AWGB Woodturning Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Philip Greenwood on May 26, 2012, 01:12:37 PM
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From the low turnout for the change of status of the AWGB and the response i am asking these questions.
What do the members expect or even don't expect from the AWGB for the membership fee, is it just for the Revolutions magazine or to say i am a member of the AWGB.
Also My club is now an Associates Club, but I cant remember this being announced at any club meeting, if this is not publicised at my club, are other clubs the same and members of the club unaware that their club belongs to the AWGB.
From my view the AWGB is to promote turning in this country and world wide. Also to offer help on this forum to members that may have a problem which they need help from other members, news from here and the main website and the magazine, and the social aspect as well. I see the work of members on show at major events which is nice to see.
All comments are welcome and me be this could be publish in the magazine as well.
Regards
Philip
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Hello Phillip, I wont comment on the poor turnout at the ballot I think that is done and Dusted.
If a Club is associated to the AWGB and Members of that club do not know they are in the AWGB they must have their heads buried in the shavings after all the have to pay their annual fee.Regards John
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Oh dear Philip, you may wish you had not asked that question!
Lets see, 466 members voted at about 15% of the AWGB membership, so the membership is circa 3000.
AWGB Forum strength at the time of me writing this = 284 members so circa 10%, and I know that not all are AWGB members, some are not even resident in the UK but welcome all the same.
So what do our members want from the AWGB, I think mostly nothing, they have to be members of the AWGB as part of the requirement of joining their clubs! Harsh, yes, but probably true I'm afraid.
I'm a member of one of the largest clubs in the country, close to 100 members at last count and I'm one of only 2 of us in the forum.
I was on the committee until my personal situation changed and I had to resign. But as a committee member I tried to get people to help with shows, offer to do Hands On demo's on those club nights, attend weekend demo events (at an additional cost - so that was a non-starter), even just make small prizes for our popular game of chance at our big annual show (but everybody wanted to get a free entry ticket!). What did I get, a pathetic lackadaisical 'not me' or 'why me' response. If there is nothing it it for them, they are not interested.
I don't classify everybody like this, or there would be no committee members and even no clubs. But most people are happy to be sheep, lead or guided as long as they don't have to make a decision or offer anything of themselves.
So I'll sorry to paint such a sorry picture, I hope I'm wrong, but my experience says otherwise!
Someone argue against me - please.
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Hi Philip,
It would be quite possible for a member of an associated club not to be an individual AWGB member.
The AWGB send 5 copies of the Revolutions magazine to each associated club so I would hope that (if by no other means) by seeing those, the club members would be aware of the connection to the AWGB.
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Hi Philip & all, My local Club are an Affiliated Branch and I would after I'd made 3 visits to the Club, if I'd not already been a member of the AWGB, the Club joining fee would have had to include AWGB membership, so I had to be a member. As a fully paid up member on receiving the Revolution, I, as everyone else had the Ballot paper, less by error most were missing from the issue .. it happens. For the record I'd voted yes on both count.
I've seen also at the Club's I've been in most can at time's only be interested solely as to what the Club is doing and/or giving them .. turn up, at a seat, see the show have their tea and leave at the end and chairs don't move themselves or anything else which has been setup. The Club has dropped taking members pieces who which to sale them at Events, it's now a case to bring them along and they can then go on the sale table, too many must of just been too happy for the few who do, to carry out the whole work for them. And few ever enter competitions.
What do we expect .... I consider the AWGB would expect more of US to take an interest, dr4 has rightly commented, as has been done in the past, how few use the forum, then I've found on speaking with other Turners, as to if they use the forum or had seen such a thing on there, it's been they don't, whats the point no one's on there or I asked a question, have posted and no one replied, I've also asked do they even have a computer, most have but the forum just doesn't interest them.
The AWGB could not be expected to do any more than what they do, we are given an excellent up to date Website, Forum and Magazine besides Training Courses, Youth/Scot workshops, funding and insurance etc, and above all a large amount of their FREE TIME .... We could at least be more supportive after all it is done, as at Club level for US ... in the end it is down to US ALL in the interest of Woodturning if it is to survive as we know it and for the future to put the effort into it, come on now.
Too the few who may read this .. Thank you.
Best regards. David
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Thank you for the replays, I am sure they will be more to come.
I am going to raise the question at my club why we don't have more information that we belong to the AWGB. I know we have insurance from the AWGB and i will be disappointed in my club if this is the only reason it became a Associates club and not to promote the AWGB.
Paul I have not seen any copies of the Revolutions magazine at my club.
I always promote the AWGB to anyone who asks, or tell them about the AWGB and hope that a few may join.
Regards
Philip
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Hello Philip, that's stirred the pot!
your club will definitely be getting Revs this time around. You should have had it last time as well. As for forum numbers we are a very active group. If you compare us to the gmc forum you will see they have loads of members but very few regular contributors. So I think we are doing OK.
I am an individual member of the AWGB which I joined because I wanted to be part of things. I am now on the EC and like my colleagues there if you asked me why I do it I probably couldn't give you an answer.
