AWGB Woodturning Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: David Buskell on January 20, 2017, 04:06:26 PM
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Cheam Woodturners are pleased to announce that Lyle Jamieson will be doing a live remote demo from his studio in Michigan to the UK on Wednesday April 12th.
The demo will commence around 3pm and continue for approximately two hours.
The venue for this event will be Epsom College, College Road, Surrey, KT17 4JQ and tickets are available on a first come-first served basis.
For more details or to enquire about tickets, please PM me.
This is probably the first remote live demo booked by a UK woodturning club so why not come along and experience the meeting of woodturning and new technology. The attached article gives some background information.
“Interactive Remote Demos using live video” article used by kind permission of the AAW and American Woodturner.
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How much are the Tickets.
Regards George
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Have sent you a PM in reply.
David
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Ten pounds for a ticket seems reasonable to me.
Regards George
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If this is all being done remotely, can't people just watch it from home?
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If this is all being done remotely, can't people just watch it from home?
How could you watch it at home Paul
Regards George
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If this is all being done remotely, can't people just watch it from home?
Technically it would be feasible-you would need to be allowed access of course,that could possibly raise logistical and financial considerations for the organisers which they may not want to consider at this moment.
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George, I look forward to receiving your £10 you can use PayPal.
Paul, we have considered extending this event to our twinned club, Central Oklahoma but for the first event, we will stick with one club.
There are other turners in the USA and hopefully the UK that we want to get so might consider expanding the access for those. Will talk to the guru Alan z about this.
If your club has access to hard wired wifi then costs are lower and well within the range of what you would pay a demonstrator for an evening demo.
I see that WT 302 has a feature on remote live demos.
I understand that Mike Maloney has a studio and demos. He and his bowl saving techniques, would be a good demo topic.
For info, Lyle will be demonstrating a range of hollowing techniques.
If you are interested in attending, please pm me as we do genuinely only have a limited number of seats available.
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I am not likely to be coming David the only Demo's that interest me are live ones.
I just wondered what you were charging and it seems to me this is no cheaper than a live Demo.
Regards George
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David.
I think this is a great idea and you are to be commended for organizing it. On top of that 10 pounds for a demonstrator of that caliber is a bargain - certainly cheaper than what it would be if he had to travel from the US.
If I was based in the UK I'd have booked my ticket already.
Well done - don't be discouraged - sometimes it seems that a lot of us woodturners are "grumpy old men" and are change adverse.
Cheers
Pat
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If I wanted to watch him all I have to do is go on Utube he has more that 20 Video's and they are all free.
Regards George
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I wasn't suggesting linking clubs, I meant people watching it from the comfort of their own homes. After all, pretty much everyone has decent internet access these days and it's within the capabilities of the technology. It would also remove the need to travel to the club to watch it.
I can see the next step in this will be demonstrators charging direct individual "pay per demo" fees and cutting the clubs out altoghether because in this scenario, the club really adds nothing to the equation.
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I wasn't suggesting linking clubs, I meant people watching it from the comfort of their own homes. After all, pretty much everyone has decent internet access these days and it's within the capabilities of the technology. It would also remove the need to travel to the club to watch it.
I can see the next step in this will be demonstrators charging direct individual "pay per demo" fees and cutting the clubs out altoghether because in this scenario, the club really adds nothing to the equation.
If this is all being done remotely, can't people just watch it from home?
Technically it would be feasible-you would need to be allowed access of course,that could possibly raise logistical and financial considerations for the organisers which they may not want to consider at this moment.
Exactly Paul-I tried to be a little circumlocutive about it-but you called a spade a bloody shovel and hit it right on the head.
The other side of the coin is that our turners could be giving demos world wide,which is surely a good thing.
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YouTube doesn't answer questions - or zoom in on request.
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That's true but a well planned presentation will answer all your questions without you having to ask.
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Without Dem's a lot of pro turners would not survive, they rely on a mixed income selling Demo's and teaching.
Buskell has been promoting this for years and his agenda is cheapness and nothing to do with quality.
You cannot beat a good live Demo and there are plenty of good Demonstrators in this country.
If you want foreign Demonstrators look at the AWGB Seminar.
Regards George
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YouTube doesn't answer questions - or zoom in on request.
You'll often get replies to questions asked in You Tube comments, so that's a definite possibility.
'zoom in on request' ? That might be quite tricky for a lone demonstrator working in his workshop.
Frankly there are precious few decent close ups on YT videos I've seen anyway.
I think this is where the idea starts to fail. Trying to get good close ups and no ability to pass round an item for personal inspection makes remote demonstrations a lot less appealing. Especially when there are so many half decent videos on turning already easily available.
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Just reviewing the comments made on this thread again.
As always, whenever there is change, innovation or evolution there will be those who see the bigger picture and grab the opportunities presented. There will also be those who do not, will not, accept any change to their existing order of things. Each has the right to pursue their views.
GBF -Thanks for letting me know what my agenda is-it is good to know, but you're wrong.
APH - Handing around can be done but we don't have the facility to do so for this particular event. Check out some of the USA clubs that have done this and see how they have solved the problem, particularly the Trent Bosch demos, for example. I think this aspect is also something that the UK turners who are setting up studios for remote live demos need to consider.
