AWGB Woodturning Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: seventhdevil on January 13, 2017, 04:44:15 PM
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hi all, i'd like to know the easiest way to melt and cast lead without spending hundreds if possible.
needs to be cast as a cylinder at about 40mm by 150mm long.
any tips on making a mould???
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The principle should be the same as pewter but there are safety aspects to take care of. I wouldn't melt it indoors for example and make sure you have some kind of breathing protection when turning. Mould could be dry wood. Not a job I would personally do however.
Pete
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I do a bit of lead welding as a builder, it'll melt quite quickly with a blowtorch, I'd melt some in an old saucepan with a blowtorch outside then pour into a mould, could use a very dry piece of wood (or the moisture will vaporise and spit molten lead at you) bored out to few mill oversize and length, the wood will burn to a degree, and could be sunk into a bucket of sand for stability and to work as a heat sink. Once cooled split off the wood.
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I've done it a few times to make some counterweights for out of balance turning and weights for embedding into boomerangs (to get a longer range).
My first attempt was to plane one surface of a block of wood, cut the block in half and place the planed faces together. Clamp together and drill a hole for pouring in the lead. If you were doing it regularly you could hold the blocks together with bolts.
For the counterweights I used a forstner bit to drill maybe a 40mm hole 15mm deep.
Use dry wood so the molten lead doesn't cause steam.
For melting I used a old aluminium pan into which I hammered a spout for easier pouring. Heated on the gas stove in the kitchen with extractor running, window open and wearing a fume mask. Wear gloves, long sleeves and glasses.
The lead may shrink slightly on cooling and should some out of the wood quite easily.
Originally I used old lead flashing from my dad but it's a pain removing all the dirt which floats to the top so I started buying fishing weights from GoOutdoors and melting them. You can probably get the lead cheaper but they were close to hand
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I would scrounge a length of 40mm copper or gas pipe from a plumber, pipe fitter, boatyard, engineering shop, skip or scrapyard or similar or if all else fails try ebay.
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i thought wood would be too easy to burn for a mould but i will try it with a bit of ekki i think and see how it goes. i should point out that it will not be turned so no mask needed but i will be very cautious if i melt some.
i might try a pan first, anyone know what a hob could get up to???
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Enough to melt lead. Pewter is higher and melts on the hob of a cooker.
Pete
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i thought lead was higher at about 327c, internet say pewter is 170-220c depending on composition.
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i thought lead was higher at about 327c, internet say pewter is 170-220c depending on composition.
My bad, got it the wrong way around ::)
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do you get any nasty smells from melting metal?
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I wouldn't do this indoors, the more ventilation the better. The fumes released from molten lead are quite nasty and you would be subject to the risk of lead poisoning.
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i ain't that stupid mate, this will definitely be done outside... ;D ;D ;D
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I have done quite a bit of lead casting, during the time when I built model boats (they have keels made from lead). A few tips:
- Use a something with a decent handle on it. This amount of lead will need a bit of time to melt, and the container will get very hot, so you want a long handle, ideally wood.
- I've used a single hot plate, works perfectly fine. This can be gas powered or electric, makes no difference.
- Now the mold: Do NOT try to use a wooden mold. It won't work,or if it does, you end up with all sorts of funny inclusions in your lead. I have had to experiment quite a bit before I got this right. The best material is fast setting concrete, the same stuff that is used by plumbers to fix pipes to walls.
- You want to make yourself a wooden template of the final shape of lead, and get the surface nice and clean, and finish it at least with sanding sealer, better with varnish.
- Then make yourself a container big enough to hold the mold. Suspend the template in it and fill the empty space with the concrete. Make sure you pour the concrete slowly, so there are no air bubbles in it.
- Let the concrete set. Now remove the template (you may have to provide a mechanism to split the mold, e.g. paper or thing cardboard between the halves).Then fire up the oven in your mother's kitchen and bake the mold at 200 degrees for about 12 hours. You need to drive all moisture out of it, complete and totally.
- Bring your lead to melting point. Skim off all rubbish that floats on the top. Heat up your mold to as high as you can get (the closer to the lead melting temperature, the better)
- Slowly pour it in. Now wait for it to cool and hey presto, you have your casting.
Most likely you'll need several attempts before you get it right. It's a bit of an art, and the exact procedure will depend on the material used for the mold. Good luck.
