AWGB Woodturning Forum
General Category => Tool tips & reviews => Topic started by: JollyJim on October 11, 2018, 02:50:49 PM
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Hi everyone
One of my big problems is with the dreaded skew. I started off
with a fairly large one that came with the lathe and it was just beyond my ability.
Later, I bought a smaller one (we're talking flat skews...) and had a bit
more success, but still could never guarantee getting to the end of a piece
without damage. Again, later, I bought an oval one and seemed to
get on a lot better with it, but still needed much more learning.
Then I saw the spindlemaster on a youtube and it looked amazing so
I bought the 3/4" jobbie and seemed at home with it straight
away and I was pleased with the progress I was making. And now, it
all seems to have gone backwards and where I thought I was mastering
it, suddenly I seemed to have lost total control.
When 'it's working' for me, it's great but then just seems to go
uncontrollable even more than my skew work (which I am
still practising slowly and unsurely haha).
I just wondered if any of you guys have any experience
with the spindlemaster.....
thanks for reading .. regards - Jim
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I use a skew more than any other tool and have severa, oval and flat. I am afraid that it just a case of practice. Biggest problem a lot of people have is they treat it like a gouge. You must always start with the bevel and then just plane with the bottom third when turning down a spindle. It gets used for all sorts of different things though such as beads, coves etc. Have a look at some of Steve Jones videos to see what can be done with it. As I said, just practice I am afraid and if possible get someone who uses one to show you and give a bit of tuition.
Pete
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Thanks for that Pete...
Yep, I'm still trying, but, a dumb question for you.... I've seen many
youtube videos of skew-work. Some have the long point up. and some have it down.
I tend to have more success with it up, but, is there a 'proper' way ?
Thanks - regards - Jim
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If you are planing along a spindle the short point should be down. You use the long tip mainly for making slots, parting off ore slicing along the end grain but that is perhaps a bit further down the experience line LOL. Have a look at some of these videos (https://www.youtube.com/user/woodturner21/videos) and watch a master at work.
Pete
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Pete, thanks again for the reply.
I just watched the first one where he lathed a ball with just the skew....just
totally unbelievable !!!!! and, it was perfect size to the template !!!
I'm gonna go lie down before I look at any more....just amazing
Thanks, regards - Jim
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Watch Alan Batty
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfeLAHQSbqk
as good skew instruction as you will get
Fred Taylor
orchard=woodturners.org.uk
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Hi Jim
I'm over on the Norfolk coast near Great Yarmouth. I'd be glad to get you going with the skew if you fancy the trip.
In my experience most of the trouble beginners have is down to sharpening. Bevels with single planes, either flat or slightly concave (from the grinding wheel) is imperative... even slightly convex or, worst of all, multi-facetted and you are asking for trouble.
There are any number of ways to use the tool so there's no single 'proper' one. We all tend to use the one we feel happiest with. Best to concentrate on understanding what you are trying to achieve and building on that than trying to learn parrot fashion from someone else's biases, experience's and opinions.
The width and shape of tool is unimportant to learning but the largest area of bevel behind the cutting edge is the secret to easier understanding of what's going on at the coalface. This normally means going for either narrow and thick or, more usually, a wide (and harder to sharpen successfully!!!!) version.
My final piece of advice is to dump any idea of by-passing the skew or seeking an alternative. In my opinion mastering the skew is the key to moving from beginner to intermediate status. Not because the tool itself has any magic properties but, as you are finding, it just aint easy and motivating yourself to succeed is what will carry your turning forward and upward.
I hope some of that helps.
Brian
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Hi Jim,
Where you say -
When 'it's working' for me, it's great but then just seems to go
uncontrollable even more than my skew work (which I am
still practising slowly and unsurely haha).
I can almost see what you are doing wrong, overreaching from your stance position.
If you get a sharpie or similar and draw a line down the centre of the skews length, you need to keep the cut below that line. If you seem to be doing okay and then lose it, it's almost certainly because you've moved your hands too far, caused the skew to turn or move above the centre line (balance point) and Ooop's, a catch happens.
Another trick is to use the sharpie and colour in the bevel on the underside, then when you've made a cut, turn the skew over and see where the black mark has been burnished off. That will show you where you are cutting, again, you need to stay in the sweet spot about 1/3rd the way up the edge from the lower point,
Lastly, even experts get catches, they just have fewer and fewer as they learn and have learnt how to control them by feeling them develop and adjusting the cutting angle before it all goers wrong.
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Thanks everyone for your time and suggestions.
