AWGB Woodturning Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: David Buskell on July 11, 2016, 02:52:56 PM
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Wouldn’t it be great if woodturning presenters could do their demonstrations from their own shops with their own tools, and have a live interactive audience participation in a faraway club/chapter location?
For those of you that participated in the experiment on live broadcasting we did a couple of years ago, this video gives some idea of how much technology has moved on since then.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnxKFbc0tnk
I only caught the tail end of Alan's presentation (clashed with the Moulthrops!) but spoke to him the next day. The video also includes some very valid points not only on demos but other matters we should consider.
Worth watching even if it is just over an hour long - the Special Interest Groups sessions only have one hour allocated to them on the Thursday evening.
I think we have a way to go before this takes off in the UK as not so many of our turners have the studio setup needed, nor indeed do clubs always have the wi-fi capabilities at their venue.
By the way, since preparing the demonstration, Alan tells me he has found a new system for broadcasting which will provide a better and more stable connection.
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Whilst I find the technology baffling and whilst I can see the advantages of not having to travel to a venue, with all the equipment that's needed for a demo, I really can't see it being a regular replacement for live demos. As a teacher with an honours degree in adult education, and as an audience member at dozens of demos, I for one would not enjoy the experience anything like as much as a live demo. My experience of remote tutoring through live-streamed demos/lessons is that it all feels a bit false and that it lacks one very essential factor....first hand, human interaction.
Les
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I know the Australians do something they call 'Open Workshops' where club members are invited to one members workshop for a look around, demonstration and coffee & chat. It seems to go well but apart from the next part of this posting I've never heard of it here in GB.
George Fowraker holds open days at his workshop several time a year for members of the Burnham-on-Sea club. They come and discuss problems and issues they are having, how to turn something, sharpening, finishing, all the normal problems we encounter whilst learning. Or just to pick the mind of George's vast wealth of knowledge.
These are great days. With no defined programme, it's interest led and the discussion changes as it moves through the day, as more people arrive and others leave, with their own individual issues.
Or am I wrong, do other clubs hold anything similar?
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Whilst i like the idea of the sort of thing George does and would happily do it myself if my workshop was big enough I am not sure of the broadcasting idea. I am a bit like Les in that I prefer the participation and so forth that goes on in a decent demo, from both sides of the lathe. Unlike Les I only have a Cert Ed in teaching so am not as qualified but for me there is no substitute for being able to ask and answer the question that arises at a moment I can see that it perhaps has a place for those that cannot get to demos for a reason however so wouldn't totally reject the idea.
Pete
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Although technology can enable a good quality transmission and reproduction, I think this method of broadcasting demonstrations will always be second best to a live demo. No doubt there are potential benefits from savings in travel and perhaps the ability to view turners from farther afield who can't or won't travel the distance needed but my preference would still be to see someone live.
If everyone adopted this method of delivery, it would make it very difficult to get new turners into the demo circuit because the initial investment and the understanding of the technology required might put them off.
You might also find that the one man demo turns into one man plus camera / sound man or men, all of who would no doubt want payment so eventually, it may end up no cheaper.
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David,
To me Participation participation participation is what makes Demonstrations interesting with all due respect I think this is pie in the sky you need some atmosphere you may call me a nerd or old fashioned but where would this end no seminar to attend no club night etc.
having seen some of the demos on line( I know it is not the same) they are dull.
Regards John
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I agree that a live demo is best, but we don't have to have one or the other. A mixture of both would work ok, being able to watch expert turners from any where in the world who might otherwise never be seen. For one who is not in a club a video demo is better then nothing at all. Malcolm.
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As a demonstrator I can see both sides. As an example let say I went to Cheam Woodturners this would be 274 mile each way from North Yorkshire at 35p per mile I would be looking at £192 for traveling expenses, and a 5 hour drive each way. I would travel back the next day so 2 days out of my workshop.
