AWGB Woodturning Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Katchin on February 01, 2011, 12:55:56 AM
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Hi, I have been thinking of starting woodturning for a few years now, but have never got to it. I'm on a limited budget, so would prefer to go at this full steam if I go for it, that means I wouldn't want to buy very basic equipment only to have to upgrade when I got better / braver.
My experience is zero basically, apart from being a dab hand with a chainsaw! (ex forestry).
So with these things in mind, any ideas on what sort of cash i'd have to spend? As far as tools I already have, not much, just the standard tools you would expect to find in a house, and a chainsaw! My mother should be able to provide me with lots of wood to make blanks from (beech, pines).
I would also hope to eventually recoup some of the cash from a few sales if I get good enough (don't expect to earn a living, just would be nice to have a hobby that doesn't eat through all my spare cash), is this a viable thought? or an unlikely one.
Thanks in advance.
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Hello Katchin,
welcome to the forum.
Firstly, woodturning can be a self supporting hobby if you get to the point where people are willing to pay for your output. So far so good.
As for what you might expect to spend! The biggest outlay will be for a lathe and tools. It's often said that the third lathe you buy is the one you keep. This is because people tend to buy cheap lathes in case they don't like turning, and when they do find they like it they upgrade. So the question of which to buy is a difficult one.
You could find something like an Axminster M330 on eBay and expect to pay around £100-150 for one. Good lathe but limited in size if you want to turn, for instance, bowls over 8" diameter. But more than suitable for your learning curve and you can always sell it on later. Then you'll need a chuck. A K10 will be about another £100 second hand. A set of basic tools, spindle roughing gouge, spindle gouge, parting tool, skew chisel and small bowl gouge, maybe anything from £60 - 120 for a basic starter kit in HSS.
A suitable bench grinder to keep them sharp, £40 for a Record 8" model.
A book to show you a few things £15...Keith Rowley's is a good start.
Safety equipment...visor or safety glasses, a good quality dust mask to start with perhaps £30 for the lot.
But most important is learning how to use the lathe and tools safely so maybe some tuition...£90 to £200 a day depending who you go to. Or you could join a club and you are bound to find somebody there who will show you the ropes.
So not cheap but you can always sell it all if you decide it's not for you.
And if you can produce blanks and sell them there is a good market for wood blanks so you may find you can pay for it all by selling them.
Good luck, and i hope you get bitten by the bug.
Andy
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Hi Katchin,
I agree with everything Andy has said but I would advise joining a club before you buy any kit as most club members know someone with a bit of kit to sell. The fact that you have a chainsaw and know how to use it safely
you will automatically make friends quickly! ;D
Hope this helps
Regards
BHT
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Hi Katchin
Great advice from Andy and BHT. If you let us know where you are there may well be people on the forum who be'd prepared to meet up and get you started.
On the AWGB website we have a page with all the Affiliated Branches and Associated Clubs, plus a list of people who provide tuition.
Enjoy the new hobby.
Cheers Dave
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Hi Katchin
Good to see a would be turner. I would say join a club or get help from a member who has a good fedback for learning others, better to start with the right way then learn bad habits.
If you look at woodturners supplies shop don't buy there and then, go home and think. i know there are some very good woodturners tools shops around who will sell what you need, but other who will try to sell you more then you need, don't get me wrong there want to make a living.
I would Say this is a start
Lathe.
6 Tools.
Chuck.
Grinder.
Tool sharpening jig, this will save you money in the long run.
Safety specs.
Dust mask.
And wood.
A course would save you time and money, i would take a course first to try before you buy.
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Thanks for all the advice. As I live in Lancaster, I will be attending the red rose woodturning club from this month onwards, they also hold monthly workshop mornings which will be very useful.
I do have a dust question though, as I am wondering where I would setup in my house, I do have a solid out house in my yard, but thats a little narrow but well ventilated/cold. My other option would be a large, but badly ventilated cellar. So I guess i'm wondering which to go for?
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What area you use you will still need to consider your health, dust is the number one problem with turning.
You have a choice
1 dust mask
2 Respirator
3 Drum extractor, bag one are useless as a rule
4 Air filter
I use 2 3 and 4 how much you turn will deepen on your choice, but you cant go out and buy new Lungs.
Respirator offer full protection providing you don't take it off until you leave the workshop, many remove the respirator after there stop turning and sanding, but the dust will still be in the air for hours.
Here is a link to help you with which wood to be carefully with.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis30.pdf
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis1.pdf
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis14.pdf
Don't be put off turning if you look at the links, but to often people don't bother until there health becomes a problem.
Phil
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Ok, so after my first workshop with Red Rose Woodturning Group, I was very impressed, and will be going ahead and getting some gear.
