortunately there is no AWGB club in my area and I did not take to my local turning club, so IRD’s are good for me and I have enjoyed seeing turners who I would not see at a club meeting.
You all make very valid observations but it is making best use of technology to enhance our experience/enjoyment/knowledge of woodturning. Now that visiting others at home is easier, it would be nice to help those who are not computer savvy and willing to give it a go.
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Just FTR we phoned round all our members and >2/3 were happy to try a Zoom demo - more of us are online than people realise!. We are thus trying this (as you say the demonstrators are getting more comfortable with it) and will report back. The main concern is questions. Clearly this does not replace meetings, nor does putting pieces on the website, but it is something!
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Willstewart I am set up to do remote live demonstrations, and have done a few now. Asking questions is not really a problem.In my workshop I have a pair of speakers set up sothat I can hear someone hollerin' but I am also going to get a headset that will allow me to hear them more clearly.I have a boom mic close to my mouth and that cuts out any noise from the lathe so participants can hear my replies quite well too. When all this was first muted about 5 years ago I was a bit sceptical about it,but having to do something for my business because of the pandemic meant that I have worked harder to get it right in a shorter time. Each one I do gets better (that is of course just my opinion) but I have to admit that talking to the camera still feels odd but I do think that although it will never(possibly) replace a live demonstration in a church hall it will be adpoted to run alongside. And with the ever present danger of a second peak hanging over us many may come to realise that if they want to interact with other turners this may have to be the way for some time to come.
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Have to say I am struggling with Zoom, it doesn't fit my house layout well. My main computer is in the bar which is a small room that connects the house to the kitchen, if I have Zoom on my wife doesn't like to walk through to make a cup of tea or even come downstairs as she doesn't like to make noise when I am on it, which makes it hard to use in a relaxed manner.
I have a screen in the workshop, but that is just a small 10" screen which is great for browsing a sketch-up drawing, or running through the detail on a YouTube demo pausing it to copy the steps but not so good for sitting and watching, can get it on the main TV but no camera or mic there, can type on a tablet (badly) but that doesn't feel inclusive.
If this goes on it will be worth spending a few £ to have a social contact point with other turners that doesn't imprison my wife, but when and how is the big question...
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I have a screen in the workshop, but that is just a small 10" screen which is great for browsing a sketch-up drawing, or running through the detail on a YouTube demo pausing it to copy the steps but not so good for sitting and watching, can get it on the main TV but no camera or mic there, can type on a tablet (badly) but that doesn't feel inclusive.
If this goes on it will be worth spending a few £ to have a social contact point with other turners that doesn't imprison my wife, but when and how is the big question...
How about getting a bluetooth keyboard for your tablet to improve your typing. A lot of tablets can be plugged into an external screen that has HDMI input so a modern computer monitor or small TV could serve the larger screen purpose. Alternatively a laptop in your workshop would be another solution.
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How about getting a bluetooth keyboard for your tablet to improve your typing. A lot of tablets can be plugged into an external screen that has HDMI input so a modern computer monitor or small TV could serve the larger screen purpose. Alternatively a laptop in your workshop would be another solution.
Now that I am over 60 I find demonstrators under 24" are just too small to see :) so laptop is not an answer, bigger screen is, but it is in the workshop so it will have to be wall mounted and will cost around £100 mark so a commitment of both space and cash I have to decide I want to make. I have considered a mini projector I could project onto a screen takes less space than a monitor and folds up when not in use.
Referring to Brian being the cat amongst the pidgins, he is quite right those of us on the forum are computer users, IF non-physical meetings are the future of woodturning clubs, it needs the enthusiastic to review the options probably waste some money on ideas that don't work out, figure out the protocol of meeting online instead of in the church hall, and put solutions that work into paper media so that the non technical turners in the club can benefit from ready made solution ideas.
We are all engineers in as much as we run machinery and construct things from wood, the mental process of digital engineering is the same, you just need the willing to go out, prototype ideas and create cut lists to follow.
As I have said before deciding on if this is a worthwhile venture does depend on how long we are prevented from going back to any old form of gathering, but while learning that we may possibly gain knowledge that can be merged with the old method that can save demonstrators driving around the country until the early hours of the morning.