The AWGB is now well places to make further strides forward. Recent years have seen the members development programme improve considerably thanks to peter Bradwick and he is continuing with that work.
Charitable status will, I hope, through gift aid increase the funds we have available to offer more services to our members. I'd be intersted to see what people want.
Don't forget we also arrange the seminar which is open to anyone not just AWGB members so please spread the word in your clubs - it will soon be upon us, planning has already started.
One thing that does strike me is we don't have a bottomless pit of money. Membership costs less than the price of 2 packets of cigs, two gallons of diesel or 4 or 5 pints of ale. I think that is execellent value when you consider the benefits we provide already.
Cheers Dave
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I tender my apologies. In my efforts to construct a missive to answer the question posed, I neglected to identify the benefits we gain as being members of the AWGB. David, thank you for listing them.
But even these for the most part our members take for granted. I can’t say how many actually read Revolutions – I do, cover to cover. Or how many realise the insurance cover is provided on club nights for the demos etc. What about clubs who aren’t members – my local club, not the club I’m a member of are not affiliated, do they have insurance? Has the AWGB approached them to join?
The Biennial seminar at Loughborough must also take an awful lot of somebodies time to organise and make happen as smoothly as it does.
As for training, Brian could tell us how many application he gets for each event he organises but again I’ll warrant he’s not inundated with applications. I managed to get on one last year when a last minute call went out due to not enough people having originally applied– I was not on the forum at that time. I keep my eye open for them now.
In defence of the main body of members, I’ll state now that they are thankful (maybe even appreciative) of both the Club and AWGB Committee’s but that is almost defiantly because it means someone else is doing the hard work and they can ‘sit back’ and enjoy the show!
It is not helped in part by our hobby being a mostly lone enjoyment. People interested in competitive hobbies (Archery, and even fishing to some extent) or group endeavours (Model trains or field sports) all can do so much alone but it is not until they come together that everything gels. But I was a turner for 8 years before I found and joined a club and there are an awful lot of people out there just like I was.
There is one possible answer. Australia introduced a Men’s Shed Association, open daily or at weekends (not the one day a month we get), it has been found to help older men interact more with their peers, get them out of their homes and participate in something, either doing, learning or showing how. It has been shown that this has the effect of helping people maintain their mental faculties and even extend life expectancies.
Ireland has also taken on this mantle and the movement is growing there I understand. However the UK is doing no more than debating it to see if it’s a good idea!
Now I’m not saying the AWGB should start up an equivalent movement on its own, not everybody wants to turn wood, although some clubs do have workshops open once or twice a week which is (sort of) the equivalent. But maybe as part of the ‘Charity’ status thing we could start to interact with Age UK (the UK driving force behind the UK interest) and see what we can do to help move things along in the right direction.
Just my thoughts...
Dr4g0nfly (Bryan)
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Dave, thank you for expressing all is well, tickety-boo and running like a well oiled watch, it's down to members now as Philip asked, What do we expect, so answers please ... ;D .
dr4g0nfly aka Bryan, your the 3rd that I know who spells it with a 'y' of all the brian's I've known.
Your right with what you've said, besides the joy the show, we're all lone turners at some level of turning, some may not even know as to a Club be on their doorstep or not interested at all, but we can all benefit within a Club and the Club too and with all Clubs working together it can form a wheel and if then they are all affiliated, the AWGB would be the hub, as it is holding it all together as it does, is this an ideal world.
It's one thing to organise one night a month, but daily or weekends, it's done also in the States, but who and where could such be run here, interesting idea though, how is the Mill at Portshead run now a days and a Cornish Club did something like wise. ??? ... I'd heard the Club had tried hands on days/weekends, in the end no one was interested and it never happened.
On a personal note (not that) have you settled and got all sorted following the move.
Philip, it's a case of waiting for an answer .. now what was the question ..
Cheers David
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Ahhhhhhhh >:(
I so wanted to put in my own two-pennyworth but its all now been said so what say I do a little personal soul-searching for your collective delight?
I intended to vote but family probs took it right out of my mind so count me as one of the vast silent majority.
What do I want from the AWGB?
Nothing really, I just like what it is about and am more than happy to pay up and take nothing .......except that I am a regular at the seminars and wouldn't miss one for the world.................not quite true I had to cut Loughboroughboughoughborough short a few years back to attend my eldest Grandaughter's christening!
Do I use the forum?
Yes, I read it quite often and help where I feel I can.
Do I NEED the input of other turners?
A more difficult question, this one, but I think not. I'm not a competition animal and have reached a level where I can usually answer my own queries, given time. Also, stuck out here on the East Coast, I don't have a clubful of equally experienced turners around me anyway. This must surely mean that I put more into the club that I take out......besides we are so near the sea that at least half of our club members are cod, skate and herring which, as we all know, only turn after they have been cooked one side ;D
Hope that drivvle is of interest to someone.
Best
Brian (with an eye, by the way ;D)
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Hi
I work on the maxim that the more you put in the more you get out.
