AWGB Woodturning Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Les Symonds on July 21, 2018, 08:49:51 PM
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A couple of years ago a local tree surgeon who finds all sorts of goodies for me, burst through my shop door carrying a big lump of timber. He's a huge bloke with a booming voice, which rang out, "This any good to you, Syms?"
What he was carrying appeared to be a good-sized burr, which he assured me was a wellingtonia. Well, a burr it definitely was not, but it was quite understandable that a tree surgeon would mistake it for one. It was a broadly hemi-spherical lump, about 65cm diameter and 20cm deep and its smell was amazing.
I turned it today and once again, the smell returned a strongly as before. It turned really well without any tear out, and there was loads of evidence of resin pockets, most of which had crystalised into hard, silvery deposits in the grain. The bark was beautiful, very like English Walnut bark, in that it appears to be made up of strata of varying intensity in colour, but instead of walnut brown, this was a range of reds.
Anyway, what is left is a 16" x 5" bowl with s waxy feel to it, which is presumably resinous content in the timber. What I need to know is what I can do to the surface to reduce the waxiness of the resin, otherwise I fear that it will all bubble up to the surface and spoil the finish. I've tried wiping it with cellulose thinners, so we'll see what it feels like in the morning. I'm just interested to see if anyone else has turned this timber and how they got on with the problem of the resin.
Les
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I had this problem once with Cedar and I tried everything to remove the resin.In the end I rang Mark Baker and he said the only thing that would remove it was celulose thiners and he was right one good wipe over removed it then about a month later it was the same again.I removed it again and that did the trick it never came back
It took two aplications but it did the trick
Regards George
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That's very useful to know, George. I was making stock for a summer show at a gallery, so I better not send this until it's had time to settle and had its second wash.
Thanks George....Les
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To remove the oiliness from Teak, you wipe it with Acetone.
Try a drop of Sally's nail varnish remover on an offcut or the base.
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Thanks Bryan....that triggered a memory from my grammar school days, of the woodwork teacher telling us to wash the surface of teak with carbon tet (tetrachloride) to remove the greasiness. I'd probably have a greater chance of finding it in our house, than I would of finding nail varnish remover.....Sal never uses nail varnish!
Les
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Les I know as a professional turner you will take all sensible precautions but as the H&S chap I have to say to you to be careful. This extract taken from a public health site: Carbon Tetrachloride can be toxic in both liquid and gas forms. The chemical is dangerous if it's ingested, inhaled, or absorbed through your skin. Poisoning can cause toxic hepatitis and death. Animal studies have also linked exposure to this chemical with hepatocellular carcinoma, which is a type of liver cancer.
Gorgeous grain on the bowl though, well done .
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Thank you John....fear not, I have no intention of buying carbon tet. My original idea, backed up by George's suggestion, of using cellulose thinners has worked a treat. I gave it a thorough wash last night, then a second wash a few hours later, which brought the surface dry enough to be able to sand.
The grain looks even more spectacular now that it's been properly cleaned up (last night's picture was straight off the tool), and I've given it a coat of BLO, which has brought the colour up to a beautiful mixture of reds and browns.
Les
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Hope you can kep the reds Les as usually they just turn brown, be nice if you can.
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Hope you can kep the reds Les as usually they just turn brown, be nice if you can.
In that case, I shall find a prominent spot for it inside the shop and keep it away from the window....hope it sells quickly.
Les
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I think you'll find Carbon Tet is a CFC and banned under the Montreal Protocol.
However Acetone (nail varnish remover) is available in 100ml bottles for £1 from the £1 shops.
I keep a bottle handy within reach of the lathe, as it's also the chemical that devolves dissolves Superglue (top tip). And as Acetone is naturally produced by the body, generally harmless, but please don't drink it!
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I love the way that a post on this forum can result in all sorts of information being exchanged....good stuff going on here!
Les
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What intrigues me is we all know the general properties of acetone and we all know not to drink it but does this mean that someone did drink it to find out? Incidentally the smell of acetone(pear drops) on the breath is an indicator for diabetes.
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Indeed John...and by the way, the red colour of the timber is absolutely singing this afternoon....it's had a couple of coats of BLO and is really looking the biz.
Will try to get some photos later.... Les
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John.
No, no one tried to drink acetone to my knowledge. But a few years back I posted a thread about a particularly nasty, but useful paint thinner and the thread took off as if it was suggested that people were going to start doing stupid things with it, like drink it!
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Typical ::) ::) ::)
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A couple of years ago a local tree surgeon who finds all sorts of goodies for me, burst through my shop door carrying a big lump of timber. He's a huge bloke with a booming voice, which rang out, "This any good to you, Syms?"
What he was carrying appeared to be a good-sized burr, which he assured me was a wellingtonia. Well, a burr it definitely was not, but it was quite understandable that a tree surgeon would mistake it for one. It was a broadly hemi-spherical lump, about 65cm diameter and 20cm deep and its smell was amazing.
I turned it today and once again, the smell returned a strongly as before. It turned really well without any tear out, and there was loads of evidence of resin pockets, most of which had crystalised into hard, silvery deposits in the grain. The bark was beautiful, very like English Walnut bark, in that it appears to be made up of strata of varying intensity in colour, but instead of walnut brown, this was a range of reds.
Anyway, what is left is a 16" x 5" bowl with s waxy feel to it, which is presumably resinous content in the timber. What I need to know is what I can do to the surface to reduce the waxiness of the resin, otherwise I fear that it will all bubble up to the surface and spoil the finish. I've tried wiping it with cellulose thinners, so we'll see what it feels like in the morning. I'm just interested to see if anyone else has turned this timber and how they got on with the problem of the resin.