You are all basically saying the same thing ie, keep going with the skew, so, I shall put
the Spindlemaster into hibernation for a while and do as you say.
I'm spending time with the youtube vids, but really liked the ideas from dr4g0nfly, thanks...
Also, the ideas from bodrighywood were well received, thanks...
BrianH, thanks very much for your comments, and particularly the invitation. I'll
keep that on the back burner for a while if I may, meanwhile, if you're in the Peterborough
area at any time, give me a shout and the kettle will be on.....but thanks again
Regards to all - Jim
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Ihave helped one or two people with using a skew, and the problem for them was they gripped the handle to tightly. Try this for your self, just hold a skew, no lathe started!, and then grip it tight and watch the tip, it will rotate slightly causing the bevel to lift and the edge to cut deeper, and dig in. You need to learn to let the tool do the work.
A load of good advice above, just practice and learn to relax and let the tool do the job.
Ron
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Use your fingers not your fist.
Pete
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Axminster with Colwin Way, a skew expert, has a one day skew course at their skills center - if that helps
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Wow, another three replies....!!! Top Class Forum !!!!!
Thanks chaps, I'm taking in all these ideas and appreciate
your replies.
The LadyOfTheHouse is off today until tomorrow to see the
Cliff Richard concert in London, so hopefully, I'm gonna
get some undisturbed time in the garage..
Interestingly, no-one came back with any thoughts on
the spindlemaster...maybe I'm the only one hahaha
Thanks again guys, have a nice day. Regards - Jim
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Thoughts on the Spindlemaster: Just my opinion
1 It will not guarantee 'no more digs' as it claims
2 As it is oval on one side and flat on the other all it is is two style of skews in one and probably confusing, I haven't used it so just an opinion
3 The rounded tip would not be particularly easy to use for planing IMHO but could be easily reproduced with a standard skew if wished
4 A lot of money to spend on something that basically is unlikely to improve your skill level
Pete
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Hi
I must put my pennyworths in, get rid of that other thing and concentrate purely the flat skew with just the corners
Rounded over , get some softwood knock the corners off with a spindle roughing gouge and do some planeing cuts with the heelof your skew build your confidence up get comfortable with it when you have finished note the finish it should get better each time you use the same skew. Also mind you speed. Not to slow .
Also the skew does not deserve the reputation it has like a lot of things in this life we have to learn how to use these things properly ? Not throw them in the corner cussin and swearing and blame the tools when the fault lies with ourselves for not taking the time to learn how to use them properly.
That can all be summed up in one sentence learn to walk before you run.
No more statements like the dreaded skew be positive work at it one step at a time please remember some of these Turner's on this forum earn there living by using the skew.
Good luck practice practice and more practice.
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Hi Both, yep, will do
no more knocking the skew and the spindlemaster is in the drawer !!!!
thanks again for your replies
best wishes - Jim
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The spindlemaster has it's place but as stated is not really a replacement for the skew. I learnt with basic tools and got to understand them. Many people starting out get the impression that some of the new tools being brought out for turners are the answer to all of there problems. For example the carbide tipped tools so many think they will make them a great turner, personally I don't like them even though I have a set only because some one gave them to me.
I don't turn as a profession but as a hobby turner who enjoys making what I do.
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For my threepennyworth I have found it easier to grind the skew with slightly rounded corners and a distinct convex face. I can explain it to myself in that it is easier to get the cut on, it is not as critical as you lift the handle end and dig ins are very few now.
Also don’t forget how useful the skew is when just using the corners to cut beads and grooves.
I haven’t got it perfected, but have improved a lot with this grind.
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We must remember that for some turners the spindlemaster will be the best thing since sliced bread but the rest of us should, I feel, learn how to turn using the basic tools first before branching out into unknown territory. As an apprentice one of the things I remember doing is being shown how to turn a bead on a piece of wood. I then had to turn ten identical beads next to it and get the chap teaching me to inspect them. His comment was usually "nah!" as he put a cross on poor beads, most of them infact but eventually there would be ocassional "yup" and a tick.My aim was to turn ten beads correctly ten times in a row. If I got one wrong I started from the beginning again. Took me about six weeks and then I was shown how to do coves using the same method.
I say to the students that come for lessons that there are only two things that will make you a good turner, one is sharp tools and the other is time spent at the lathe. We have all heard of the 10,000 hours, there are no short cuts . It is a bit like the artist who said that every stroke of paint was thought about before it was made so in woodturning when every cut is deliberate, think of the final shape and use the chisel to make it.