The ideal number for a committee is ONE. I did that for a time in another organisation.
The local branch had pulled out of the County and disintegrated. I got it re-formed and it's still going strong 40 odd years on. I even got elected County Chairman and did my 2 year stint.
Did I get my reward? You bet I did. I'm an HONORARY BRANCH LIFE member. Hurrah !! Now they've chaged the meeting night to clash with my WT club. SO THE BEES STUNG ME IN THE END, and I thought I was immune to stings.
And what did the national body do? Because I no longer keep bees I've been ditched, and have to pay the non members fee to attend the annual convention.
NIL DESPERANDUM CARBORUNDUM.
Tony Malin
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On a personal note (not that) have you settled and got all sorted following the move.
Yes David, all moved (3 weeks ago) and slowly settling into the new home.
I'm also the proud(!) owner of a new 1200D Lathe from Axminster - I'll post a review soon.
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Cheers Bryan, moves are never easy, glad your all settled and have the new arrival, will watch for the coming posts.
David
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Hi Everyone
What i want from the AWGB is what you do now.
For the good valued price of of my membership I get the Revolutions newsletter to my door (reading every page) the use of the forum and the wealth of information and comments from the members who do post. I look at the forum most days for new tips and comments, sometimes looking back at older posts for information that i may need.
I know that it may feel that you are not appreciated very much at times, but I personally think you do excellent work.
As for myself I do not have much to say as I am a disabled man who was looking for a hobby to fill my time so I am new to woodturning and the AWGB. (yes I did vote) I joined after going to the Scottish National wood show last year and started to turn early this year. (lots of shavings)
I live in Kintyre in Argyll and the nearest club i can find is about 150miles away. (bit of a journey for meeting nights)
Keep up the good work.
Ernie
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how is the Mill at Portshead run now a days
Sorry, I almost missed this question (well I did until I reread the thread).
For those that do not know Avon & Bristol Woodturners (ABWT) had a workshop in Portishead 'The Mill'. It’s use was donated by a previous chairman. It was open Saturdays but struggled to survive, attendance was not all it could be.
However, seeing the future, a charitable trust was set-up to look after it once Max had passed on (now sadly happened). To that end the Max Cary Woodtuning Trust took over the Mill and it opens Tuesdays and Wednesdays between 9am and 4pm and as I understand it, is heavily used both days to the point that there is normally a waiting list for people to attend.
It is used to teach people to turn and we find said people at the shows and other events we attend as a club, they don’t have to join the ABWT but are encouraged to do so.
There are 3 training programmes;
The Apprentice Programme - an formal introduction to turning, the machinery, the tools, and structured programme of items to make.
The Journeyman Scheme – designed to take turners forward from everyday turning into new directions.
The Artisan Programme – a step on again employing advanced techniques and processes.
It is also used as a centre for weekend training events and day long or all weekend demonstrations.
Links:
ABWT - http://www.avon-and-bristol-woodturners.org.uk/ (http://www.avon-and-bristol-woodturners.org.uk/)
MCWT - http://www.maxcareywoodturningtrust.org.uk/index.html (http://www.maxcareywoodturningtrust.org.uk/index.html)
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Hi Philip
This is a brave question to be asking, so I'm very glad to see that you have done so.
What is a national association for? I would say representing the best interests of the craft and the membership on a national level. This would include things like negotiating discounts, lobbying politicians, liaising with similar groups (Worshipful Company, RPT, SOT etc), raising awareness among the public, attracting more people into the craft, providing training, providing access to the craft for those who have personal obstacles to be overcome (be it financial or physical).
By and large, I'd say you were already doing all of that, but maybe not with as much impact as you could. Please do not take this as an attack, but much of what we see from AWGB appears amateurish. This is only natural - you are unpaid volunteers, not professional administrators, and have come to office from your love of woodturning. Revolutions has improved massively in recent years, with colour images and much better proof-reading, but it is still a bit parochial. I do hope you have access to the AAW newsletters; I've seen a couple, and they are much better all round. Is the difference purely because of scale (and hence money)? I note that they charge $53 or over £30 for membership in the US. Perhaps you are pricing yourselves too cheaply, and then are not able to provide as good a service? You could try asking for a doubling of the fee - now that would be a ballot with a big turnout! ;D
I don't know if I'm right, but I would expect an organisation with 3000+ members to have more clout with suppliers: it should be possible to obtain discounts from all the big players like Sorby, Craft Supplies, Axminster. At the moment, I can't even check what discounts are available, because the link on the AWGB web site does nothing.
One thing I just spotted on the AAW site that would be of great benefit to branches is the negotiation of a national credit cards payment facility. We know we are losing out at our sales by not taking cards, and we now have to run the risk of taking cheques with no guarantee card backing. We researched the possibility of having our own card machine, but it just wasn't financially viable for us. Centrally negotiated, this could be a lot cheaper and would I'm sure be very popular.
