AWGB Woodturning Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Newbster on December 08, 2019, 03:35:26 PM
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Hi everyone,
I'm new to forum and really looking forward to starting back into woodturning as I come close to retirement.
My problem is this, I bought a Viking 750 lathe 2nd hand and for the life of me I can not find the make anywhere to know where to get spare parts.
The headstock is locked on solid as I want to put on a chuck instead of what you can see in the photo but it won't move or unscrew at all. Tried heating it, giving it a belt of a hammer but nothing will budge it.
At this stage any suggestions would be greatly welcomed as it looks like I'm going to need to replace the whole spindle and disassemble the pully system.
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To remove the drive centre move the toolrest close to the tommy bar that you have in the spindle to that locks the spindle
Then use as big a pair of stitlsons as you can find and turn the drive centre adapter anti-clockwise as you look at it
A bit of warmth may help too
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many thanks for the reply.
Did exactly as you suggested Ian and got nowhere. I also ended up knocking the hole on the drive centre out of shape as you can see in the photo. There was a lot of rust on this from sitting up but I think at this stage the two have become one but I don't know where I would get another spindle for this machine as I can't even identify the make anywhere?
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If you can take the spindle out you could then put it in a substantial vice and repeat the stihlson attack
If all fails I can make you a spindle with whatever thread you want on the end
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thanks again Ian, I'll certainly try that and the fact that you can fabricate the piece if we strip the thread is a lot of comfort.
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Is it a left or right hand thread ? ???
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I am not familiar with this lathe but I would look to see if there is a spindle lock. Although there appears to be a join to the right of the tommy bar that may not be the case, that whole drive assembly could be a threaded sleeve so to may be trying to unscrew something that is solid bar.
The other thing is where the hole in the drive has been elongated you could go in with a drill and drill the hole a tad deeper, that will have the effect of letting the tommy bar seat in properly. Give what we see as the joint a good spray over a few days of plus gas. Finally rather than risk damage to the machine, if all else fails remove the shaft from the machine before heating or beating. Held in a vice closer to where you are working will help prevent the shaft from warping.
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You're absolutely right about the solid bar theory, I did think I might be trying to move the unmovable but there's a hole at the join (albeit well scored by now) which leads me to believe that she is meant to come off. I can't see any spindle lock either but instead of drilling that hole deeper and running the risk of hitting thread below would it be better to score the outside of the casing so as to get a pair of stilson jaws on it?
I know that might cause an imbalance by doing so but it's pretty much ready for the bin either way.
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Ironically the design of the 2 prong drive is supposed to be a thread protector!
Although it does look as though the back portion is the spindle lock, and separate from the 2 prong drive, I would be inclined to take of covers to treble check there is no other spindle lock.
I would then dremmel out some of the damage to the tommy bar hole, enough for a drill bit to bite cleanly and drill a bigger diameter to match the ends of the damage BUT being sure whatever drill you use you have a perfectly fitting bar for the new enlarged hole, probably no need to go deeper than the original just true it up. All the planning and execution time should be filled with a liberal daily dose of your choice of corrosion buster, I also would recommend Plus Gas, but whatever you have is the one to use.
Most importantly go for longer bar for extra leverage and stop hitting it! I have a suspicion that unlike most modern (under 100 years old) lathes this one may not have a Morse Taper, and you may find you need this tool.
Hard to say from the photo, but I suspect this lathe spindle in an oddity and doesn't have a Morse Tapper
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Angle grinder, grind two flats to accept large spanner?
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Another suggestion - when you use stilsons or mole grips to unscrew, attach them near the end of the drive so you avoid compressing threads you are trying to undo. when attached and ready to go, give the handle a good clout in the anti-clockwise direction to break the joint.
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I am going to suggest something that may seem very strange to some people. Take two hammers hold the head of one under the part and then give the top a sharp tap from the opposite side rotate the shaft 1/4 of a turn, do this a number of times around the circumference tapping every time you turn it. This may help to shock anything like rust and free up the thread.