Don't know how this Covid-19 will play out, but I do suspect it will change the world we knew in several ways for the medium to long term probably for the remainder of our lives for a lot of the current club members. So doing anything is better than doing nothing and waiting for things to go back where they probably won't go.
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You may find a cheap s/h monitor on FB or Freecycle in your area my son picked up one for my grandson that way for nothing from someone upgrading.
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This may be of interest to some of you. I know some other organisations that use these types of facilities have been busy writing risk assessments in preparation for restarting in September/October time.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-guidance-for-the-safe-use-of-multi-purpose-community-facilities/covid-19-guidance-for-the-safe-use-of-multi-purpose-community-facilities
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Any risk assessment you do for your Club needs to take into account what the facilities management/owner expects too.
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Not really, the facilities management / building owners have to do their own risk assessments for the areas they are responsible for.
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Our local hall has asked all hirers to prepare their own risk assessments. When they have received them they will also prepare their own assessment which will be sent to their insurers.
The local WI risk assessment runs to three pages.
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Update on re-starting:
All started off well, our Membership Secretary sent out invites to all members asking those who wish to attend on the 16th, RSVP so they could be put on a list. First 30 names got through the doors.
That was until last night. Meeting now cancelled so members miss two demonstrations and access to the club shop.
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That is such a shame all that preparation and hard work is wasted I think it is not worth trying until things get more stable
Regards John
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I don't think many if any Clubs will be starting up again this year which is going to make it very difficult to collect the AWGB annual subscriptions from members Zurich Insurance have given clubs a 3 month extension on their policies until April 2021 is there any thoughts of what the AWGB will be doing and what do members think.
Regards John
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We always allow a grace period up to the end of March for renewals. We are going to extend that next year to allow clubs more time. We will be contacting clubs with this and other news shortly...
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What do people think will happen to woodturning clubs, post covid?
Do you think they will just pick up where they left off or will the time away make people rethink about returning?
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I was wondering about that today. I think the perceived safety at the proposed time of recommencement will have a big bearing on the numbers. Especially as mentioned before in another thread, not least due to the average age of club members. My own club was invited to restart when the venue reopened in September but it was still thought too dangerous due to Covid. Of the people I’ve spoken to most if not all don’t expect any major movement back to normality until at least March next year. How many will continue with membership post Covid remains to be seen.
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This Subject was posted on September 20th by Bill21 and there was quite a lot of discussion and postings then so it would be better for continuity of the subject if these were posted in that same thread as there were a lot of ideas and thoughts on this
Regards John
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All club members are by now completely out of the habit of attending club meetings and have also had plenty of lockdown time to consider if/how their membership might fit within their changed lifestyle. Covid, old age and complacency are also likely to have taken a greater toll on the longest serving members, who are also likely to have held the leadership roles which others have previously shied away from.
I would suggest that whenever clubs restart there will be a lot of hastily arranged AGM's consisting of a much reduced membership facing a sparsely populated.... or even empty.... committee table. Some clubs will fold and the rest will face an extended period of rebuilding, which will need to be led by 'younger', less experienced members who would, in pre Covid times, have run a mile from the positions.
Pessimistic it certainly is, but can anyone fault the logic?
Brian
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All club members are by now completely out of the habit of attending club meetings and have also had plenty of lockdown time to consider if/how their membership might fit within their changed lifestyle. Covid, old age and complacency are also likely to have taken a greater toll on the longest serving members, who are also likely to have held the leadership roles which others have previously shied away from.
I would suggest that whenever clubs restart there will be a lot of hastily arranged AGM's consisting of a much reduced membership facing a sparsely populated.... or even empty.... committee table. Some clubs will fold and the rest will face an extended period of rebuilding, which will need to be led by 'younger', less experienced members who would, in pre Covid times, have run a mile from the positions.
Pessimistic it certainly is, but can anyone fault the logic?
Brian
I have to agree with you I am afraid, I think several clubs will fold following this pandemic. I personally am questioning, if I want to go back to club meetings.
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One thing I do know is that many folks go to meetings (or did) for the social aspect and to chat with other like minded people. Quite a few nodded off during the demos but woke up in time for tea and biscuits. This is reason enough for some to return provided they think it’s safe.
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I agree with everything Bill wrote but still question whether enough members will return and whether, from that number, enough will be willing to take the reins and lead the club forward into a brand new future. Past experience tells me the majority will do almost anything rather than sit at the top table. Here's hoping I'm wrong on all counts.