Because of the distances involved, it is not easy to provide any services to members that need face-to-face contact. I have seen the AGM notices each year in Revolutions, noted that the location is very sensibly central in the country, but also that it is a good long drive each way for me, as it will be for most, and decided not to attend. No doubt thousands of other members have thought the same. Have you thought about using technology to bridge this gap - a conference call we could dial into to listen, perhaps? The forum is one way of letting us communicate, as I am doing now, so I'm pleased to see this innovation being used.
Don't get me wrong - your efforts are appreciated, at least by me. I know how much hard work is needed to run just a branch, so it must be even more demanding at the national level. However, you are clearly not getting through to everyone. Recently, several members have spoken to our club committee about our affiliated status, so we did a thorough review. Our conclusion was that leaving AWGB completely was the worst option for all; becoming an associated club would benefit those who don't want to continue as AWGB members to the tune of around £7 a year, but this was counter-balanced by those who would want to continue, who would have to pay around £9 a year more for the same benefits as now. In the interests of fairness for all members, we decided to retain our affiliated status, which I'm sure will be good news to you. However, the very fact that this was in question should cause some disquiet.
Hopefully, you see this as a balanced and fair answer to your question.
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Richard makes some valid points in his reply and I think we would all agree with the areas he feels that the AWGB should operate in. I'd add more international collaboration to that list.
We'd all like to see the AWGB maintain a higher profile but one problem it has to resolve is the fact that it only represents a small percentage, possibly around 25%, of all woodturners in the UK.
This raises many issues as to why there are so many turners out there who are not members and for what reasons.Perhaps freedom of choice is one of those reasons?
The AAW has around 14000 members in the USA and many overseas countries including the UK.
I'd love a centralised credit card facility as it does cost a lot if you go it alone. However, most sales are paid by card these days so it is a worthwhile investment.
David
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Hello Richard,In my opinion you seem to be following the same trend as you did in the previous thread (Ballot Results) You compare the AWGB with the AAW I don't think you are comparing like for like it has been stated many times about the apathy of Club Members in the Uk this is not just Woodturning Clubs.I think you have posted on a couple of threads on this Forum both of these you seem to be knocking the AWGB Committee even though you say this is not an attack on them.I am not as eloquent as you in putting my my point forward,please get off your high horse, and I look forward to seeing you taking more participation on the Forum like showing us some of your work etc.Regards John >:(
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One thing I just spotted on the AAW site that would be of great benefit to branches is the negotiation of a national credit cards payment facility. We know we are losing out at our sales by not taking cards, and we now have to run the risk of taking cheques with no guarantee card backing. We researched the possibility of having our own card machine, but it just wasn't financially viable for us. Centrally negotiated, this could be a lot cheaper and would I'm sure be very popular.
One point here is that under most agreement with card companies is you are not aloud to take payments on behalf of other people. The payment by the customer must by made direct to the person who has the agreement with the card company.
Philip
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Hello Richard,In my opinion you seem to be following the same trend as you did in the previous thread (Ballot Results) You compare the AWGB with the AAW I don't think you are comparing like for like it has been stated many times about the apathy of Club Members in the Uk this is not just Woodturning Clubs.I think you have posted on a couple of threads on this Forum both of these you seem to be knocking the AWGB Committee even though you say this is not an attack on them.I am not as eloquent as you in putting my my point forward,please get off your high horse, and I look forward to seeing you taking more participation on the Forum like showing us some of your work etc.Regards John >:(
Yes it is easy to knock things but if you dont think things are perfect you can always get more involved and change them.
Well put John.
Regards George
What a pair of responses!
No high horse involved - I was answering a direct question from a member of the AWGB EC. I clearly made the point that the AWGB is already doing most of the items on my list, and then went on to suggest some things that could be done that aren't. I call that "getting involved".
Yes, I did compare to the AAW - I find your implication that Americans are so significantly different from British to be frankly quite insulting.
Have you even considered that your overly defensive attitude and obvious cliquiness could be what is putting people off?
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One thing I just spotted on the AAW site that would be of great benefit to branches is the negotiation of a national credit cards payment facility. We know we are losing out at our sales by not taking cards, and we now have to run the risk of taking cheques with no guarantee card backing. We researched the possibility of having our own card machine, but it just wasn't financially viable for us. Centrally negotiated, this could be a lot cheaper and would I'm sure be very popular.
One point here is that under most agreement with card companies is you are not aloud to take payments on behalf of other people. The payment by the customer must by made direct to the person who has the agreement with the card company.
Philip
I don't know the details of the AAW scheme, but they seem to have got round this. I have had a very favourable response on this from several people I have spoken to. It would be good if you could make a commitment that the AWGB committee would at least investigate the idea.
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Hi Richard
Like you i am only a member of the AWGB i am not a committee member, so i can't make any commitment that this will be looked at.
From my view I do have a card agreement with a company and i would have my agreement cancelled and my face criminal chargers if i processed a card for someone else.
Regards
Philip
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Could we please keep this pleasant folks! If I, or any other EC member hasn’t yet taken offense then I guess none was intended.
