AWGB Woodturning Forum
General Category => Tool tips & reviews => Topic started by: JollyJim on October 04, 2018, 03:26:59 PM
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Hi y'all,
I've been enjoying this site for a long time, but only just joined as I am hoping
someone can enlighten me on the subject of collets.
Basically, I want the ability to hold wooden dowels from, let's say 6mm up to about 17mm,
rather than using my four jaw chuck. I want the holder to run in my morse taper1 fixing and
I've read so much, that I'm totally confused with ER numbers, straight, tapered, thread
sizes, nut sizes etc etc. I presume that collets are much more common within the metal working area, and this
is a subject I have no knowledge of whatsoever.
If any kind member can spend a bit of time letting me know exactly what I would need
to buy, I'll be kind to my wife for the evening !!!!!
Thanks in advance, also, thanks for all the previous pleasure and knowledge
I have got from this site....
best wishes - Jim
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I cannot tell you what the difference between the ER numbers mean (ER 25, ER32 etc). But if you look at the Axminster catalogue here (https://www.axminster.co.uk/accessories/machinery-accessories/drilling-milling/milling-accessories/collets-collet-holders (https://www.axminster.co.uk/accessories/machinery-accessories/drilling-milling/milling-accessories/collets-collet-holders)), it is basically a 2MT stub that is put in the headstock and you can fit different collets depending upon what size stock you need to hold.
Axminster also do a Mini Chuck that screws directly onto the common rance of headstock threads and takes ER20 collets, (https://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-junior-chuck-ax22446 (https://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-junior-chuck-ax22446)).
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Thanks dr4g0nfly for the reply. The Junior Chuck looks quite interesting and they do
a version for my thread....I'll give it some thought!!!!!
Incidentally, the reason I stated I wanted one to run in my morse taper, is because
I just assumed that a morse taper would run 'truer' than a screw thread connection,
but, it is just an assumption and I have no evidence to support that theory. Do you have
any thought on that at all ?
Thanks again
best wishes - Jim
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I do have 2 thoughts on that.
1. To hold a morse taper in properly, you do need to actually knock it in with a wooden mallet (try it and see that is recesses further than if you push by hand). Also if not propperly seated, it can come lose - I have experience of Jacobs chucks doing just that.
2. any damage (scrape etc) from a morse taper mandrel twisting in the barrel may cause the collet mandrel to run, just ever so slightly, out of true.
But they are just my thoughts, a true mech eng may know better.
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Thanks again dr4g0nfly- food for thought...It's mostly for penmaking that I'm thinking and
for other small bits and bobs, but your two comments certainly make sense.
....just love your 'Money does talk, mostly it says ‘Goodbye'....especially to my BossLady hahaha
Regards - Jim
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Apoplogies if I am stating the obvious but......A lot depends on the type of work you want to do. Each size of dowel you want to use would need its own dedicated collet as the tolerance is about -1.0mm on most collets and -0.5mm on smaller sizes. The joy of a collet is accuracy, degree and quality of of grip, speed and ease as well as holding the end of a longer piece of stock with the rest inside the headstock spindle. As you want to go to 17mm I assume that is not a requirement as your No 1 MT is about 12mm at its biggest. My collet arbor is held in an old "c" spanner type of chuck which is not used for anything else as it has been superseded by scroll chucks. If I make a dowel for a piece it can be held very securely without the marking that one tends to get with a scroll chuck jaw but the dowel has to be made specific to the size of the collet. If your dowels are hidden a small scroll chuck might be a better option.
ATB John
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Hi John, thanks for the reply.
Yes, I had'nt thought of the size of the mt1 cavity imposing a maximum size of the dowel, so, thanks
for that. I mainly will use it for pen mandrels so, would probably only need one or two collets.
Finials and fiddly little things, i could probably make using the same collets.
But, if collets are more accurate, then I would happily gradually buy one now and again to make up
a kit.
Thanks for your thoughts
best wishes - Jim
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If you have an Axminster chuck you can get Internal jaws 504481 whish will close to half mm and give you full range of dowels. If for pen making get a 1mt pen mandrel which will allow to make any type of tubed pen.
Fred Taylor
orchard-woodturners.org.uk
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Thanks for the advice Fred,
I do use a mt1 mandrel but was curious as to whether it would
run truer in a collet.
I suppose what I am trying to decide is whether collets
run truer than tapers, but I'm sure everyone would
have a different take on it.
Thanks again - best wishes - Jim
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Hi Jim
To help you with your confusion about the relative accuracies of morse taper and/or nose thread may I point out that it is NOT the thread which offers the accuracy but the small face behind and surrounding it. Kept clean and undamaged it will offer all the precision you will ever need.
I wonder if you have thought of making wooden collets in order to protect the smile on your bank manager's fizzog….. albeit at the cost of Mr Axminster's? Just about all holding equipment can be safely made using hard wood and initiative, they may not last a lifetime but, hey, you can always make another.
All the best
Brian
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Hi Brian,Thanks for the reply and that is quite a good idea regarding making your own collet or similar holding
mechanism.
I just realised last night, during a lull in the BossLady's moaning and order-giving, that, my mt1 pen mandrel
is, in fact, a collet holder and collet !!!!! I've no idea if any other collets would fit in it, and still interested to know
what the ER numbers mean, but, I think I'll just take a few paracetemol, lay down and give the brain a rest !!!!
Meanwhile, thanks again Brian, I'll definitely look about making my own..... Best wishes - Jim
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ER numbers... ERRRRRRRRRRRRR, Nope, no idea!!!!!!
Brian
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Hi
If you really want to know what er collets are and what er stands for have a gander on Wikipedia site have fun bye
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Thanks Redtails.......