Brian
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We have about a dozen on the committee at my club, myself being the newest member. I’m not aware of anyone wishing to stand down at present. It’s possible of course that situation may change once we restart.
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please can I join, Bill, because your's is the first club Ive come across with so many members willing to do committee duties.
Brian
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Well, what a thoroughly pessimistic outlook! I have been following this thread with interest and as chairman of the Herts and Beds Woodturners I thoroughly disagree with such doom laden prophesies!
Yes we have had to close down while this pandemic runs it's awful course and we like many clubs have taken full advantage of the Zoom video conferencing facility which enables us to have virtual presentations, and most importantly keep in touch and look out for our members. Likewise with our club newsletter which has been a lifeline to our members, as are photographic based competitions.
But at the end of the day a computer screen CAN NEVER EVER BE a substitute for conversing with friends (over tea and an inexhaustible supply of biscuits) at a live club meeting, looking viewing from all angles AND BEING ABLE TO TOUCH the items in the club competitions and learn first hand the intricacies of their creation. Likewise being able to chat face to face with a top level demonstrator and have close up views of his tools (how they are sharpened) and turnings. Then there is the club raffle and club shop where there is always an eclectic assortment of blanks tools and magazines for sale and goodies to win in the raffle. Most of all chatting about common turning conundrums and seeing how other club members have approached and solved them. There is simply no 'virtual' substitute possible for that in my view.
We now have three Covid 19 vaccines ready for distribution and (if this benighted government can get it's act together) we should all have the opportunity of immunisation shortly. I cannot see any reason thereafter why we cannot gradually move back towards normality with resumption of 'normal' club activities. I would be very surprised if when I come back to review this thread in a years time, my club had not resumed normal meetings.
That's my take anyway!
Tim
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I am in the same mind set as Tim. I have heard that some clubs have even got people wanting to join even though they know of the situation. I will certainly welcome the opening of our club once it is allowed. I enjoy the company and banter. I have been watching various turners on the internet especially Ed Oliver but unlike meeting I can't really throw banter at him like I and others do at our club meetings
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I can only repeat that I hope I am proved wrong on all counts because I agree with Tims descriptions of a worthwhile club meeting. Time will tell
Brian
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I am a little more optimistic, as I recently asked members to start paying their AWGB subs, I expected to be well down on numbers as some members think as there is no club, there is no AWGB! I have now got just over half what I collected last year when we were willing to turn out on afrpsty night for club night. i aalso have had more communication with members, phone or email and some great pictures, mainly due to asking for the subs!
Cheer up, many members ask when we will reopen and this takes the form of will we be open for Xmas/Easter /next year?
I wish I could say!
Ron
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Excuse my ignorance, but what is 'afrpsty night'?
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Excuse my ignorance, but what is 'afrpsty night'?
I think it’s supposed to be “Frosty Night”, but we’ll see what the OP says! ;D
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It is the keyboard, it keep moving when I type! :-[
Ron
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Excuse my ignorance, but what is 'afrpsty night'?
That is the night when all timber is free and you get given a new bowl gouge if you take enough of the timber away... but nobody knows when or where it is :)
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Well, what do we think now the vaccine rollout is progressing apace?
Is a restart possible in the autumn if restrictions are lifted or do we wait until the new year?
My Crystal ball isn’t working so any input is welcome ... ;D
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I have sketch plans to ride in Europe in June and August, and to visit France late September, they are there to give me something to look forward to, seriously I am not expecting to leave the UK until 2022. I feel the same approach is needed for club meetings, hope for Autumn but it may be winter and the year number may click round. The important bit is to have some hope of some normality coming.
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Well, at our committee meeting last Tuesday, the Herts and Beds Woodturners took the decision to try and restart "normal" meetings at our Hemel Hempstead venue on the 13th July. A high proportion of our members have already had their first jab and some have had both. The plan is provisional and may need revision if the situation deteriorates again.
Many members are reporting Zoom fatigue and are very much looking forward to a resumption.
It remains to be seen if this is achievable.
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Are you anticipating having to use the 2 metre rule and if so what impact will this have regarding your venue Tim?
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Are you anticipating having to use the 2 metre rule and if so what impact will this have regarding your venue Tim?