A credit card scheme would be a great idea, but sadly, i feel, unworkable. The market traders’ association run a similar scheme, but their rates are not much better, in fact in line, with those companies who offer the service as a standalone facility. The truth is they are all out to make money and do so very well.
Rates seem to be about £28/mnth standard charge and variable % per transaction.
It mystifies me why banks don’t make the facility more financially viable for individual/group traders as it would surely result in more deposits. I suppose the fact of the matter is that whilst they can make a killing they will do so.
Having said that I am quite prepared to suggest that the committee look into the possibility of a group scheme.
As Philip G points out, this would still require individuals to register, be approved, and operate on an individual basis. Remote payment rules do not allow for one machine and multiple users due to money laundering regulations.
I think what you are asking is this:
Could the Association broker a reduced rate deal through a clearing house to offer the provision of a remote CC facility on behalf of its members?
Personally I doubt it. Of our 3000+ members we would not know how many would apply and I’m certain the companies would need some idea before any negotiation could begin.
On the AAW matters...
The AAW have 14000(ish) members, each pays more than our £16 per annum. About £34 average. That’s subscription income of about £450,000 per annum. Significantly more than we have to play with. They have full-time paid staff in a number of areas, for instance their magazine has a full-time paid Editor and two staff and a budget (at last checking) of $1.5m.
The perception that they do everything better is not supported by comments from US demonstrators when they attend the AWGB seminar. Bigger is not always a mark of better.
I don’t know where the figure of only 25% of UK turners being represented comes from – although I’d be interested to see supporting data.
Just a few thoughts of my own.
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The perception that they [AAW] do everything better is not supported by comments from US demonstrators when they attend the AWGB seminar. Bigger is not always a mark of better.
I am not a member of AAW, but I have seen their web site and a couple of their journals about three years ago. I have no idea whether they do everything better or not, and certainly didn't say so. I was impressed by their journals, and was impressed again by the degree of chapter (= branch) engagement shown on their web site. Examples on there right now are: on-line archives of the journals in a members-only area, a Best Newsletters and Web Sites feature for the chapters, a monthly membership drawing (= free raffle with donated prizes), and the credit card facility.
One thought that could be worth exploring: I have noticed that Woodturning magazine is becoming increasingly international; if articles by British turners are of interest in the US, then there could be mileage in talking to AAW about sharing and exchanging articles between Revolutions and American Woodturner. This would give them access to our articles, and us access to theirs, improving the range and possibly the quality of copy for both magazines.
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Hello Richard,There was not any implication intended that the Americans were different from the British but clearly they are but this was not meant to be insulting to you or anyone else.
I do not consider putting my point of view forward being overly defensive and as for cliquey I certainly am not if you find my direct answers to your postings offensive then I am sorry.I will still look forward to some of your future postings.Regards John
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Some interesting thoughts have been expressed and I can contain myself no longer! ;D ;D
Firstly I'd like to have a look at the 25% quoted by David above. Last year saw the demise of the Northern Federation because from all their 40+ clubs no-one was prepared to come forward and stand for the committee and the secretary and treasurer (both friends of mine) wanted to step down after many years of service. 38 of these clubs decided to associated with the AWGB and we currently have 58 associated clubs and 58 Affiliated branches.
Our total membership stands at 2971 or which 477 are individual members like myself, who are not part of an Affiliated Branch.
If we assume that club membership roughly equates with branch membership then the AWGB represents approximately 5000 + people plus some individuals (who may be part of a club).
Where are the other 15,000 turners if we only represent 25%. Personally, I suspect we represent the majority of turners eiterh as individuals, in branches or in clubs, but I can't substantiate that either.
Secondly, we have been trying to get one of the 3,000 or so members to step up to the plate to take on the treasurer role for almost 12 months without a nomination. Fortunately Paul Hannaby offered to help and he took my role and I took on the job of treasurer, and willingly so. we are also fortunate to haev Russell Gibbs from my neck ofteh woods wanting to get involved as the Northern rep.
We don't have much money to spare and finding time to do everything required to run a national association (irrespective of how many people it represents) takes time and effort and I for one am self employed and work full time (when the work is there, and worry about it when it isn't!).
I'd be pleased to look at a central card facility, or at least ask the question Richard, but I'm pretty busy at the moment getting to grips with the new role and making arrangements for the financial aspects required for the Limited Company and charity application. If you really believe it is a good idea please investigate the arrangements, get some costs, put together a process stating how it would operate and submit a report to myself and I will bring it to the EC for consideration. That would be a real help.
Same goes for any other ideas, please investigate, put together a short paper about how they would operate and submit to the EC for consideration. our biggest problem is lack of time and therefore we have to prioritize our efforts (and have a life as well).
This business of "what do i get for my money" makes me cross I'm afraid. I have been to Woodfest today where I spent a couple of hours in lovely sunshine with my wife having a look around. It cost me £30 to get in (£15 each), similar to our subs. The benefits fo AWGB membership are significant but if the membership stops paying then the organisation will cease to be. And then there would be no Revolutions, no forum, no seminar, no "free/subsidised insurance", no free courses, no demonstrator training, no free instructor training courses, no wood turning certificate and no EC.