I've just read the Wikipedia site and, although it's like opening a can
of worms, I think I've got enough knowledge to satisfy my curiosity.
..... now, I really am gonna have to lay down......!!!!!
thanks again....best wishes - Jim
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Hi
Jolly Jim don't stress it's only a way of distinguishing between different types of tapers
And what they are used for if you could not use a pure Morse taper on a router travelling at
28,000 rpm or a r7 taper in a Morse taper socket.it would not fit.
Hope the headache gets better 📣📣📣
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Why do you need a collet system to turn pens. There is a proper pen mandrel to which you buy bushes to suit the type of pen turned along with that a pen saver is a good idea.
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Hi Derek, thanks for the reply.
Good question.....it's more of interest than anything I guess. I have a fascination for
accuracy. An engineering friend of mine once told me that 'I was trying to get engineering
accuracy in woodwork' which, I guess, is not always possible. I don't come from an engineering background, nor,
for that matter, from a woodworking career. I'm retired now and spent the first half of my working
time in IT and the second half as an HGV Driver....a bit of an odd mix you might think !!!!
I just find anything to do with making things, understanding how things work etc , totally
fascinating as, in a lot of ways, it's all new to me.
I'm still trying to understand the difference between a posidrive and a phillips !!!!!! (Mind
you, I bet I'm not the only one !!!!!
Anyway, I'm having a great time learning....one of the first things I picked up is how
to get all your swear words into one sentence when that last shave of the skew digs in !!!!
Thanks again Derek - best wishes - Jim
(PS driving a big truck is better....!!!!!!)
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You can also turn pens between centres by not having a mandrel some bush sets have a cone in the end for just that reason. When turning pens I use a mandrel but use tapered bushes without to much pressure otherwise the end can splay out and crack the wood/acrylic. I always measure the fittings and then turn the ends to suit that rather than rely on bushes.
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Hi Derek , thanks for that.
I've seen that on YouTube. I might give it a go.
It looks difficult getting an exact measurement on the digital calipers though.
I assume you measure the pen fitting first and then lathe down to that size ?
Cheers - Jim
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Derek, sorry I misread your last one.
I was thinking of measuring without having a bushing. I had'nt seen the ones
you mentioned where the bushing has a cone on it.
Jim
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Jim have a look at rjbwoodturner on youtube. He uses between centres turning pens
Fred Taylor
Orchard-woodturners.org.uk
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Hi Derek, thanks for the reply.
Good question.....it's more of interest than anything I guess. I have a fascination for
accuracy. An engineering friend of mine once told me that 'I was trying to get engineering
accuracy in woodwork' which, I guess, is not always possible. I don't come from an engineering background, nor,
for that matter, from a woodworking career. I'm retired now and spent the first half of my working
time in IT and the second half as an HGV Driver....a bit of an odd mix you might think !!!!
I just find anything to do with making things, understanding how things work etc , totally
fascinating as, in a lot of ways, it's all new to me.
I'm still trying to understand the difference between a posidrive and a phillips !!!!!! (Mind
you, I bet I'm not the only one !!!!!
Anyway, I'm having a great time learning....one of the first things I picked up is how
to get all your swear words into one sentence when that last shave of the skew digs in !!!!
Thanks again Derek - best wishes - Jim
(PS driving a big truck is better....!!!!!!)
Getting the swear words in one sentence is easy, when you become better at turning you then have to get them all in alphabetical order in one sentence, takes skill that does.!! ;D ;D ;D
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Hiya The Bowler Hatted Turner
I was just enduring the nightly torture of Eastenders that my BossLady
insists that I 'enjoy' with her, when I read your wonderful response.
Thanks for that, I have'nt laughed so much for ages !!!!
Many thanks - best wishes, Jim
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I assume you measure the pen fitting first and then lathe down to that size ?
Cheers - Jim
That is correct.
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Ht Fred, thanks for replying
I had a look at a good few of his videos and they are quite
amazing. There's a lot of them, but I picked up on some of
the turning between centres ones. which I found quite
interesting.
He's got a very active imagination when it comes to
segmenting blanks etc and the accuracy he works to,
Thanks again, very educational. Best wishes - Jim
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Thanks Derek
lots of ideas floating around in the grey matter.
Cheers and regards - Jim
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I have a collet chuck which screws on to the spindle rather than a morse taper. That has the benefit of not needing any tailstock support / draw bar to keep the morse taper in place. Very useful when doing things of a specific size but limited range for each collet. I have the common sizes I use rather than the full range!
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Hi Paul, thanks for the reply
I'll keep an eye out for that....sounds interesting.
cheers, regards - Jim
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If your lathe has a 3/4" X 16 thread then there is also this collet set (https://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/SCT-Wood-Lathe-Collet-System----.html)
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Hi Derek
thanks (I think) for replying......I could'nt resist and ordered it last night.
Luckily, it is the correct size for my Record Power lathe.
It looks a nice outfit, just gotta get to the postman before She sees it
thanks again.... regards, Jim
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The collet set arrived in good time and I've been having
a play with it.
I am knocked out with the quality of it for, not a bad price.
I do quite a lot of pen making, using, normally, a mandrel which
has always been ok, but I feel that TBC using this collet, seemed
even smoother and totally vibration-free.
I made a dead centre from polyethylene and am pleased
with the outcome. Just for the hell of it, and to test my
'talent', I'm gonna try make a live centre for the tailstock.
Wish me luck !!
So, onwards and upwards and, as usual, thankyou all for
your advice and suggestions.
Best wishes - Jim
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Glad the collet has arrived even though I don't use mine all the time I do find it very handy for some jobs. Have sent you a PM earlier
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Thanks Derek - have responded
Jim