Hi Bill, a lot can happen in the next 4 months. We are in close contact with the manager of the community centre where our meetings are held and he is hopeful that restrictions will be minimal. It's a large venue so we could still proceed with a 2 metre rule in place. Will post updates as to viability and restrictions which hopefully will help other clubs in the same situation.
Tim
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I asked if the club I go to had any plans to restart a couple of weeks ago. No response yet other than there will be an announcement.
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I think before clubs can start meeting again the question about insurance needs to be answered first.
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I agree with John (BHT) this public liability no cover ref COVID 19 with the insurance is in my opinion a big issue and this could be a very big problem if someone try's to claim from a Club I have asked for guidance from the AWGB and the answer I received it is up to each Club to do their own "RISK ASSESSMENT" this issue needs very careful consideration it could cost clubs and even Committee members a Fortune.
Regards John
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Covid is expected to be with us for the foreseeable future. If insurance concerns can’t be met does that mean the end of small clubs meeting?
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Covid is expected to be with us for the foreseeable future. If insurance concerns can’t be met does that mean the end of small clubs meeting?
Spanish Flu is still with us in theory! virus doesn't disappear it may change but is always there, difference is our susceptibility to serious illness from it, if this years vaccine doesn't crack it next years will.... we can only hope! I do think some things will be permanently changed, but no social interaction is too high a price to be permanent, just hang in there and keep hope alive.
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I agree with John (BHT) this public liability no cover ref COVID 19 with the insurance is in my opinion a big issue and this could be a very big problem if someone try's to claim from a Club I have asked for guidance from the AWGB and the answer I received it is up to each Club to do their own "RISK ASSESSMENT" this issue needs very careful consideration it could cost clubs and even Committee members a Fortune.
Regards John
I am afraid that in this case a risk assessment may not be the answer. As club officers we need the comfort that we are insured otherwise the risk of being sued for all that we own (and possibly losing) is too great for me to contemplate opening the club again. Club officers need to have that protection.
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Have to agree John,
a risk assessment has nolegal standing, unless you don't have one then it becomes a problem. All it does is shopw that you are being responsible and aware odf any problems and with something like Covid I don't think you can assess risk as there are far too many variables that the clubs would have no influence on including peoples behaviour.
Pete
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Hi Pete & John,
I know the AWGB cannot give advice on Insurance matters but the Risk Assessment was what they said to me
I agree there is always the chance of someone saying they caught Covid at a club meeting and sue the Club and Committee members Who can afford to be in that situation this needs to be looked at by some experts so come on the AWGB please instigate some sort of check on where we stand and see what advice Experts can give us.
Regards John
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The only people who I would have thought could give sensible advice would be whoever the clubs are insured with?
Pete
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With the COVID numbers going down, athough with some way to go, are any of the clubs making plans for the restart? We are in a difficult position as we have to find a new venue. With some committee members without a computer, some can only get Zoom whilst others can only get Microsoft Teams, digital meetings are not possible. So what about demos, and other considerations? We may be able to meet outside in a month or two (Boris permitting) and that may be close to the predicted times for restrictions to be lifted.
All questions and no answers, over a year since he last meeting and I am, along with lots of other people, getting frustated!
Ron
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Hi Pete,
I would agree with you and I understand from our area rep. that is something they may be looking at lets hope there is something happening with that.
Regards John
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It has always been a condition of the insurance policy that risk assessments are carried out from the H&S angle. I disagree that it has no legal standing. The existence of a risk assessment shows that the club officers have assessed any risks they have identified and it records what actions they either have taken or suggest is taken to mitigate the risk. This may provide evidence that the actions that were carried out (or not) were "as far as is reasonably practicable". There are definitions of sorts as to what is "reasonably practicable" and what isn't.
Equate the above scenario to the risks and mitigating actions relating to Covid and in my opinion, you would be on the right track.
It was put to me by an insurance agent that for anyone to bring a successful claim against the policy holder, they would need to prove negligence. Failing to take adequate precautions could undoubtedly be construed as negligent but taking the right course of action in identifying, assessing and minimising risks for any scenario has to be the best defence against any allegation of negligence.
Yes, you are correct that the AWGB are unable to offer advice on the specifics of any insurance policy. However, we are currently working on a list of common questions and answers (from the insurers) which may help but if you want further clarification, the insurers are the people to ask.