To paraphrase JFK
"Ask not what your AWGB can do for you…ask what you can do for your AWGB"
best regards to all Dave
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Hello Dave,What a great posting in this thread you have said many things that I and many others may be are thinking what a good idea if someone has an idea to do some of the ground work which then takes some of the pressure off the EC.I think sometimes members forget a lot of our EC work full time and need to make a living.I am glad you have summarised some of the benefits the EC have introduced.The work that is not only carried out by the EC but all of the helpers for example take the Seminar which I have had the pleasure of attending the last three, it is a great 3 day event but that is the tip of the iceberg it is the 2 years of hard work prior to the event as that starts almost as the current one ends and the dam hard work setting up for the one about to start.Remember look after your EC or one day we may go the same way as the Northern Federation, I am Quite sure when they were trying to form a Committee the told members if they didn't a Secretary & Treasurer it would fold, the heads went deeper into the sand and said this wont happen well it did. I do hope if my rant has upset anyone I am sorry.It was said from the Heart.Regards John
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Sorry to be posting so much on this thread but I have just read the thread by Bill Mooney (Another Disabled Turner) This for me epitomises what the AWGB is all about Fantastic. Regards John ;D ;D
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In response to Dave's reply:
If your number are correct, then it's good to see that you have managed to get a lot of members from the demise of the NFWG.
The original calculation mentioned in my posting was done with a fellow member of the AWGB EC and we concluded that:
AWGB has 3K members. There were about 3-4K members in the NFWG of which probably 1-2K were also in the AWGB. The balance of 6K was a conservative estimate of turners who are not in clubs or AWGB.This was the best estimate then then Chairman of the AWGB and myself could come up with-but as you rightly say, unsubstantiated.
Recent events make me think that the balancing figure is understated!! We come across more and more turners outside the fold (so to speak) and in my Club's area alone, we can probably identify about 60 such turners (almost the same as our membership).
It's the old question: how long is a piece of string? The key issue is that there are a significant number of turners out there who, for whatever reason, wish to remain independent.What can we do to want them to come into the AWGB??
The issue of a CC machine is a pertinent one. I'm a member of the AAW but as yet haven't investigated the cc facility. I have my own via Elavon Services - who are reckoned to be the best priced service (according to my bank -Lloyds- we can't all be perfect!). If the AAW one works in the UK, then I will switch. I can then lose charges of £25 per month plus transaction fees.
The AWGB investigated a card facility with their bankers Lloyds TSB some years ago but for the Association, not the members, as far as I recall. I did the investigation but can't lay my hands on the paper that was prepared.
Dave, I'm happy to investigate if my card people and Elavon would offer a similar service to the AAW but this will have to wait for a couple of weeks as am on hols from tomorrow (San Jose- the AAW symposium).
Is the AAW symposium better than the AAW? I've been to both and would say that as the AWGB format is modelled on the AAW one, there's not much to choose. Probably around 1000 people attend the AAW and the Trade Show is about as big as Ally Pally was and a bit more. The AWGB get around 180-200 attendees and a reasonable Trade area.
The AWGB give a good range of demonstrators and hopefully have now changed the format of the Trade area to encourage more traders to invest time/money in attending.
Both organisations provide demos with new ideas and techniques so I guess you pays your money and takes your choice.
I'm happy to post some notes and pictures from San Jose when I get back.
David
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Just remembered:
There's also an app put out by Adelante which provides a cc facility. Cost is low (£50) but you need an iphone or something similar. I think you still need a merchants account but if anyone uses this facility, please feel free to correct me!
David
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Hi all,
I've been on holiday so missed this thread to begin with. On the question of committee membership I think there are 2 distinct types , those that do and those that don't and this probably applies to any type of club. Those that do are not necessarily the best people to have all the time, from experience some should never be allowed to sit on committee but you can end up stuck with them due to no one else coming forward. I am lucky in my club that we have a good comte that has sat from the start. For those that don't there may be many reasons why not, of course apathy could be one but imagine if you sat in meetings all day for living, the last thing you would want to do in your leisure time is attend more meetings. I had never chaired a meeting before forming the club and found the idea of it quite daunting and I do wonder if there is a need for some sort of committee training just to give advice about these things.
As far as membership goes ,again from experience, it doesn't matter how much publicity you get there will always be some one who turns up and says "I never knew you existed" and there will be those that do not read magazines so we will never succeed in reaching every turner in the country.
So this brings me on to the title subject. In common with a lot of turners I am an ex-serviceman, as a turner I still wanted the comrade ship and cameraderie of days(years) gone by. I didn't get if from the AWGB but I certainly got it and still get it from their members, ex service or not. I wanted to improve my woodturning skills but could not afford lessons but due to the ever giving nature of turners I was allowed to pick up bits of help and advice, similar to what happens here on the forum, free of charge. I am now a professional turner but judging by the questions asked of me when demonstrating at clubs or shows other turners are in the same boat , now because I was given the help when I needed it most I feel compelled to help others out now, as an adult educator I needed to teach and the AWGB has given me the platform on which to do it ie. youth training. So I echo whoever said "ask not what the AWGB can do for you "etc. but actually when you are in a position to put something back I have to say it makes you feel good.
