AWGB Woodturning Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sandy on June 14, 2019, 09:29:22 PM
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Your help please
I've a Beall buffing system which I bought several years ago at Harrogate but haven't used it that much really and certainly not for some time, mainly because it always flings strands of fibre from the wheels around the workshop - even though I've dressed the wheels as directed by Beall.
Anyway, I decided to get the kit out again yesterday and used it on around 15 items, a mixture of medium sized bowls and small boxes. Once again, I got a good, pleasing finish on my items but I also got a workshop full of white fluff and fibre threads.
I'm wondering if I've 'over-dressed' the wheels as when I checked them at the end of use, the white diamond and wax wheels look to be the culprits.
Does anyone else have this problem or had and resolved it? I've attached pics of the three wheels below.
Thanks
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Make sure you wear a dust mask you dont want to inhale that dust
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I don't use the Beal system but have a set of loose mops and stitched wheels.
But I do recognise the problem you describe, whenever I start a new one, there are lots of loose fibres that come off.
Think of the cloth as a piece of wood, it has Warp & Weft (like grain), it is then cut into a circle so there is short grain in 4 positions (2 Warp and 2 Weft) where the rotational speed will cause these fibres to detach and fly around.
Annoying yes, but it does stopm after a while, sooner if the wheel is loaded with it's respective compound.
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Thanks GBF, yes I agree. Always wearing eye and lung protection in the workshop is a definite must do for me anyway. Since posting I've also vacuumed the workshop.
Thanks dr4g0nfly for your comments. I checked (online) the appearance of new mops against mine and the wax mop has definitely shredded excessively for the use it's had and I wouldn't have expected such fraying. The Beall system does work well, it's just the shedding that's the problem and the amount of fluff and fibre shed this time round was more than when the mops were new and I 'bed them in'. The tripoli mop doesn't seem to be an issue. Also that's the mop that gets loaded with compound. The other two are the ones that Beall recommend to load only very lightly.
The mess and discharge in the air and on surfaces puts me off using the system so I need to identify the issue, I guess I'll buy replacement white diamond and wax mops and and monitor condition.
Thanks again, I appreciate both of your comments.
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I use the Chestnut system, which seems very similar, but I must admit that your photograph shows a very considerable degree of shedding of fibres and I've certainly not experienced anything like this much on my wheels. I suggest that you speak directly to your supplier, because this just doesn't look right!
Les
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In a previous existence of mine the buffing wheel was required to be fitted with significant extraction to pass muster for that very reason. Trouble was quite a few items got lost in it !
ATB John
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Thanks John. Yes extraction's a must but shedding was excessive yesterday!
Hi Les, yes my thoughts too are that the (wax) mop just shouldn't breakdown like it has. I can't remember if it looked like this before I put it on yesterday. I've not used the system that much since new and haven't 'abused' it as far as I'm aware. My wife bought it as a present for me while up at the November Harrogate show quite a few years ago. I'm not sure who's stand it was but I'm pretty certain they have a stand each year. This morning I've read through a previous post on this forum (including your input) regards Beall v Chestnut products (2014 I think?). It was a very interesting thread with good comments and one poster gave The Polishing Shop as an alternative supplier too. On a positive note, I've now read up about B, G and WDR grade mops, the materials and uses etc, so I'm more knowledgable now.
Don't know if The Toolpost' exhibit at Harrogate but they seem to be the only UK supplier. Think I'll contact The Toolpost, get their opinions and see whether anyone else has reported such breakdown on Beall mops.
Thanks again to all that replied and I'll post if I find out any useful info.
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I use the chestmut ones as well and thoiugh they do break down at first that soon stops. The ones you have look as though they are far too loosely woven
Pete
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Sandy you have not said what speed you are running them at, perhaps a slightly lower speed may be of assistance here.
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hi Sandy
in a previous life I wrote a couple a magazine articles using both the Toolpost and Chestnut systems, both from new. they both behaved as Pete mentioned, ditching threads for a while before settling down with little or no malting in the long term. I preferred the Chestnut version and have been using it ever since. I would hazard a guess that you are perhaps using the wheels at far too high a speed. If you are unable to distort the cotton wheels, considerably, as you polish they are, in my opinion spinning too fast.
All the best
Brian
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I do run them at high speed with some woods as it rams the polish into the surface of the wood (by high I mean over 1000rpm) but have old ones that are well worn to do this. High speed with new ones will shred the surface of the cloth initially but as you use them the wax tends to impregnate the cloth and prevent that. I still think however the that the weave on those you have is far too open compared to my Chestnut ones. Just got some new ones and had a look, much tighter weave.