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Covid-19 has certainly added unwanted complication to what should normally be fairly simple safety considerations for woodturning clubs. We normally only need to think about things like ensuring members don’t get hit by flying pieces of wood and keeping the fire exits clear.
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In reality, anybody wishing to sue a club for catching covid whilst attending a meeting would have to prove they actually caught it at the meeting.
It doesn't mean we shouldn't look (and document) at the risks a meeting may have, in regards to COVID.
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In reality, anybody wishing to sue a club for catching covid whilst attending a meeting would have to prove they actually caught it at the meeting.
It doesn't mean we shouldn't look (and document) at the risks a meeting may have, in regards to COVID.
As the chairman of a local club,I think the committee would also need to prove that they had taken all reasonable steps to ensure that members would not catch COVID 19. Perhaps some sort of disclaimer in addition to documenting what steps the committee had taken?
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I’ve been in conversation elsewhere about this and one insurer for a venue has suggested that provided reasonable precautions are taken they would address any claims in the unlikely event the claimant could prove that they caught covid at the venue and that the organisers were negligent.
I have in addition seen a disclaimer online like this one that may possibly be of use as well?
https://www.bwfc.co.uk/siteassets/image/galleries/training-22.01.20/liability-waivers-covid-19-venue-website.pdf
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I have today received an email from Zurich Insurance reminding our Club should pay their insurance buy 1st April to ensure cover will continue in a posting by the AWGB Chairman on this thread he said there were questions they were waiting to be answered by Zurich we need some clarity on this as soon as possible.
Regards John
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To be honest most disclaimers are not worth the paper they are written on. It just makes some people have a warm fuzzy feeling, that they have done something.
An example of what I mean is all tickets for motorsport events say MOTOR RACING IS DANGEROUS AND SPECTATORS ATTENDING THIS TRACK DO SO ENTIRELY AT THEIR OWN RISK. legally it means nothing.
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To be honest most disclaimers are not worth the paper they are written on. It just makes some people have a warm fuzzy feeling, that they have done something.
An example of what I mean is all tickets for motorsport events say MOTOR RACING IS DANGEROUS AND SPECTATORS ATTENDING THIS TRACK DO SO ENTIRELY AT THEIR OWN RISK. legally it means nothing.
Good to know. I note you say “most” though, so which in your legal opinion may be of help to us?
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Good to know. I note you say “most” though, so which in your legal opinion may be of help to us?
Only the ones where a judge has ruled on it, all can be challenged. I have no idea how anyone can claim for Covid infection though as we are all personally responsible for masking up washing hands and keeping distance, just a bit more patience needed, I am personally unsure if / when I will return to a club night, as freedom of movement opens up I will be choosy and cautious in how I widen my circle, first in will be grand children fellow woodturners are down the list from there.
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To be honest most disclaimers are not worth the paper they are written on. It just makes some people have a warm fuzzy feeling, that they have done something.
An example of what I mean is all tickets for motorsport events say MOTOR RACING IS DANGEROUS AND SPECTATORS ATTENDING THIS TRACK DO SO ENTIRELY AT THEIR OWN RISK. legally it means nothing.
Good to know. I note you say “most” though, so which in your legal opinion may be of help to us?
I am not a lawyer but have done legal courses for work. Didn't mean the company I worked for didn't put up notices saying "you are present here entirely at your own risk etc" just that we were aware It didn't really mean anything.
As has already been pointed out the only way you would really know is if it went to court. Same with any contract really.
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I have today received an email from Zurich Insurance reminding our Club should pay their insurance buy 1st April to ensure cover will continue in a posting by the AWGB Chairman on this thread he said there were questions they were waiting to be answered by Zurich we need some clarity on this as soon as possible.
Regards John
The questions I referred to are more of a list of frequently asked questions to assist clubs in the future. They don't relate to the specifics of the current renewal but I understand the statement in the policy on cover of transmissible viruses is clear and unambiguous.
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Anyone have any updates on the topic?
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We have paid ours and I have read the policy, it is clear that Zurich will not accept claims re garding COVID beleived to be a reuslt of going to a club meeting.
On the restart we have problems of or own as the venue we used is no longer available and none of the village hall round here will return calls as they are closed!