Would there be the interaction over a video link I not sure. I like to see the members and I know this would be possible via video. At half time a lot of members come and ask questions, would this happen on a video link. Most members want to see the TV screen and what the demonstrator is doing so would there miss the demonstrator in person.
One point is how many members would like to see the workshop of the demonstrator and ask about the equipment there have.
The club would save around £250 with the cost of accommodation as well. That's a lot over the year and would cover the cost of new equipment needed for a video demonstration.
Will I look into this type of demonstration, I think I will but I will have lots to think about.
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The other thing that would be missed is the interaction between the demonstrator and those attending before and after the demonstration. I know when I demo at a club there is always a small crowd around me before I start and at the end (when I am trying to pack up and get home) another crowd forms.
Each time as a demonstrator information is passed on but if it was via video link that would not happen. If you are having a demonstrator via video link why not just buy a video and sit and watch it?
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As a spectator of demo,s by anyone professional or not I certainly enjoy the live interaction. I also enjoy being able to talk to them during the breaks when time allows. To me watching over a link would be the same as buying a DVD and watching it at home.
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I agree with Derek and BHT,
Part of the enjoyment of seeing a demo is being able to talk to the person throughout the break and to ask questions, where possible, throughout the demonstration itself.
I agree I might as well just buy a dvd.
As an ex lecturer in photography I enjoyed the interaction with my students, I lecture now but on a totally different subject and would hate a non-responsive audience.
Dancie.
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Although I can understand the many voices here mentioning the direct interaction with the demonstrator during breaks and before and after the demo, I'd have to say that all of this is possible via internet link. As someone who works in IT, I have been exposed to powerful video conferencing systems (called tele-presence), and I can tell you these things are magic. There really is little difference to having the person in the room. The only thing you cannot do is touch him/her or smell him/her.
Don't get this the wrong way: I think the hesitations come from a number of corners:
a) not many wood turners are really comfortable with the level of IT skills required to make a demo via internet a success
b) The UK is a much smaller place than the US (or Australia or South Africa or even France or Spain). Travelling distances tend to be shorter, and therefore costs are lower, hence less incentive.
c) not many wood turners will have had a lot of experience in using video links. There is a huge difference between watching a DVD and participating in a video linked demo session.
I think this is the future, at least for a large proportion of demos, and those demonstrators who are not prepared to gear up for this, will miss out.
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Whilst i agree that the IT skills needed are a potential barrier they aren't the only ones. There is also the equipment needed, that is not cheap and in a dusty workshop could be a problem long term. Also how many turners have workshops thatare suitable to do this sort of thig in? I can see a place for it but personally hope it never becomes the norm, there is nothing to substitute for the personal face to face atmosphere at a decent demo.
pete
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The only thing you cannot do is touch him/her or smell him/her.
Fuzzyturns,
Do demo turners have a particular smell, is this something I should look out for? :D
Dancie
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I am pretty sure they all have their individual, personal smell. I do. 8) 8)
Joking aside: Most people are completely unaware of it, but smell is one of the most important factors determining whether you do or don't like a person.
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Most people are completely unaware of it, but smell is one of the most important factors determining whether you do or don't like a person.
So that's my problem LOL. Must change my deoderant
Pete
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I have only just noticed this thread and the last consideration seems to be the demonstrator. A lot of full time pro Turners rely on the income from demonstrating and it seems to me that all this is about is getting Demo's on the cheap.
So the demonstrator invests in a load of film and camera equipment and somebody to work it all for less money it makes no sense to me.
You would have to have somebody skilled with the camera and who is going to pay him.
If you work out how little it is per member to have a live demonstrator it is probably the price of two pints of beer or a pack of fags for an evenings entertainment.
We are a small club and by using in house demonstrators we can easily afford top demonstrators If we can do it I am sure other clubs can.
Have a look at our Website and see the quality of demonstrators we get and we still have money in the bank.
We have never received or asked for grants or hand outs we have paid for everything ourselves.