I use to do this when I was a plant mechanic.
By using two hammers there is less likely to damage the part. I say a sharp tap no need to belt the living daylights out of it.
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Another suggestion - when you use stilsons or mole grips to unscrew, attach them near the end of the drive so you avoid compressing threads you are trying to undo. when attached and ready to go, give the handle a good clout in the anti-clockwise direction to break the joint.
Paul would I be right in saying that the consensus is that this should be expected to come off? I'd feel like a right dingbat if the whole unit turned out to be a solid piece of metal. It's a mighty lathe as she is and I'd be concerned about knocking her out of true if I come at it too hard. Which I've already done as you can see from one of the holes.
Simon above thanks for that suggestion. I scored two parallel grooves either side to give the Stilson some purchase and she's still slipping like Bambi and won't even budge with a strap wrench. But it's looking like a new mandrel job at this stage which I was hoping to avoid.
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Is it a left or right hand thread ? ???
That's a divil of a question. I don't know is the honest answer but I'm working on leveraging anti-clockwise on this based on all of the replies and if it ends up that I'm only tightening it well I'll just have to live with the carnage.
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I am going to suggest something that may seem very strange to some people. Take two hammers hold the head of one under the part and then give the top a sharp tap from the opposite side rotate the shaft 1/4 of a turn, do this a number of times around the circumference tapping every time you turn it. This may help to shock anything like rust and free up the thread.
I use to do this when I was a plant mechanic.
By using two hammers there is less likely to damage the part. I say a sharp tap no need to belt the living daylights out of it.
Notstrange to me, make the hammer you are using as the anvil, bigger thn the one you are hitting with. And keep going!
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I am going to suggest something that may seem very strange to some people. Take two hammers hold the head of one under the part and then give the top a sharp tap from the opposite side rotate the shaft 1/4 of a turn, do this a number of times around the circumference tapping every time you turn it. This may help to shock anything like rust and free up the thread.
I use to do this when I was a plant mechanic.
By using two hammers there is less likely to damage the part. I say a sharp tap no need to belt the living daylights out of it.
Notstrange to me, make the hammer you are using as the anvil, bigger thn the one you are hitting with. And keep going!
Thanks gents for the input I'm going to try that right now. Should I support the base hammer while doing the orbit so as to prevent any flexing or will hand-holding and obviously bracing against the the lathe bed or rest do the job?
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I am going to suggest something that may seem very strange to some people. Take two hammers hold the head of one under the part and then give the top a sharp tap from the opposite side rotate the shaft 1/4 of a turn, do this a number of times around the circumference tapping every time you turn it. This may help to shock anything like rust and free up the thread.
I use to do this when I was a plant mechanic.
By using two hammers there is less likely to damage the part. I say a sharp tap no need to belt the living daylights out of it.
Notstrange to me, make the hammer you are using as the anvil, bigger thn the one you are hitting with. And keep going!
Thanks gents for the input I'm going to try that right now. Should I support the base hammer while doing the orbit so as to prevent any flexing or will hand-holding and obviously bracing against the the lathe bed or rest do the job?
Just hold the lower hammer firmly against the underside of the piece that we believe should come unscrewed. It will bounce off when you give the top of it a sharp tap
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Is it a left or right hand thread ? ???
It would be a standard right-hand thread otherwise if it was left hand then any screwed on fitting will undo.
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SHE'S OFF!!!!
For those of you who took the time to help an old man out I cannot thank you enough. The bugger is off FINALLY and it was combination of almost everything all of you had suggsted. Heat, 2 hammers, reboring the tommy hole (which incidentally had no thread underneath as you can see from the photo) and then 20st of down on top of the Stilson when it suddenly creaked like a broken door.