Ron
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Hi Ron Sorry to hear that I am sure you will find somewhere the problem how near to your old Hall Good luck
Regards John
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We have equipment stored at our venue which needs to be covered by insurance. If it wasn’t for that I would suggest declining to renew the insurance until such time as the club restarts.
If clubs do restart without having the covid issue resolved I wonder how many will want to continue as committee members if it leaves them open to possible compensation claims?
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Bill21's comment about volunteers for the committee does bring back to mind the discussion about creating your club as a Company Limited by Guarantee. Members liability is limited to £1 not unlimited as in the present situation. A few clubs have gone down this route in the past but I would suggest it might not be a bad idea to look at this option again. I certainly will be encouraging my club to do so.
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Thanks for that David, food for thought. ;) Thank you for mentioning it.
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There are several things to take into consideration and also worth bearing in mind is that by becoming a company, it must have directors and the directors then have legal responsibilities and liabilities that didn't apply to an association...
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As Paul says, there are many things to consider if you wish to go down the Company limited by Guarantee route. Choosing the initial members and Directors being one of them.
You would have to prepare accounts and file them at Companies House. This means an annual expense. Against that, the individual members of your club are not exposed to unlimited liability as they are now.
Creating the company is not a major expense, but you would have to have a new constitution. Check out West Midlands Woodturners who have already gone down the Ltd by Guarantee route.
BTW Paul should be able to help any club considering this as on 9th July 2012, the AWGB was registered as a Company limited by Guarantee.The constitution run to 55 pages so it is not a quick read!
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As Paul says, there are many things to consider if you wish to go down the Company limited by Guarantee route. Choosing the initial members and Directors being one of them.
You would have to prepare accounts and file them at Companies House. This means an annual expense. Against that, the individual members of your club are not exposed to unlimited liability as they are now.
Creating the company is not a major expense, but you would have to have a new constitution. Check out West Midlands Woodturners who have already gone down the Ltd by Guarantee route.
BTW Paul should be able to help any club considering this as on 9th July 2012, the AWGB was registered as a Company limited by Guarantee.The constitution run to 55 pages so it is not a quick read!
On correction to the above - the members aren't exposed to any liability, the club committee members are. Perhaps as they are the ones who should be managing the club and its financial affairs, that's the way it should be!
Second correction - I'm no expert on this so better you ask our Treasurer!
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Thanks for pointing that mistake about liability. It does seem the committee members are primarily liable.
There's a useful summary about unincorporated associations here:
https://www.myerssolicitors.co.uk/the-law-of-clubs-they-can-be-tricky/
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Thank you Paul & David this all makes very interesting reading I wonder how many Cubs/Members are aware of this maybe a bulletin could be put in the next issue of Revolutions and the next news email.
Regards John
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I have to confess that Cheam looked at switching to the Ltd status but our committee dithered and the moment got lost in the COVID lockdowns. I guess the idea may be revived by the new committee, when we can have an AGM.
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I’ve just been made aware of this as another possible option?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charitable_incorporated_organisation
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I think you are all overthinking this. Members were never liable for giving each other colds or flu. Shops are not liable if you catch Covid while shopping.
When the opportunity to re-open comes there will be some form of procedure that puts liability onto the individuals not the committee or the Association. otherwise re-opening can't happen.
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Pete, I hope you are right! Until then it seems to make sense to explore avenues to protect our clubs from any liability. Some of the avenues may also be a better status for the clubs in the longer post-Covid term.
The CIO info posted by Bill21 is useful but that status is granted by the Charity Commission and you have to be a charity in the first place to apply it seems.
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When the opportunity to re-open comes there will be some form of procedure that puts liability onto the individuals not the committee or the Association.
It’s a nice thought isn’t it but who’s going to implement this “procedure”?
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The government have that role, it will be in line with opening of other hospitality venues. Pub doors will open under some form of guidance and that will be the process for clubs too.
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The government have that role, it will be in line with opening of other hospitality venues.
Wood Turning Clubs aren’t “Hospitality Venues” as you put it though are they?!
I’m pretty sure many of these Hospitality Venues are companies anyway.
It would be nice to think that clubs not willing to go down the company or charity route as previously mentioned will gain some sort of assurance from government that they can continue as before without fear of litigation. I’ve not heard anything so far though to indicate government have even thought of this.