Including full membership to the AWGB our members if they attend every evening throughout the year the cost to them is less than £70 00
http://www.burnham-on-sea-wtc.co.uk/events.html
Regards George
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George, you have summed up the situation perfectly.
I am in the same situation, a professional turner teaching and doing demonstrations, as well as a club secretary, so see both sides of the 'costs' argument. What other form of entertainment can be got so cheaply!
And I agree with several other posters that the interaction with an 'on site' demonstrator cannot be beaten. You need to ask questions AND get the answers, as and when they occur, and, although it is technically possible, I don't think it practical to use the internet for that purpose, for a host of reasons.
I will throw in one more thing to consider. If we go this way, there is no need for clubs to meet and you lose all the social side. Woodturning can be a 'lonely' hobby in so far as you don't need a team of people to take part, so clubs provide that interaction with other people that keeps us all sane.
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Will it be like a table full of teenagers sitting down for a meal and texting each other rather than talk to each other.
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Where is David Buskell ??? I have seen David start these sort of threads before then never answer the comments made I must and agree the
ones from GBF , Derek & Derwent Club hit the Nail on the Head.
Regards John
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He has been whining about the cost of Demonstrations and this sort of nonsense for over ten years
Regards George
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This thread seems to have been taken over by demonstrators who feel their livelihood is at risk. Nowhere in the original post does it mention cheaper demonstrations; I read the main benefits a being watching and interaction with a pro in his / her own workshop using their own equipment which is probably not transportable. Pros who want to offer tssi option can cost in their investment and let the customer (ie the club) decide if they are worth it or not, just like we do now. I for one would welcome the prospect of watching someone from the other end of the country (maybe an Aussie or an American?) live on camera and talk directly with them. A replacement for our "normal" demos? Of course not, nor was that ever suggested; a useful addition worth thinking about? Yes, definitely and my guess is it will certainly happen sooner or later, whether some established demonstrators like it or not.
Bad mouthing the original poster doesn't help; I've never met the guy but his suggestion seemed a fair one, politely phrased. Accusing him of whinging on an open forum like this is just plain bad manners. No wonder people hesitate to post here.
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I agree whole-heartedly with George about the cost of attending demos. My club (Mid Wales Woodturners) is, I'm sure, similar to many clubs across the UK. We meet on Sundays and the demos last from 11:00 and run through until 5:00. Our fee on the door is £9 per day, so that's a meager £1.50 per hour and we have top demonstrators, both from within the UK and occasionally from overseas. I don't know much about George's club at Burnham, but from the info that I've gleaned about it on this forum, it seems to be a well attended, lively club with regular demos. Their club, like ours and like many others, I suspect, would suffer at the implementation of video-link demos. I really can't see many of our members being happy to pay £9 to sit and watch a monitor!
Come on David Buskell....you invited our input on this, let's hear what you have to say about it.
Les
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For your information Phil I do not do Demonstrations as for bad mouthing it is exactly as I said he has been moaning about the cost of Demonstrating for years.
Regards George
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David Buskell was logged on for about an hour until about ten minutes ago and did not reply. Those of us who have been around for a while have seen it all before
Regards George
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Good evening everyone. Some interesting comments raised on this thread and some answers have been asked for.
Sorry the response wasn't quick enough for you George but a neighbour popped round with a query that affects both our houses whilst I was almost at the end of typing this lot!
I can't give you answers but I can give you my thoughts on the thread and the comments made.
Derek thinks this would be like a bunch of teenagers sitting around texting. The problem with the systems used in the experiment some years ago was that it did not allow for interaction. Technology has moved on and this issue has probably been resolved. Certainly the 4 or 5 of us that hooked into the live demo were able to interact with the demonstrator but it was slow and cumbersome, with the resulting time delays.
Derwent say they like the personal interaction with the demonstrator - I totally agree with that. The set-up that Alan Zenreich is demonstrating gives the facility for instant Q/A which is why one of the key components at the club end is a roving mike.