Not sure if I've lost the plot here or not but I'll post it anyway. :-[
Regards
John BHT
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Now back from the USA and picking up on the CC facility.
My card man has gone awol for a few days.
The banks only look at an account that will generate more than £10K pa for a cc facility - so say my bank (Lloyds)
Elavon Services offer the best deal or so say Lloyds TSB
I;ll call First Data Systems tonight to find out more about the AAW scheme.
David
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David it might be worth having a word with 123 send http://www.123send.net/ I get my system through them very good deals.
john
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Thanks John. Had a quick look at their website and remember them from when I was investigating my facility. They do offer group deals and also a virtual facility similar to the one offered by the AAW's people.
David
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Can someone explain to me what having a Credit Card facility will benefit both the AWGB and the Members?Regards John
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You could investigate using PayPall. That way you do not have to set up a merchant account.
A big benefit for me when I buy through PayPall is that wherever I buy from, I get charged in stirling so do not get charged by my bank.
Being able to to join the AWGB by completing a form and paying on line would benefit thouse who do not like completing paper forms, paying by cheque or paying an ever increasing amount to use a postal service they have lost trust in. Paying by credit, charge or debit card is becoming so commonplace that it is the preferred method for many people. We may have no choice in the future when the banks get their way and scrap cheque books.
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I use PayPal a lot. I have an account with them for my business but you don't need an account to use PayPal, use can use you normal credit card. This would be a better way then a credit card account in my mind.
The down side is the the commission but this is only 3% or 4% would have to check, but you have to pay chargers to pay in cheques if you have a business account so this cancel out.
This may be a good system to pay for the membership and any other payments to the AWGB I would use this to pay.
Philip
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To answer John's question above:
1. Benefits to members are that the majority of sales made at fairs and other events are by card. You can lose sales if you do not offer this facility.
2. Benefits to the AWGB are that a lot of members prefer to pay by card (see comments above as well)
Paypal is a good option but you need to have a computer link to do the deal - OK for those with an iPhone and a weblink, not for others.
David
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Hi David,Thanks for that explanation. Regards John
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If I read the tone of this conversation correctly it began with a notion that the AWGB could in some way broker a deal whereby we could offer a chip & pin service for members. If this is the case then (personally) I can't see it happening. For one thing I doubt we could offer a sufficient number of potential new customers for the provider, for another, there are any number of companies offering the same facility already. There is little in the range of costs, a % point here and there, a set up fee or not.
Santander (check because I don't know if recent events have changd this) offer a small business account with a c&p facility tagged on.
The Market Traders Federation also offer a service through a provider, although you will require a merchant account, some of which require a £5000 initial deposit to open the account.
There is another company...see attached pic...that says you can have a c&p service with a personal account for about £1 per day. Doesn't seem like much but if you don't make any deposits for a few weeks that's dead money.
In regard to how members pay their subscriptions...watch this space...the work is already in hand...
Hope this helps
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I've just sent an email to Dave Atkinson with all the info gathered so far, including how the AAW deal works.
Thanks for all the other suggestions, these have been included in the note.
David
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Hi
I've received David's email and will consider the information he has provided, and I have replied already to him on this issue..
The AWGB already has a CC facility through Cardnet from LloydsTSB which we use primarily for the seminar and i am considering whether we can extend its use for central AWGB activities. I am also investigating the use of PaylPal for the AWGB centrally.
Whether we could negotiate a deal for branches and clubs or even individuals to obtain access to a CC facility I don't know. Any such facility will still entail the branch/club/individual renting a machine at around £20 - £40 per month including VAT. Personally I doubt that there will be a demand for any such facility.
I also doubt whether such a facility could be established given the sales volumes that could be anticipated. Most suppliers expect thousands in terms of turnover annually.
I will look at the information that David sent me and review our current processes. However, unless someone can convince me that there is a wide demand for each Branch/Club to have a CC facility I doubt that we will pursue this idea any further. Time is pressing on other matters to do with company registration and this idea is not top of my priority list at the moment. If you can convince me otherwise then the priorities may change.
Thanks for all your input so far.
Cheers Dave
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I havent read all the comments on this thread but
as i see it should it not be what should woodturning expect from us there are so many crafts going extinct why should we let wood turni9ng be one of them
?
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Hi
I've received David's email and will consider the information he has provided, and I have replied already to him on this issue..
The AWGB already has a CC facility through Cardnet from LloydsTSB which we use primarily for the seminar and i am considering whether we can extend its use for central AWGB activities. I am also investigating the use of PaylPal for the AWGB centrally.
Whether we could negotiate a deal for branches and clubs or even individuals to obtain access to a CC facility I don't know. Any such facility will still entail the branch/club/individual renting a machine at around £20 - £40 per month including VAT. Personally I doubt that there will be a demand for any such facility.