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We are looking for a new venue, and those that we answer my requests are very concerned about COVID, I think the venues will have some rules of their own!
Ron
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My point is until the dust settles and rules evolve for group gatherings be that in clubs village halls or workshops trying to second guess how it works out is a futile exercise. Once the government start working out the basics of events / hospitality venues some rules will evolve that can be applied to clubs and venues alike.
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I think the insurance question is probably the last thing any club committee needs to worry about. They should be making sure they are complying with the (ever changing) covid restrictions. Failure to do so could result in a fine, regardless of whether anyone got infected...
All being well, there won't be any restrictions after June 21st but that depends on the success of the "road map".
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Any clubs looking to restart soon?
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Any clubs looking to restart soon?
Yes, Herts & Beds possibly on 27th July (Gary Rance demo) and definitely on the 10th August with a demo by Les Thorne
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I think my clubs due to restart in September.
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I think that as long as the club committee carries out a proper risk assessment, in line with the Covid rules as laid down by the government of the day and that all meetings that are f2f are held using "best practice" at all times then there should not be any problems. Everything should be documented and dated just in case it ends up in court but I very much doubt if any will .(end up in court that is)
The venues will have a responsibility to provide premises that conform to the covid regulations but it will be the responsibility of users to interpret them and ensure they are adhered to.
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We were originally planning to resume on the 13th July but decided to postpone until the 27th when, (hopefully) all restrictions will have been eased (on the 19th). Will make a final decision at a Zoom committee meeting on 6th July.
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We were originally planning to resume on the 13th July but decided to postpone until the 27th when, (hopefully) all restrictions will have been eased (on the 19th). Will make a final decision at a Zoom committee meeting on 6th July.
Our July demonstrator is due for an urgent medical operation this month. In view of that and the delay in lifting Covid restrictions (from the 21st June to the 19th July), at last night's committee meeting, we decided to hold next Tuesday's meeting (13th July) as a Zoom meeting.
So our first face to face resumption will now be on the 10th August with a demonstration by Les Thorne.
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Delighted to say Anglesey and Gwynedd Club had our first live meeting since Febuary last year, and we are committed to meeting face to face and continuing with Zoom so members who dont want to attend can stiil take part.. Hopefullly we should have a couple of demonstrators one for an all day and one evening plus hands on and a couple of members demonstrations . We should be moving to our new home which has far more space and one of the best views overlooking to Snowdon Range of Mountains .
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Have AWGB prepared a Covid-19 specific risk assessment template for clubs?
If not are there any others available to download from the internet that may be suitable.
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Have AWGB prepared a Covid-19 specific risk assessment template for clubs?
If not are there any others available to download from the internet that may be suitable.
The problem for most clubs is we use somebody else's premises so have to also include their Risk Assessments in ours.
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So it’s just a duplicate of the venues?
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So it’s just a duplicate of the venues?
Absolutely not! The venue does not assess the details of your event. Their RA is simply a starting point. There are no short cuts to Risk Assessing something as important as this!
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The venues risk assess,ment is going to be at best a general one. If your venue is used for say cub or scout meetings or WI meetings the risks are not going to be the same.
Pete
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Absolutely not! The venue does not assess the details of your event. Their RA is simply a starting point. There are no short cuts to Risk Assessing something as important as this!
The venues risk assess,ment is going to be at best a general one. If your venue is used for say cub or scout meetings or WI meetings the risks are not going to be the same.
Pete
I thought I made it clear I was asking about a covid-19 specific risk assessment:
Have AWGB prepared a Covid-19 specific risk assessment template for clubs?
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The Covid-19 risk assessments carried out by venues will be different to Covid-19 risk assessments that clubs will have to do. May I suggest that clubs look at the way the meetings have been carried out and what could be done to prevent crowding in one area of a hall, forming a queue to collect subs etc.Clubs cannot legislate about mask wearing but can advise members to wear them during meetings. It is also worth looking at how the chairs are placed with what spacings in between. I think it would be unreasonable to ask a demonstrator to mask up when they will be masked up normally for a demonstration anyway. The social distance from demonstrator to audience is about the safe distance from a lathe anyway. I would ensure that tea mugs are washed before and after use at club meetings too. But it should be down to the venue to supply "safe" seating.etc.