As for GBF.s comments, well, this new technology would allow clubs to extend their range of demonstrators with the only saving being the mileage charges. If we wanted to bring a turner down from say Yorkshire for a demo, we face 500 miles at 40p a mile on top of the demo fee. New technology saves the mileage fee and clubs can plough that back into....... booking more demonstrators! Which gives more interest and hopefully more growth in club membership.
It is true that there are more turners in the US that have good video facilities in their shops but there are also some closer to hand, let's say Ireland for example, who also have good video setup. I would expect the demonstrator to charge the usual rate for the demo but as said above, the saving to the club is mileage. The saving to the demonstrator is preparation and travel.
Live video demos are but one of the ways we can receive demos, providing of course we have a good internet connection. I guess like all these ideas, seeing a live video demo and participating in the instant discussion, will provide proof (or not) if this is a viable addition to the event organisers armoury.
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Thank you for the answer David.
Do you agree that to make this work you would need a camera man as well as a Demonstrator or would you expect the demonstrator to keep adjusting the camera.
Would this not cancel out the mileage savings if you had to add in the cost of a camera man
Regards George
Bugger he has gone again
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When you look at it, a demo over the internet could be similar to a "live" demo. At the club we have a camera set up and an image projecting onto the screen, most people watch the screen, the only difference is the demonstrator is in the same room.
Dave Buskell hit the nail on the head about having a reliable internet connection, sadly in this country at the moment we cannot guarantee that. So the question is then asked.....what happens if the demonstrator is booked and starts to demonstrate and the feed goes down? Will a question of liability then rear its ugly head? If I am booked to demo at the moment and I don't turn up that is my fault, if you pay to see a demo and the feed goes down whose fault is it then? Also, if you demonstrate over the internet to more than one club you could double or triple your fees, which is a good thing until one of the clubs has a problem with their equipment. The demonstrator cannot stop and wait for the problem to be sorted as other people are waiting.
I feel this is a debate that will continue for a long time to come.
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What about needing a camera man?
Regards George
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A few points on various people's comments -
David Buskell - The demonstrator wouldn't really save anything on preparation time and what they saved on not having to pack their tools etc. would be taken up with setting up the AV equipment. Cost savings on mileage by the demonstrator would be offset by AV costs so the club wouldn't necessarily save as much as predicted.
John Aitken - Reliable network connections are readily available - at a price!
I don't think peoples views or the capabilities of the technology have changed since last time the same subject was brought up on here!
I know there are some professionals working on pre-recorded demonstrations that clubs can purchase to screen at meetings (along with protection to prevent the copies being circulated). I suspect these will overtake live broadcasting because the ability to edit and re-use the same footage will be of greater benefit to the demonstrator in terms of time and cost.
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Re: camera man: I suppose the question is how far do you want to take it. There are certainly things that could be done with a separate camera man that would add value, but if I recall the demos at our club (same as phil stevenson) most people watch the screen (more detail, bigger picture) with the camera not moving around too much. I guess in the end there will be some demonstrators who will hire a hand for the day (or evening), possibly their partners, and if they get it right, this might be worth a little extra.
I think the real benefit is in being able to see demos from places that would otherwise be inaccessible due to excessive travel costs.
BTW, there are lots of companies offering webinars on a similar basis: the teacher/presenter is available, with 2-way-communication, via the internet, and you can connect to that session (after paying your fee). Connection breakdown is actually easy to handle: if the connection breaks on the demonstrator's side, he is liable. If it breaks at the spectator's side, it's their problem. Provides an incentive to get a decent connection.
I don't see this completely replacing traditional demos, but it would certainly open up possibilities that otherwise are just not there.
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I think there is room for it if it is physically impossible to get to watch the person. IE a turner from abroad that you would love to watch. Other than that it would be like watching the Grand Prix on tele, diluted and lacking a lot.
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Reference the comment from Phiistevenson I have been a Secretary of a woodturning Club for many years also Events Secretary I like to think I do know something about what woodturning club members want to see on club evenings Phil if you are a member of a club what do you like to see? at your club meetings. One other point I am not a Demonstrator but I do not mind paying for the excellent demonstrators we have had the pleasure of hosting. As for bad Mouthing on this thread I have not seen this some people opinions may be stronger than others.