I also doubt whether such a facility could be established given the sales volumes that could be anticipated. Most suppliers expect thousands in terms of turnover annually.
I will look at the information that David sent me and review our current processes. However, unless someone can convince me that there is a wide demand for each Branch/Club to have a CC facility I doubt that we will pursue this idea any further. Time is pressing on other matters to do with company registration and this idea is not top of my priority list at the moment. If you can convince me otherwise then the priorities may change.
Thanks for all your input so far.
Cheers Dave
if you need any help with the paypal let me know we have used it from day one due to the simple facts its safe and you can use pay pal or a bank card
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Interesting thread
I am a new individual member of AWGB as well as the club (SAW) l belong to being an associate member. SAW is a large club with membership fluctuating around 160-180 members per annum. What it wants for its membership is publicity, and potential new SAW members, what it brings is a large membership base. How we make keep these members updated on AWGB items will be difficult, we find it hard enough to get them to read our own newsletter, or it just seems that way as you mention an item in club notices, have an article in the newsletter, post it on the club facebook page, and you still get phone calls asking what is happening, or comments about l didn't know about that. But if information gets to us in time we will get it into our system.
As an individual member discussions about card readers are great, as are areas that will help me develop ideas within the craft or that expand boundaries. I will also be moving to a different part of the country in the forthcoming future so networking with people and clubs in the new area will be a great benifit.
I don't think there in nothing knew in what l am saying as AWGB is already covering the items l mentioned.
What l will say is that all Associations and clubs in all areas of the British Community/charities are struggling to find active people to get involved especially as the bigger Charities and Associations come more business orientated and target the volunteering community. So l would suggest that its best to keep it small keep it manageable and remember that it always seems a struggle to get people involved.
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Re Ian's reply no 47:
I'd be interested to know more about how you use the Paypal system. A lot of our overseas licensees use it to pay us for music rights and in that case, it's a straight transfer from one email account to another. Not sure how it would work in a Craft Fair environment???
Ian, can you enlighten us please?
Original query was about being able to offer a card facility to potential purchasers at Fairs, Shows and other events.
David
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If you've got a broadband dongle, or your smart phone can provide a portable wifi hotspot, or even if you can access a BTFon site via a laptop/ipad, smart phone Etc., you can have customers pay via paypal from a craft event. The problem is convincing the uninitiated that your phone/ipad/laptop will not store the data.
For the "part-time" seller it's worth noting that there's a ceiling at which paypal notify HMRC of your "takings".
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Re Ian's reply no 47:
I'd be interested to know more about how you use the Paypal system. A lot of our overseas licensees use it to pay us for music rights and in that case, it's a straight transfer from one email account to another. Not sure how it would work in a Craft Fair environment???
Ian, can you enlighten us please?
Original query was about being able to offer a card facility to potential purchasers at Fairs, Shows and other events.
David
As Andy said you can use a phone or laptop to use pay using pay pal or for £20 pounds a month you can have what is known as a virtual terminal were the customer could enter their own details on to pay pal witch is a n encrypted site people have come to trust PayPal if you look on any PayPal transaction (try it with my site) the web address bar will have a green padlock in front of the address showing that all the data is encrypted
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The PayPal website is very informative.
Ian I have sent you an email about your offer of help.
Cheers Dave
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Hi David have replied thanks ian
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Ian,
Thanks -all helpful. It does seem Paypal might be useful in certain circumstances- I can see a use for the AWGB for example.
If you're on site at a Fair, the only problem of course is getting a connection to the net plus the public's perception that the system is not secure. You may have all the PCI certificates going but if they don't trust the system or you, you don't get a sale.
Again the virtual terminal is a good idea-the AAW scheme offers this and also do 123send. (I do wish they would call me back)
The main advantages chip/pin machines seem to have over the other systems is that with GPRS, there is no problem about a signal anywhere and the public are used to using them. This makes the minimal outlay worth while -for me anyway.
David
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A new service is being trialed where you use your smart phone and an add on supplied by them. There is no sign up or monthly fees you just pay a bit more per transaction.
Details here https://mobile.worldpay.com/
john
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Thanks John, that looks interesting. Charges are high at 65p (I pay 25p) and you have the capital cost of a smartphone & contract. Still, worth looking at.
David
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Hi David, I agree the charges are a lot more than I pay as well but if you already have one of the smartphones they use, which a lot of people do, then there is very little cost involved.
It would depend on how many transactions you do per year as to how economic it would be. I havent done the sums properlly yet but if I had a smartphone already and only do a few shows a year it could work out a lot cheaper.
john
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Follow-up on the credit card facility discussion:
I've now received a proposal from 123Send which has gone to Dave Atkinson to consider.
Rates compare favourably with Paypal for machine hire and are better on processing costs. Only problem is the merchant account (needed for Paypal as well) but fees may be waived for this, depending on the level of take-up if the AWGB agree to the deal.
The AAW deal with First Data is still the best so far but you do need to have a US bank account-a stumbling block as far as we are concerned.
We all have different needs for c c facilities so each unto their own!
David