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I didn't have the priviledge of an apprenticeship but I was taught in school to treat every cut as a practice cut and aim to make it perfect. When all you have is skews and scrapers you try hard believe me.
Pete
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I am all the way with John on the two things that will make you a good turner, and I'd like to offer a third: a good understanding how tools cut the wood.
Once this understanding is in place, it doesn't matter which tool you pick up, you figure out how it cuts the wood and off you go. I'd venture to say that people who struggle with the skew, will also struggle with the spindlemaster, and every other tool.
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Thanks again everyone for your time.
I've watched the advised videos, listened to all your suggestions
and have practised and finally felt that I got somewhere.
I've only messed about with some scrap but, no prob, I used
both the flat skew and the oval and, for the most part, felt I was
in control. I wanted to try turning between centres with my new
collet chuck (which I am knocked out with......thanks Derek).
To start with, I made a dead centre from Polyethylene using the
skew.(I was surprised how hard this material is, as I'd read in other
posts how easy it turns...) Anyway, I mounted an acrylic pen
blank on this centre, live end at the tailstock, took it down to
round with a roughing gouge and used the skew from there
on in. I got it to almost finished and was intending to get
to a point where I did'nt even need to sand it cos I
was getting on so well, when I got clumsy and caught the
long point which, not only broke the acrylic, but nackered the brass tube.
Not to be beaten, I skewed the rest of the acrylic off, which was good
practice and went well, and used an apple blank this time. Again,
used the skew right down to final and just needed a top up with
1200 grit,
So, thanks to all your encouragement and good advice, I feel
as though I'm finally getting somewhere - just another
999,950 hours to go.....
thanks again chaps -Top Class Forum - regards, Jim
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can I be the first to congratulate and thank Jim for his last entry.
Congratulate him on his obvious move forward and thank him for letting us all know about it. How many times in the past have people set a problem, taken all the various pieces of advice offered and then disappeared never to be heard of again?
All the best Jim
Brian
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Thanks Brian
....much appreciated...
regards - Jim
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Hi All,
It's probably under the wrong subject now, but heigh-ho, I just
thought I would give a quick update for those
that helped me with all the advice in this post on the skew.
I've not been in the garage much lately, but a few weeks
ago I made a few pens and an urn for the ashes of our
beloved 20 year old cat,most of the work apart from
getting to the round with a roughing gouge, was done
with the 1inch skew. I found I was getting much more
confident, and more importantly, why it was working
in the way that it was.
Yesterday, I needed to start work on a length of 2x2 rough
sawn elm. I really tested myself and went at it from square,
with the skew and, yep, so far so good. And again, I was
finally understanding how it all works. I did'nt have time to
finish it, but I've put a piccie up here to show progress.
So, thanks again everyone who gave me the shove I
needed.....upwards and onwards !!!!!!
Best wishes to all - Jim
ps and, yes, I did actually put the spindlemaster in the drawer !!!!
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Jim,
more power to you for persisting with the skew, and not surrendering to it. Well done.
Bryan
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Jim,
more power to you for persisting with the skew, and not surrendering to it. Well done.
Bryan
+1 for what Bryan said
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its a damn shame I couldn't get you over here for a skewy lesson Jim. I could so easily have nicked all the glory of your obvious progress...…..
Whats next? Skewing your way into all those przzies on Christmas day?
All the best and happy Chrimble
Brian
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Hi All,
thanks y'all for the replies....
I fear, I'm not gonna be allowed any time to myself in the
garage for a few weeks as I will, no doubt, be sternly directed
as to what and when and who(???hahaha) I can enjoy.
At the moment, I'm trying to finish the task I started 6 weeks ago,
of backing up the main computer, which should theoretically,
be a reasonably simple job. Theory says, 'copy this folder
from this place to that place'. Practice says '****ocks' !!!!
And that's where the time goes...
Brian, don't eat all the mince pies yet - I'm still only
really doing 'easy' pieces although I'm quite happy with
my progress.....But ...,, I foresee lots of nicks and
bad language coming along when I try for coves
and beads and things !!
best wishes - Jim
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Horses for courses I always say, Jim. In my opinion our Mr Skewy just isn't the best tool for cutting coves and is even questionable for beads. People folk just like to challenge themselves I suppose...…. Is that a howl of derision I hear?
Brian
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The skew isn't always the best for coves, especially smaller diameter ones but it is just about perfect for beads in fact better than a spindle gouge as you can make a much tighter cut.
Pete