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some great advice mate, i know who to come to if i get stuck.
doubt i will bother skimming off as it is to be used as a weight hidden inside a wooden club completely concealed never to be seen.
interesting to know that a hotplate will work...
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Or a different approach - use lead shot instead of a solid lump. Mix it with resin or epoxy and pour it into the hole you want to fill. No heat, no trouble!
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I am just on the way out of the door but when I get back this afternoon I will find the short video clip of me casting pewter for the UKIWS seminar. On occasions I turn indian clubs for a customer and they are weighted with lead which I pour direct. I then bore a hole sideways through the club and pour a dowel tp ho;d it in place, there could be quite a bit of centrifugal force from these clubs being hurled about.
I use Maple, it does spit a bit but I pour when it has cooled down a bit. I also use all the PPE I can lay my hands on and I do it outside on my camping stove.
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At Dental colledge we used to cast lead/tin mix in plaster moulds,make the item in wax,,cast a plaster mould around it with suitable points for pouring in the the lead/tin mix in,let it set,boil out the wax with a kettle then wash with detergent,let the mould dry,then slowly heat the mould in an oven(so it doesn`t crack when you pour in the lead/tin mix,or lead in this case),while mould is heating/drying heat your lead/tin mix until moulten,when ready for pouring,sprinkle a little borax on the lead to clear the dross,and scoop off,then your ready to pour your lead/tin mix,lead in this case of course,pour very slowly or you will get a blow back which will mean a trip to A+E,then just leave to cool for a couple of hours.
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will this do for heating it???
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172485666781?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282305140307?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
or i could buy one of these?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252573816796?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191822137934?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
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I use this (http://www.henrykrank.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=164_181_509&products_id=1507) for pewter after seeing Paul Hannaby using it it a demo.
Pete
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Steve,
I used a hot plate the same as the links you put up, couple with a strong cast iron small saucepan for fishing weights etc. Works very well and is quick, as for a mould I made some boat mud weights using tin cans of the correct size, all worked very well.
Saucepan is surprisingly heavy when full so a ladle is another cheap essential.
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Any of the hotplates will do the heating trick, no problem, but you do want a sturdy container with a long handle (or two), and some leather gloves. However, since you mentioned this will be used as in inside weight, I really think that just casting pellets into an epoxy will be much easier and achieve the same purpose.
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it would be easier to use pellets but it also means that i need to have more volume to allow for the air between pellets and i'm not even sure where i would buy the pellets?
i actually fancy casting something as it involves me doing something stupid and potentially dangerous so i think i'll have a go at that first.
i intend to get a good ladle as i won't trust a handle with up to 5kg of 300+ degrees worth of molten metal. i'll see if i can find a good cast iron pot on ebay...
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Try google - http://www.theleadweightcompany.co.uk/lead-shot-ballast.html (http://www.theleadweightcompany.co.uk/lead-shot-ballast.html)
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cheers for the link paul.
not cheap is it...
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Why bother to cast it? if it is hidden why not use Lead Sheet and roll it into the shape you require [Lead Swiss Roll] no heat, no fumes and much safer.
Richard
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Like Fuzzyturns I use to make model boats and have cast some lead using very dry wooden moulds as they are one offs. I have also used the pellets in epoxy resin as well. When I have had to melt it I use an old cast iron pan with a wooded handle over a gas burner and like many done this outside wearing all of the PPE.
Some gun shops sell pellets whether they are still lead one you would need to enquire.
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Why bother to cast it? if it is hidden why not use Lead Sheet and roll it into the shape you require [Lead Swiss Roll] no heat, no fumes and much safer.
Richard
tried that already, took me half an hour just to do one so would waste too much time and it's not as easy as it sounds...
i need lots of these so will go down the route of making a reusable mould probably with a hinge for speed of extraction.
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You haven't said why you need to cast lead, what are you making?
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they are weights to add to indian clubs. currently i am making indian clubs from beech and they weigh 1.5kg but he wants 3kg ones the same size so i must use a lead weight to achieve the extra weight.
i did try to get him to change the shape and size slightly so that i could use a heavier timber to get the 3kg but he doesn't want to do that.
i'm making the ones labeled as hand turned on this webpage.
https://www.kettlebell-fit.com/uk-made-indian-clubs-meels/
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I had the contract to make these and manged to get the weight to within a few grams of each other. When I increased my prices to become a little more realistic looks like he came to you.
Good luck!