Again thank you so so much everyone. You've made my Christmas because I honestly didn't have the money to be spending but a new chuck is on its way. ;D
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Good to know, now be sure to turn something that needs a chuck and not a spindle drive ;) clean up the thread, do not lubricate with anything wet or dust will stick to it, and get in the habit of unscrewing whatever you have been using at the end of the day. It's all to easy to think "Oh I will leave that on for tomorrow" then get distracted and come back in a months time to find it stuck.
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Good to know, now be sure to turn something that needs a chuck and not a spindle drive ;) clean up the thread, do not lubricate with anything wet or dust will stick to it, and get in the habit of unscrewing whatever you have been using at the end of the day. It's all to easy to think "Oh I will leave that on for tomorrow" then get distracted and come back in a months time to find it stuck.
Many thanks for the tip. I was going to go at it with a bit of bread soda and vinegar but would a bit of wax or axle grease be any harm?
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I use a good quality marine was on everything.
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Good to know, now be sure to turn something that needs a chuck and not a spindle drive ;) clean up the thread, do not lubricate with anything wet or dust will stick to it, and get in the habit of unscrewing whatever you have been using at the end of the day. It's all to easy to think "Oh I will leave that on for tomorrow" then get distracted and come back in a months time to find it stuck.
Many thanks for the tip. I was going to go at it with a bit of bread soda and vinegar but would a bit of wax or axle grease be any harm?
Machine wax, or PTFE basically dry lubricants are best, axle grease will collect dust and cause problems. But remove anything screwed on every night and leave the thread dry and clean and you shouldn't have any further problems.
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Out of interest what thread is it?
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Out of interest what thread is it?
Right hand thread and Ian thank you again for all your help
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Well i meant what size it was !!
What chuck have you ordered?
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Just looking at your picture of the removed drive are you sure that the tommy bar hole hasn’t got a grub screw down the hole as it looks like something has described a thread on the register?
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Well i meant what size it was !!
What chuck have you ordered?
Nova with a 19.1mm thread is what I ordered which seems to be about right based on the photos attached.
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Looks like a 24mm x 3mm pitch from those pics
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Or if its imperial may be 1” 8tpi
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Looks like a 24mm x 3mm pitch from those pics
Ian you're absolutely right and that's the 2nd time in a row you've saved my bacon. I sent off the pics to a store and they came back with 19.1 but it is indeed 24mm and I've now put the order on hold.
Either way I need an adapter because according to the store this Lathe is pre 1986 and made before the 16 standardisation.
Based on the new measurement does this sound right to you Ian? 1x8 Female to 3/4x16 Male LA1834
https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Lathe-Spindle-Adapter-6-Sizes-Fit-Most-Chucks-3-4x10-1x8-1-1-4x8-1-1-2x8-New/291286790724?hash=item43d20bb244:m:m95pIgAImZLMWWVuxadCglg
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Dont buy that adaptor just yet!
I strongly suspect you have an imperial thread on that lathe. And it is quite small, so you should be able to buy an insert for most chuck choices. This has the advantage of keeping the chuck close to the support bearing and reduces vibrations.
Take a look here http://www.intertoolsonline.co.uk/nova/wood-turning/chucks-lathe-accessories/nova-chuck-inserts (http://www.intertoolsonline.co.uk/nova/wood-turning/chucks-lathe-accessories/nova-chuck-inserts)
Bit of measuring and thread counting should get you the right choice. And if you talk to them they will probably allow you to exchange if you order the wrong one.
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Dont buy that adaptor just yet!
I strongly suspect you have an imperial thread on that lathe. And it is quite small, so you should be able to buy an insert for most chuck choices. This has the advantage of keeping the chuck close to the support bearing and reduces vibrations.