I cannot imagine anything more boring than watching a live stream of a demonstration at club night many of the comments have come from people with a great deal of experience having said that could David give us an estimated cost of this system it would be interesting I look forward to your comments.
Regards John
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The idea of the project from Mr Zenreich is that it is a live video demo therefore no camera man. Those who watched the video presentation will see that the multi screen and camera technology is operated by the demonstrator.
Costs? Vary I guess depending in how far high a spec you go to.Lowest is a new iPhone higher is the sky,s the limit.
If you hold on for a while, the man who can answer all your questions may become a forum member.
By the way it was interesting watching the video again last night.nthe comments re microphone for interaction come In at about 36mins. The q and a session answered a lot of queries.
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John I have been a club (and AWGB) member for 25 years+, including quite a number as a committee member so like you, I too think I have some experience of what members enjoy. Please read my earlier post carefully - I am all for "traditional" demo days but I also see a place for different ways of experiencing demonstrators' skills; that might include large or intricate turning on specialised equipment not available via carry-in equipment. I am not for "cheap" alternatives, I am all for positively considering modern, interactive transmission techniques - they may well cost more, who knows? I am not about to itemise the agenda of a professional demonstrator's first live remote video feed, I am reacting positively to the concept. As for my other comments, I did not use the words foul mouth, so you might want to consider retracting that accusation, I said bad mouthing. I think I also referred to the comment in question; again, please reread my post.
Unfortunately this thread has gone a bit sour in places and if I have been part of that I'm sorry but I really don't understand why floating a new concept to further the demonstration of our favourite hobby has attracted so many torpedoes without recognising the potential benefits.
That's all I have to say on this thread, it's taken more of my time than it merits.
Over and out.
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Just taken a minute to review some comments made.
Fuzzy turns is right. Live video is used elsewhere. It,s just Woodturning lags behind in using the format.
Paul Hannaby mentions video set up costs.I agree that this is a factor and most turners do not have such a set up already. However the rise of the trio involved with UKIWS shows there are turners out there with such a set up and who attract a significant audience.
Paul also mentions pre recorded video.This must be the worst option as there would be no live feel or interaction, like Mark Sanger says,it would be diluted and lacking a lot.
It will be interesting to see who is the first club to try this out in the uk. It won't be Cheam as we don't have any internet unless we use an alternative venue.
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Phil I have retracted the word Foul and replaced it with Bad I am sorry you think this thread has taken more of your time than it merits well
so be it that is your decision we can all have different opinions and I do respect yours and everyone else's I do hope you read this I expect
no further comments from you on this thread and I look forward to seeing your next postings.
Regards John :-X :-X
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Looking at this with an open mind I suppose if you wanted to watch somebody that was not available in another country maybe. I still cannot see how the turner could be the camera man as well .Unless you keep re positioning the camera zooming in and out I think it would be very disruptive with the turner having to stop turning to carry out camera work
Regards George
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I am all for "traditional" demo days but I also see a place for different ways of experiencing demonstrators' skills; that might include large or intricate turning on specialised equipment not available via carry-in equipment.
As a spectator at the club level I like to see live demo's and on equipment that the average turner owns, as I see that the idea is to learn new techniques from the demonstrator and not have to go out to buy X or Y just to be able to complete a new area of turning.
All the demonstrators that have visited our club have shown us techniques that can be replicated with tools that the average turner owns.
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This technology is new to the woodturning world but has been use in other areas for a long time.
This would allow clubs to have a live demo via video by a turner who would to expensive to attend the club, I was on the committee of my local club for years and we always looked at the cost, some turners we wanted at the club but we had to say no because of the cost.
Would I be happy to go to the club and see a live demo via a video link by a turner, yes I would if it was the only way to see that person. Its live so if a mistake is made it will be seen, no editing or retakes not like a video being played where mistakes can be removed. Yes I would rather see the demonstrator in person and at the club.