What do you all think of these lathes?
Axminster AWVSL 1000 http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-awvsl1000-woodturning-lathe-prod780615/ (http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-awvsl1000-woodturning-lathe-prod780615/)
and
Record CL3-CAM http://www.recordpower.co.uk/index.php?section=product&seq=318&cat=147&sef=CL3%20LATHE,%205%20SPEED%20WITH%20CAM%20LOCK%20TOOLREST%20AND%20TAILSTOCK" (http://www.recordpower.co.uk/index.php?section=product&seq=318&cat=147&sef=CL3%20LATHE,%205%20SPEED%20WITH%20CAM%20LOCK%20TOOLREST%20AND%20TAILSTOCK")
Obviously i'm hoping to get them second hand and cheaper, with a few tools throw in hopefully.
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If it were me buying one of those two now, knowing what I now know, I'd buy Axminster. Flat cast beds are better than twin bars. I have nothing against Record, and my Father In Law has used the CL4 for many, many years without a problem, but for me the Axmminster wins hands down.
There are older versions of this lathe which are essentially the same machine, but you might have more luck finding one of these second hand thank the newer version.
I'm glad you're bitten by the bug that we all suffer from!
As for siting your workshop...
the cellar would be fine, but consider walking up and down with heavy logs and equipment. There's also the question of noise. Would your neighbours appreciate the rattle of hours of lathe use through the floor?
whatever you decide, turn safely and take a good look at the advice above.
Andy
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Hello, Katchin.
Let me throw in my thoughts, which support Andy's position.
I had a CL2 which became upgraded to a CL4 spec Record lathe for 10 years or more. Essentially there was no problem with it, provided that I recognised it's limitations.
Because of it's modular construction, it must be bolted down well in order for it to be sufficiently rigid and vibration free. It either needs a very heavy duty bench, or the Record stand made for the CL series can be used, but it must be bolted to the floor.
Spindle turning of any type that can be fitted between centres is within it's capabilities, providing that it is bolted down. Faceplate turning, bowls, platters etc. is ok up to a point, but as you tackle bigger diameter work, or hollow forms and vases which overhang the headstock somewhat, you need to be aware of the relatively small size of the 3/4 x 16 spindle thread. This is especially so if you try turning offcentre or out of balance pieces. One very well known Pro turner once told me how he managed to destroy the thread by turning too big a piece of wood on his, necessitating the purchase of a replacement spindle at @ £80.00 (then). You can turn such objects, but you have to work with a gentle touch to have a successful outcome.
I eventually gave up the struggle & upgraded to a lathe with more power and a solid lathe bed (Wivamac). The more power bit is optional, but it does speed things up by allowing you to take more aggressive cuts when you want. The weighty lathe with a solid bed is the real improvement.
In the Record range, look at the Maxi lathes, these are pretty solid & are good value.
In my view, you can't beat a relatively heavy and solidly built lathe, it works with you, & doesn't fight against you.
I hope this helps you in your decision,
Best wishes
Greg
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Hello Katchin
I would say the same regarding the Axminster its a good lathe, I have the Record CL4 but you do have problems if run at a hight speed or out of balance work.
I would not bolt down a lathe unless you placed some rubber matting under each corner, the reason why is if you bolt this direct to the floor and its uneven you will put stress on the lathe castings and could twist the bed, the rubbery will stop this unless the flow is very uneven, just see how much it woulds rock on the floor, then put a packing piece under until its firm the bolt through this packing and the rubber. but try without bolting down first.
Hope this helps
Philip
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Hi Katchin,
I echo the comments above. The chances are you will have the need to upgrade as you get more into turning so you also have to take into consideration the equipment you will be buying. It's easier (and cheaper)to upgrade if all your bits are already of a larger thread size. I have never turned on a Record lathe but from experience lathes with bed bars are less stable than those with a cast bed. I expect that your fellow club members have both types of lathe amongst their ranks so you may be able to try before you buy. I know that Record's after sales service is pretty good but in my opinion you can't beat Axminster.
Hope this is of some use.
Regards
John
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thanks all, i'll get the axminster, I may just buy new, assuming i dont see one on ebay soon.
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Hi Katchin, Well come to the forum and woodturning..
You've had some very sound advice to both the Lathes, I'd say also the Axminster range, mostly as it's the larger thread/#2 morse taper, which would make upgrading easier to a larger future Lathe.