As for Zoom in on request and good close-ups, well with a 3 camera set up this is easy and works well - at least it did when we asked Lyle to do this for us on our trial run. His overhead camera, which is only a small Logitech one, gives a superb resolution picture.
I suppose this is where live remote demos beat YouTube - because you have live real time interaction with the demonstrator just as you would have if the demonstrator was in your club venue, except in this instance, the demonstrator is 3000 miles away. It's probably easier to catch the demonstrators attention if you're talking directly to him over a video/audio link, rather than to have to shout out from the crowd in a demo, and may not be heard.
The other issue to consider is that for some clubs, remote live demos may be the only affordable way to get demonstrators to their club - I believe this comment was made by a club events organiser on another thread on this topic.
In case you have missed it, this is the link to Alan Zenreich's rotation on this topic -it shows what can be done with the new technology - even if it is just your smartphone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnxKFbc0tnk
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You have said on a number of occasions over the years David that this would be a cheaper option for clubs.
Regards George
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David,
I did make comments on the other thread that you started on this subject and I have asked members of our Club as to their opinions. some of the comments were I might as well stay at home and watch a video or you tube. I also was told part of the Demonstration was the meeting of the Demonstrator and looking at his work as most Demonstrators bring along a good selection of their work also the handling of the pieces one can often see quite a lot of how the piece were turned by just looking closely at the piece also 99% of demonstrators like the interaction with members and will share their method with members also at our Club we prefer to choose who we want to watch not the choice of some one else.
I wish you every success in your venture but it is not for us.
Regards John
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John,
Yes, I think the part about looking at the demonstrators work is something that will have to be overcome by any turners (be they UK, USA or elsewhere) doing remote live demos and I know my club members feel the same as yours on this point.
I don't understand the last part of your reply as our Events Organiser decided to set this up having seen the trial demo - I merely made the committee aware of this opportunity. We too do like to decide whom we invite along to demonstrate and this use of technology expands our list of potential demonstrators. If you have a good active group of members that suggest names for demonstrators, then that's great - we have trouble getting our members to suggest names so it's up to the Events Organiser to put the program together!
Anyway, it's good that your club and members thought about the project and discussed it. Thanks.
David
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To answer George's point about costs: yes, it is cheaper for clubs in regard to not having to pay travelling costs, accommodation etc. How much cheaper or if at all, depends on the fee charged for the demo.
It is also beneficial to the demonstrator as there is no travelling time, hotel stays so that time can be spent productively in the workshop.
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APH - Handing around can be done but we don't have the facility to do so for this particular event.
I assume you'd expect to do that by having items posted to you prior to the event and then returning them afterwards ?
If so, it sounds an added burden on the demonstrator to pack and send items and an extra expense especially for international demonstrators, but also a lot less flexible than just having something of interest eg a particular tool passed around.
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At our club (South Downs Woodturners) we have a mix of evenings throughout the year as I'm sure you all do. We have club members' demo's, professional turners, two lathes at a time evenings, open lathes where anyone can have a go etc. As an I.T Manager I use this kind of technology all the time and see its benefits, however I wouldn't want to see it take over from 'Live' demos completely but would fully welcome it once or twice a year as an alternative evening, especially if it meant we could see and interact with turners from around the world that we would otherwise not have access to. Good luck in your venture.
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Quote from APH:
"I assume you'd expect to do that by having items posted to you prior to the event and then returning them afterwards ?
If so, it sounds an added burden on the demonstrator to pack and send items and an extra expense especially for international demonstrators, but also a lot less flexible than just having something of interest eg a particular tool passed around."
I had to check this out and have found that yes, some clubs do get materials, tools and finished pieces shipped to them ahead of a remote demo and others don't. It is an extra burden on the demonstrator to sort and pack the goods into a box and send them off, rather than put them on their van. USPS offer a good flat rate service within the US but it would not be viable for international demos.
Most clubs, including mine, appreciate the ability to closely inspect a particular tool or piece of work for themselves. How we achieve this with remote live demos I guess has yet to be resolved. Something any UK turner venturing into this field should consider perhaps?
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The demonstration will be Hollowing Techniques,
Lyle intends to cover the following points during his demonstration:
1. Starting the blank 2. Chucking methods 3. Lathe speed preferences 4. Vibration issues 5. Outside shape development 6. Grain orientation issues 7. Captured boring bar techniques 8. Carbide cutter hollowing 9. Laser measuring techniques 10. Reverse mounting for bottom treatments.
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This is just to let you know tickets are selling fast for this event and we would not want anyone to miss out on this opportunity.
The benefits of video conferencing over the cloud are that we get real time interaction with the demonstrator - just as if he were in the hall in front of you.
Beats YouTube and Facebook Live hands down!
The benefits to the demonstrator are (actual case): A couple of hours preparation time and wondering what kit he will face at the venue. Pack car .180 miles drive to venue. Unpack car. Do demo. Pack up again. Drive 180 miles back home. Arrive in the small hours. Next day bank small fee for being out of workshop for about 12 hours. Could have spent 3 hours in own workshop for same fee and no stress.
Details of how to purchase tickets can be found elsewhere in this thread.