Les
[/quote that is a lump of Douglas Fir ....
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...that is a lump of Douglas Fir ....
Twig....It took me a while to find your comment....it has become included in my quoted text.
It is definitely not Douglas Fir. I have no reason to doubt the word of a professional tree surgeon who knows his trees better then just about anyone else who I know. He has been managing the woodland on the estate where this piece of timber came from and his word is fine by me..
Les
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Hi Les ...I am certain it is Douglas fir ....I have been a professional arborist since the mid 1980.s and a wood turner for over 20 years and I own some woodland that is mostly Douglas fir . Please obtain a piece of DF and smell it . also the bark is instantly recognisable , Redwood is very different , a thick fibrous bark and the wood has very little smell , I am not being pedantic , just thought I was being informative ......I was at Bala few weeks ago and wanted to visit your shop but unfortunately it was closed ( Sunday )
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Sorry, I am not one of your professionals and don’t know what BLO is, could you explain, please?
And I hate TLA’s!
John
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Sorry, I am not one of your professionals and don’t know what BLO is, could you explain, please?
And I hate TLA’s!
John
Hello John....BLO stands for Boiled Linseed Oil.
What does TLA stand for?
Les
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Hi Les ...I am certain it is Douglas fir ....I have been a professional arborist since the mid 1980.s and a wood turner for over 20 years and I own some woodland that is mostly Douglas fir . Please obtain a piece of DF and smell it . also the bark is instantly recognisable , Redwood is very different , a thick fibrous bark and the wood has very little smell , I am not being pedantic , just thought I was being informative ......I was at Bala few weeks ago and wanted to visit your shop but unfortunately it was closed ( Sunday )
That poses a bit of a dilemma, TWiG. I now have two experienced people, each of whom sounds quite convincing. I've spent a while looking at images of both timbers, which hasn't really helped as this piece of timber is not of the straight-grained type that is usually shown to typify the species. I have worked DF many a time and am familiar with the smell, but the smell of this timber was different; sweeter and stronger. Are you sure that Wellingtonia has very little smell, because the Wood Database states that it has a distinct odour. Also, the colour seems too dark for DF, certainly compared to the DF that I've worked in the past.
Sorry we missed you when you were in Bala. We open on Sundays in the summer and around Christmas, but not out of season. It's always good to meet fellow turners at the shop, so do call if ever you're passing again and drop me a line if it's outside shop hours as we live just a 2 minute walk from the shop and it's no bother to pop over there.
Les
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TLAs are the bane of modern life...
Three Letter Acryonims!
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Hello Les,
Just to chip in from timber I have turned in the past few years. The bark you describe on your piece sounds very much like the Douglas Fir I turned. The Wellingtonia I used had a 20 - 30 mm thick bark which was very soft, fibrous and spongy. In order to retain the bark on the piece I spent hours hardening it before turning the machine on. The Douglas Fir gave no such challenge. That said burrs, whorls or knuckles very often have a different bark and grain colour to the main timber. My Wellingtonia had a pinky brownish red colour similar to your lovely piece. My Douglas fir was much lighter in colour (and very unstable but that is a separate issue).
I too saw the Pren Shop window in Bala on my way home after attending a birthday party on Anglesey a few weeks ago. It certainly looked the part. To maintain a shop front and carry on the making must throw up difficulties according to others I have spoken to. My local craft guild has a shop which means that stewarding duties and upkeep are shared. I feel that it is a good compromise between my having a place of my own and having to rely on my work in galleries.
ATB (oops a TLA !) John
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Hi , Les ....it is your second photo that shows the bark cut in to whilst roughing down that leaves no doubt in my mind that it is DF ..very distinctive ...hard to describe smells on the internet !!! Redwood ( both species ) is a very soft wood and will easily dent and almost impossible to get a shiny / glossy oiled finish with . I have turned some DF and it is great for sandblasting and or scorching as it has large growth rings and etches deeply easily to great effect.
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after reading this thread a few times i feel i should pipe up now.
Les, the first time i saw that wonderful bowl you have turned i felt like saying immediately that it's not wellingtonia. the reason i did not was due to the fat i could not actually say what the timber was so i said nothing.
after the last few post i researched alot of softwoods as they are not my strongest area when it comes to timber identification. as a conclusion i could only think that it was either western red cedar or douglas fir due to many factors including the aroma you described.
yes welly does have an aroma but is is merely a distinct one and not very powerful and would not fill the workshop like some others do. i've turned it wet and dry and it does not smell that powerful once it has seasoned a bit.
looking more at the grain of the timber at the bottom of the bowl i am more and more convinced that TWIG is correct about it being douglas fir. i have no experience of the bark but the timber variations are something i have seen quite alot of when you have researched as much about timber species as i have. TWIG's statement about the softness of the welly is also correct as you would have to harden the wood to get any sort of finish on it.
another deciding factor is the resin content you are concerned about as i've not come across that in welly. douglas fir will have resin though.
hope i haven't confused the matter further les?
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When I first started turning someone gave me a piece of what he called wellingtonia. It was very soft. This is that turning OK don't laugh it was when I started back in 2009. As can be seen quite a reddish colour
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This is quite a thread now but let's not lose sight of the fact that Les turned a lovely bowl from a stunning piece of timber. I know that the technical stuff can be important but the actual item is "importanter" ;D
ATB John