As a demonstrator would I rather go to a club to demonstrate yes I would, but I know a time will come when a club will ask me if I can demonstrate via a live video link. Would I consider this yes I may in time.
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Not being technically minded as far as video equipment and the internet are concerned but I can see a day when there is a system in place, a demonstrator in front of a camera, as happens all over the country at th moment, but possibly with the club (by some means) able to control the cameras. It works with CCTV in town centres so I can see it working over a longer distance.
There would have to be a system where the demonstrator knows when a question has been asked, in my case I am as deaf as a deaf woodturner can be and more so when the lathe is running and I am in mid cut. So that would have to be addressed. Perhaps a demonstrator would be demoing at one club and the club was then responsible for broadcasting it. That could work. But the question of keeping a copy then raises itself again.
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Had a great live video demo from Suffolk to SE London earlier this week. All went well except for the audio on my Skype. Got that sorted and then all was good. Excellent audio, two camera views and stable connection.
Skype also played up this morning on another call to Wales - must upgrade!
If anyone is interested in a 1-2-1 mentoring/advice/chat session over video link or is a demonstrator who wants to try live video demos but doesn't have the studio set-up, pm me and I'll put you in touch with the facility concerned.
David
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Greetings all, nice to finally be here.
If anyone has questions about my video, or about remote demonstrations, I am happy to chime in.
I am mentoring a few woodturners on doing these types of presentations, and it's been a great experience.
So, if any of you are considering it, feel free to contact me and perhaps I can help get you up and running quickly.
The more demonstrators and clubs that are set up to do and receive these types of program, the better it is for us all.
Regards,
Alan Z.
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Alan,
I notice this is your first post so straight off, welcome to the Forum.
You open your post with
If anyone has questions about my video, or about remote demonstrations, I am happy to chime in.
so is there any chance of a link to this video for us to view please?
Bryan
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Bryan,
Thanks for the welcome!
The link to the video was in the first message of this discussion thread.
David Buskell was discussing the presentation I gave at the AAW Symposium in Atlanta... about remote presentations.
The video is on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnxKFbc0tnk
and on the AAW Vimeo channel https://vimeo.com/173931450
I have a resource sheet that lists the equipment and software here: http://www.zenreich.com/xfer/rethinking_demo_resources.pdf
I am happy to answer any questions, and perhaps do some one-on-one mentoring for demonstrators and clubs (I've been doing this quite a bit recently, helping folks get up to speed quickly)
Regards,
Alan Z.
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Interesting topic, apart from a lack of IT knowledge. There will be a cost factor, although many clubs in Australia have fairly sophisticated set up to convey the demo to the back of the room so to peak. As the well known demonstrators will command a decent crown 75-100 where facilities allow.
Distance is not usually an issue its just a part of life of living here In Australia and we accept that. I.e I drove to Sydney to Emerald in Queensland to pick up some exotic timber and back 3000k round trip one way is 16hrs nonstop. A bit far but acceptable considering what I was after.
We do have what we call GTG's meeting in various locations, often its the same workshop as not everybody is open to sponsoring this sort of event or have the facilities. They are a very laid back affair with some serious turning thrown in its not usual for a well known turner to come along if they live local.
One of the downsides of doing remote is the personal contact . The eye contact and the general camaraderie of the event adds much to the value for the individual. Plus during the various breaks everybody can and does mingle, chat etc , many solid friendships have been developed at these times and ensures the demonstrator a good response and time if they return.
We are all human and if a good time was had by all then all will return should the occasion arise again in the future. I the idea of remote viewing is a good thing and it has a part to play in this craft.
But I doubt if it will supersede the personal demonstration of a well known and respected turner, as in these meeting there is teaching and also imparting that takes place.
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I agree that the break time chat and camaraderie would be missed but this is a good way to see those turners you might not get to see otherwise.