Take a look here http://www.intertoolsonline.co.uk/nova/wood-turning/chucks-lathe-accessories/nova-chuck-inserts (http://www.intertoolsonline.co.uk/nova/wood-turning/chucks-lathe-accessories/nova-chuck-inserts)
Bit of measuring and thread counting should get you the right choice. And if you talk to them they will probably allow you to exchange if you order the wrong one.
many thanks mate. I actually found an old 1"x 8 tpi chuck on ebay that I hope does the job but talk about headaches. I'm beginning to think somebody upstairs doesn't want me to have a hobby :D
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I think some more pictures of the Lathe may help, The viking name hasn't inspired recognition, but quite a few lathes are painted different colours and have brand labels stuck on them but are fundamentally the same machine. Someone on here may recognise the overall lathe under a different brand and the manual may exist online.
Hope the ebay chuck fits, but if not take the 2 prong drive you just removed to an engineering shop and they will tell you exactly what the thread is, and while you are there get them to skim it and remove all the damage done in removing it :D
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Ian has made a good point, looking at the thread it appears that there is a machined groove to take a grub screw or somesuch. It would be woth further investigation to prevent future damage.
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The Lathe looks the same as the Clarke Lathe which is the same as other branded lathes from various suppliers.
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I think some more pictures of the Lathe may help, The viking name hasn't inspired recognition, but quite a few lathes are painted different colours and have brand labels stuck on them but are fundamentally the same machine. Someone on here may recognise the overall lathe under a different brand and the manual may exist online.
Hope the ebay chuck fits, but if not take the 2 prong drive you just removed to an engineering shop and they will tell you exactly what the thread is, and while you are there get them to skim it and remove all the damage done in removing it :D
Yes, I will do as you say and get that skimmed because the chances of finding another seem to be fairly remote at this stage.
Some shots which might solve the mystery of who made this.
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The Lathe looks the same as the Clarke Lathe which is the same as other branded lathes from various suppliers.
Do the photos above ring any bells Richard?
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The Lathe looks the same as the Clarke Lathe which is the same as other branded lathes from various suppliers.
I've done a little bit of digging. This lathe appears to be swedish made by Dal vast Industrigruppen which is now a government owned company by the name of Samhall. That's about as far as I've got but there isn't another machine like it online and it's not for the want of looking.
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You really need to be able to measure accurately the spindle
If you can borrow a digital calliper and measure across the peaks of the threads that will give you the thread diameter ..looking at your pic of the thread its likely to be one of the following
Common sizes are 24mm or 25mm or in imperial 1” 7/8” 1 1/8”
Then across as many peaks as you can measure the pitch
So if you measure 5 pitches in 15mm its 3 mm pitch....or if its 5 pitches in 12.7mm it could be 10 tpi
Then you need to measure the register diameter (the plain section after the threads)
As the lathe is made in Sweden it could be a metric form but it may be imperial
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You really need to be able to measure accurately the spindle
If you can borrow a digital calliper and measure across the peaks of the threads that will give you the thread diameter ..looking at your pic of the thread its likely to be one of the following
Common sizes are 24mm or 25mm or in imperial 1” 7/8” 1 1/8”
Then across as many peaks as you can measure the pitch
So if you measure 5 pitches in 15mm its 3 mm pitch....or if its 5 pitches in 12.7mm it could be 10 tpi
Then you need to measure the register diameter (the plain section after the threads)
As the lathe is made in Sweden it could be a metric form but it may be imperial
Thanks Ian, it's a parallel thread @24mm and 8tpi as you accurately pointed out earlier and I had it measured exactly to confirm. The chuck that I got should fit just fine but if doesn't it's not costing a whole lot as it's a bit of a dinosaur but I'm itching to get a few bowls going as i have a clatter of wood sitting in bags ready to be immortalised ::)
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it will not be a mixture of metric and imperial
i've never seen such a thing
24mm x 3mm
or 1" and 8tpi
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it will not be a mixture of metric and imperial
i've never seen such a thing
24mm x 3mm
or 1" and 8tpi
No correction the chuck size is 1" x 8 tpi
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Hi looking at the pic,s I think the road you need to go down is (Luna) 24x3tpi the drive gives it away
Hope this helps