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I have been following this thread with interest please correct me if I am wrong with all restrictions being lifted on the 19th July
surely we revert to our previous Club safety rules But clubs still having precautions ie Mask wearing and spacing etc.
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I have been following this thread with interest please correct me if I am wrong with all restrictions being lifted on the 19th July
surely we revert to our previous Club safety rules But clubs still having precautions ie Mask wearing and spacing etc.
“The requirement to wear face coverings in law will be lifted.”
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-response-summer-2021-roadmap/coronavirus-how-to-stay-safe-and-help-prevent-the-spread
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As I see it, when read this says that it is no longer law but a recommendation after the 19th. It is basically saying that the government has released its responsibility and expects us all to act and behave in a sensible way. Face masks are optional, advosed in cdertain circumstances but optional as is social distancing. Whether people will act responsibly we have yet to see. As far as RA for clubs are concerned we can dictate what we feel is necessary and sensible after the 19th for our clubs.
Pete
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I think it is very important that we take the risk assessments seriously. The government are relying on members of the public being sensible but just the actions Sunday evening caused by a football match shows that an awful lot of people are not capable of doing the right thing or behaving in the right way so it is down to organisers to act as shepherds.
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The latest advice from my club is that members take a lateral flow test before attendance. This seems like a reasonable approach.
https://www.gov.uk/order-coronavirus-rapid-lateral-flow-tests
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The latest advice from my club is that members take a lateral flow test before attendance. This seems like a reasonable approach.
https://www.gov.uk/order-coronavirus-rapid-lateral-flow-tests
That's certainly what we have asked our members to consider doing for our Christmas social on Tuesday. Members have also been asked to bring their own refreshments and masks are mandatory except for those when leading or supervising activities.
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We held our Christmas meeting last week, probably one of the best meetings we have ever had. But the hall doors were left open as were the windows. Members were asked to wear masks as were the visitors that we had. We did supply biscuits but again to reduce the risks of people "touching" a biscuit other than the ones they were going to eat themselves,we provided individually wrapped biscuits. The cups that the hall supplied were washed up before the meeting, thereby reducing the risk from previous use.
We "secured" an area of the hall where the microphones were and that was where the speakers could remove masks to speak and then replace them once finished. I have to say all of the precautions we put in place appeared to work very well and club members and the guests/public alike all comformed to what they were asked to do without complaint.
I think the bottom line is if you want your club to start meeting again put the effort in to the risk assessment, don't try and do it on your own get the opinion of other committee members and other club members, this stuff affects us all. Help the venue manager by providing what information you can about your club's requirements as that could influence his/her hall risk assessment which could be to your advantage.
The point about taking a LFT before attending is a good one, but it is only of value if the test has been carried out correctly. (basically if you didn't gag you didn't do it right) So do not rely on that.
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I haven’t yet done a lateral flow test but I was under the impression that if it’s not carried out correctly it indicates a “void” result?
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Due to a huge increase in Covid infections our December meeting is currently “under review”. A wise precaution and no point in having a meeting with only half a dozen members present. It will be interesting to see how many turn up if it does go ahead.
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Herts & Beds had a good Christmas Social last Tuesday but numbers were down from 39 at November's meeting to 21 at this one. However we are gaining new members at each meeting. We're back to a live demo from Gary Rance on the 11th Jan.
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Sdaly tomorrows meeting will no happen, here's hoping for a better new year!
Ron
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We had 20 members turn up for our meeting. 18 confirmed that they took a LF test before attending and one of the two that didn’t left not long after arriving. All wore masks throughout the meeting.
I expect members may be asked to do the same next month.
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I think it will be a very long time before things get back to normal, if they ever do. What we need to do is live life the best way we can and that includes club meetings. Take all of the precautions that are sensible, adhere to the government advice and then testing and wearing masks will just become second nature. In the summer you can have outside meetings which will reduce the risks even further but one of the biggest risks it to our mental health if we let this pandemic get on top of us. No pressure should be applied to anyone, so if they want to wear a mask let them, if members want to meet up again, good on yer! But just be careful. Keep building on your skills at the lathe as the biggest tragedy would be the loss of those skills.
Just my very humble opinion.
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Agree with Johns post. If we hang around waiting for 'normal' we could be waiting a long time. The future is ahead nd we should make the most of the present. Time to try new ideas, experiment, do things we have put off eytc.
Pete