It is a new way of bringing demos to clubs so there will be a few things to iron out but the tests done so far here in the UK have had good results. I'm sure AlanZ will comment on longer distance events as I know there have been some.
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As the AWGB is the main body for wood turning in the UK would it be possible for them to acquire and lend out or rent the equipment to demonstrators willing to carry out transmissions from there own workshops
Also put it on their web site showing demonstrators willing to carry out transmissions from their workshop
This would open up demonstrating to clubs like the one I am a member of that is based in the North of Scotland
If we were to ask a demonstrator to come from say Yorkshire that is a round trip of 780mls
From Somerset 1030mls round trip
For a one day demo that would include two nights stay over
I can see the point where clubs in the southern half of the UK are not to keen on the idea but there are clubs in other parts that cannot afford to take demonstrators to their clubs due to the travel and overnight expense
This is only an idea I had
David
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I will be trying out a system this winter when I have some spare time. This may be at my home workshop as I have fibre broadband here, my main workshop has only 1.5mb broadband.
David Ross do you have broadband at your club. All you would need is a projector and screen and a video recorder to focus on your member who would ask questions. At my end I would need more equipment to transmit the views form different angles.
I can see even in this country it is worth a go.
Philip
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Philip,
Good to see someone willing to try this out - it does work, based on the experiments we have performed already.
Please add Cheam Woodturners to your list of possible clubs to remote demo to. We are trying to get our broadband access sorted so we can take advantage of the new ways.
Alan Z will give you all the advice on equipment you need, both in your shop and at the venue.
David
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I will be trying out a system this winter when I have some spare time. This may be at my home workshop as I have fibre broadband here, my main workshop has only 1.5mb broadband.
David Ross do you have broadband at your club. All you would need is a projector and screen and a video recorder to focus on your member who would ask questions. At my end I would need more equipment to transmit the views form different angles.
I can see even in this country it is worth a go.
Philip
Hi Philip At present we do not have broadband at our club but at the next committee meeting I am hoping to get approval to have it installed
I am also hoping to get in contact with Alan Z
David
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David R.,
I replied to your email the other day... Did you get it?
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I appreciate that moving with the times is a must. I can also see that those problems that occur can probably be overcome (we are woodturners afterall)
One of the problems I would have in my workshop is the lack of distance that I would have between the lathe and the camera. And I know a comment will come back about moving my lathe but realistically that is not an option.
I suppose eventually, when all the teething problems have been sorted, half a dozen clubs would book an online live demonstration that would allow the demonstrator to hire a more suitable "studio".
Once enough clubs get broadband sorted out there could be more inter-club interaction now surely that has to be a good thing?
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I don't understand what you mean about the lack of distance between the lathe and the camera. In my (very small) shop, all cameras are within arm's reach, so I can reposition them easily. Did you view the video at the beginning of the message thread?
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"Once enough clubs get broadband sorted out there could be more inter-club interaction now surely that has to be a good thing?"
Good idea, BHT, I hadn't thought of that angle. We can do conference calls via Skype so that would be one way we can link the clubs.
We're still working on broadband access at Cheam.
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I don't understand what you mean about the lack of distance between the lathe and the camera. In my (very small) shop, all cameras are within arm's reach, so I can reposition them easily. Did you view the video at the beginning of the message thread?
Alan basically I cannot get the other side of my lathe to look through the camera to set it up, I know there are ways and means around it but just have a look at the picture of my workshop in last monthe woodturning magazine, you will see that I have to face the wall when turning and there is nowhere to put a camera. Not sure if the focal length of the lenses in use today will cope with it either.
Dave the other thing that could develop is woodturning organisations like the AWGB or RPT for instance paying for a demonstrator and then getting multiple clubs to subscribe to the demo, thereby covering the demonstrator's costs and possibly making a small profit on the side.
Actually this could be the answer to the cost of having demonstrators at a club, half a dozen clubs "chip in" cover the demonstrator's fees and any incurred expenses and it would work out cheaper per head>
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TBHT,
All of my cameras are reachable from my side of the lathe.