Pete
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Hi BHT, Brian, Pete,
Thanks for your posts. I run these 8" mops at around 1700rpm as that's what the Beall instructions state although I noted that Craft Supplies USA state 1500 rpm in a youtube video. Yes, the weave on the wax mop has definitely opened up and I don't remember seeing it like that when I put it on the mandrel before use last Thursday, so assume that's the cause of a lot of the fluff and fibre that was everywhere when I had stopped polishing.
The W.Diamond mop looks like one further use would bring it close to the extent of fraying that the war mop has, but isn't at that stage yet. But I know there was a substantial amount of fluff and fibre around when I'd finished using it prior to using the wax mop..
When running at 1700 rpm, the 8" mops do not distort much but will spread when the wood makes contact.
As I don't see W.Diamond or Wax residues on the respective mops,I'm wondering if I didn't apply sufficient to each mop to build up the initial layers when I first had them? But then, last Thursday was the first time I've had such a problem with mess and damage to the mops.
I have a set of the small bowl mops which I used last Thursday as well and have experienced no problems with those.
Thanks again for info and advice.
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Remember that the bigger the diameter the faster the outside of the mop is travelling. 1700 seems fast to me and personally I rarely go that fast. The mop would be solid with the chestnut system at that speed.
Pete
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Thanks Pete.
I'll put it back on and run at 1700 rpm to check the 'stiffness factor'.
i'm loathe to use it again as it looks as though it's ready to totally breakdown - and I don't want another forced 'spring clean' of the workshop :) I'll discuss with The ToolPost later today.
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Hi Sandy
I dress the new buffs by running a sharp edge of dry hard wood over the buffs then over load them with the compounds and re dress them. As Pete says once they are loaded they behave a bit better.
I never run them over 1300 revs and mostly around 1000. I’ve just broken in a white diamond one and it’s ok and will be starting a new tripoli shortly so will see how that one goes.
Cheers
Michael
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Hi Michael,
The speed that Beall advises (1725 rpm) is certainly greater than you and some of the guys above are suggesting. Are you using Beall or Chestnut mops or some other suppliers?
Thanks
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Hi Sandy
It’s the Beall system. Been using it for years. Having said that I’ve never tried any of the others. Lately I have been considering buying off the shelf mops but not so keen to do that without seeing them first. Might just take a chance off EBay though.
Cheers
Michael
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Off the shelf ones are usually sewn and very stiff and also go onto a cone shaped screw thread so a different shaft would be needed.
Pete
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Hi Pete,
I found unstitched ones and the mounting bolt will fit through the middle. Just not sure how sturdy they are. Would like to get a hold of one first. Not that expensive so might just give it a go.
Cheers
Michael
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I buy my mops from the motorbike shop locally. Apparently bikers like to buff their chrome ::) ::) ::)
I have never had the problems mentioned here. I also clean my mops occasionally with 40 or 60 grit sandpaper of a clean wire brush. Works for me.
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Thanks for all posts, lots of information being provided and shared on my problem and buffing experiences in general. It seems my problem is rare, to say the least! I've contacted the ToolPost and waiting for them to get back to me.
Thanks again,
Sandy
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I’ve been on holiday so apologies for my tardiness in posting an update. I checked and found that the instructions that came with my Beall system also had The ToolPost details so I felt happy to call their Customer Services team and then followed up with an email of the images of the mops the next morning.
Felix Hemsley, Gen Mgr, emailed me back within two hours with some questions on my use of the system which I answered that afternoon. He came back to me the next morning, Thursday, to say he’d pass on the information to Beall in the US. Felix came back to me again the following Monday to say he’d discussed my problem with Beall who'd agreed to replace the two damaged mops. They couldn’t add much on possible cause but it does seem it’s a very low level of occurrence.
The ToolPost willingly took on my query and handled it very promptly without me having to chase for feedback which I find quite unusual nowadays. I didn’t expect such a great resolution especially as it was impossible to define exactly what the root cause was. I think both the ToolPost and Beall have demonstrated very good customer care and I thought it was worth passing on this example of such service.
And thanks to the posters above who offered their advice and comments.
Kind regards
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Aha I think some of the problem is with the cloth I have several buffs that I hold in the lathe. One of them, the latest has major shedding issues as its looks like some over excited cat all the others are fine. So far it defies all my efforts to sort it out I am about to trim the frills off with scissors as a last ditch, so will see how it goes.
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I get through the wheels fairly quickly but I do tend to buff a lot faster and harder than most.
Pete
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In reply to Sandy's comments about the outcome I cannot speak about Beall as I never use them but I would not expect nothing less from Toolpost as they have always been a reputable company IMHO. They also stock some stuff that other firms don't.