Remember that most of the cameras I use are webcams, so I am viewing them on a computer mounted above the lathe, no need to get 'behind' the camera.
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I use two different types of webcams, one has a 78 degree angle of view, and one has a 90 degree angle of view... both are pretty wide.
They focus to about 2 inches... so these are very flexible in close quarters.
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Just seen this in the AAW Journal in case anyone is interested in booking a live remote demo.
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Lyle is quite enthusiastic about doing more remote demonstrations. He feels he can do a better demonstration from his shop than he can at a typical club venue. Also, it's nice to see a turner in his/her own shop environment... there is much to learn by just looking around the setup.
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Alan, we are exploring the possibilities. Just checking we have the kit and will then sort out the best location to use. Have also had a Skype chat with Lyle to discuss what he would demonstrate.
Watch this space!
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as a new demonstrator to the group I find it good to have a audience in front of me. it is part of the demo. our club also record the demo and any one that gets there late or cannot make it can borrow the dvd and watch it at home.
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Wider,
It's worth noting that in remote demonstrations, the presenter can see and hear the audience... it's a two way video call.
Also, when one is new to demonstrations, reviewing video recordings of practice sessions can be very useful in fine tuning the material and presentation.
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DJ,
I don't know if my private messages have been getting through to you. I don't see anything in my Sent folder, so I just want to make sure you know that I had replied to your earlier messages.
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Hi Alan
Have tried to contact you a couple of times within last 24 hours
David
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David, it looks like the private messaging is finally working for us, take a look please.
Also, if anyone else is interested in getting their club set up to receive remote demonstrations, drop me a note and we can chat about the options.
Thanks,
Alan Z.
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It's been a while since I posted on this topic. We had to find a new venue which had all the AV kit we needed as our normal venue has wifi, but we cannot access it.
We had a trial run a couple of days ago at our new venue and it was good for me and my Events Organiser to see Lyle Jamieson live from Michigan. The test worked well with video and sound OK from Michigan and likewise back to Lyle from Epsom, Surrey. Using the Zoom system we got a good quality connection.
The kit in place in the UK is computer, large screen, projector, roving vid cam and wireless mike. Lyle can see and hear who will be asking questions during the demo!
Lyle's 3 camera set up allows for every possible angle to be coveed and the overhead camera is superb! Even our IT colleagues at the venue commented on the quality.
The demo is set for 12th April 2017 and the topic will be the hollowing process. We will need to ticket this event as we have limited accomodation.
The attached picture was taken on my mobile.
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David,
I'm glad that things are progressing nicely. Lyle has embraced the remote demonstrations, and it's been fun mentoring him so he's more comfortable with the technology.
A few days ago, Lauren and I did a 2.5 hour jewelry turning demo from our home in New Jersey to the Maui Woodturners' group in Hawaii, a mere 4,900 miles from here. Two demonstrators in two different floors of our home makes for some interesting technical challenges, and it all worked out fine. With picture in picture, the audience could see what both I and Lauren were doing at any given time. Cool toys!
So far, the feedback I've been getting about the remote demos that have been taking place has been very good, and I look forward to hearing your experiences.
Of course... if you want an 'eccentric' jewelry demo for your group, you know where to find me.
Happy holidays, one and all.
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Just posted this elsewhere on this Forum:
Cheam Woodturners are pleased to announce that Lyle Jamieson will be doing a live remote demo from his studio in Michigan to the UK on Wednesday April 12th.
The demo will commence around 3pm and continue for approximately two hours.
The venue for this event will be Epsom College, College Road, Surrey, KT17 4JQ and tickets are available on a first come-first served basis.
For more details or to enquire about tickets, please PM me.
This is probably the first remote live demo booked by a UK woodturning club so why not come along and experience the meeting of woodturning and new technology. The attached article gives some background information but do also see the article in WT issue 302.
“Interactive Remote Demos using live video” article used by kind permission of the AAW and American Woodturner.