Axminster ran a package deal on the 1000 a month or to ago, but no luck at the moment, but if you give them a call to order, who knows what they may put together, try for lathe and chuck, it may be the K10 only, but it takes all the jaw range, the pro would be the best one and the 1000 should carry the weight, I should hope so, as my wife wanted a lathe and as big fan of ebay bargains, found a 2006 M900 with pro-chuck and tools, I had to take off a few rough edges and dress the thread, so all fitted well and all works well, it just the case of vari-matic speed adjustment, shifting a lever to change speed, easier than a belt/pulley change, the tools how ever of the proform kit are a bit odd in profile and if new to turning would be hard work to use, my wife found this and I'd already had concern myself, as to just how well they worked, maybe the whole reason the lad sold up himself!!!
As said try ebay, if anything reasonable local to you, the M950 would be about the same as the 1000 and you could get other kit with it, just watch on what you spent, but as your going new see if they'll put a deal together, worth a try... ;D.
Regards. David
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Hi
Just to add i have just borough an Axminster K10 chuck, found this to be as good as any chuck i have had in the past. Good selection of jaws and better price then Record.
Philip
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Hi Philip, I liked the look of the K10 on the Axminster stand at Daventy last year, they said to have the K10 for the AWVSL Midi-lathe, (which I'd been looking at, as the wife had expressed an interest in turning herself, but their show price was dearer than from the shop) as the K10 takes all the 100m range of jaws, it's compact and light weight, but not in it's holding power, and cuts down on overhang.
They've since had a deal on K10 and I was going to get one to replacement the wife's super precision chuck which came with the M900 for that reason, I'd have her chuck and change the back plate to fit my Mystro, so I'd have 2 chucks... :).. the only thing that was wrong with that.. no not the wife.. there is a differance in the chuck key squares, with my 1996 model and the 2006... ???... so I'd not have just the one key for both.. but mess with 2 and not have the right one at the time, so it didn't come about.. ???... or was I looking at it wrong and it wouldn't have been a problem..
Regards. David
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ok, so axminster will not be getting anymore AWVSL1000 lathe's in until April at the earliest, so i'll have to look for something else at a similar price, maybe upto £350 ish, any suggestions? Are charnwood lathes any good, I was looking at http://www.poolewood.co.uk/acatalog/Charnwood_W813_Woodturning_Lathe.html (http://www.poolewood.co.uk/acatalog/Charnwood_W813_Woodturning_Lathe.html)
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Most of these lathes are essentially the same machine but re-badged for different brandnames. Sometimes you may find that the castings are cleaned up better on one brand as opposed to another, or, and this is not visually apparent, the bearings (for instance) may be of a lesser quality, or the switches Etc. But the machine is probably manufactured in the same Chinese factory and simply sprayed a different colour and fitted to a slightly altered spec. So...essentially not a bad machine I would imagine, and probably no different to the old Yellow (Perform brand) Axminster version which I once owned. It was a good machine within its natural limitations, and I used to destruction levels and never destroyed it. In fact, another turner still uses it years afterwards.
And the advantage of a new lathe, is the guarantee. If it does fail you're covered.
One last thing about this type of lathe...
the variable speed system is similar to the old DAF gear box system; a series of split pulleys that spread and contract to effect speed change. You MUST push the handle back down to the slowest setting BEFORE you turn the lathe off. And this means every time you switch the lathe off...checking how the shape looks? Speed down lathe off. Checking for sanding marks? Speed down lathe off.
If you don't it will put a lot of strain on the motor and pulleys and they will fail eventually. It can a pain remembering to do it, but it's well worth developing the habit.
I hope this helps
Andy
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If i were to get the K10 chuck, which jaws would you advise to start with?
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I use "c" jaws for (approx) 80% of everthing I do. I have five or six super precision chucks, each with different jaw sets, but the C chuck is most often on the lathe. My little Axminster M330 has a K10 on it, and that has only ever had C jaws on it.
Gripper jaws are an advantage if you plan to turn a lot of wet wood, but if you are likely to be using more seasoned wood then C jaws would be my choice. Learn to cut your tennons correctly - right diameter, depth, dovetail and slight concave on the base and you won't have a problem with anything within the capacity of your lathe.
good luck with the purchase.
Andy
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well my lathe, bandsaw, bandsaw blades, and grinder have arrived. But no chisels or chuck! I have a K10 on the way, but no jaws currently, as axminster are out of C jaws for a couple of weeks. Axminster seem to be out of a lot of things currently, they should shoot their purchaser :)
The lathe I got was from Craft supplies ltd. http://www.craft-supplies.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/IM004 (http://www.craft-supplies.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/IM004) and seems to be capable of all i will need for sometime. How i will assemble it is another matter, very heavy, and will need to be bolted down I think. As my workshop floor is slanted (was a yard with slanting for water run off), will I need to make this level first? or is it only important that the lathe is not rocking (one leg not touching the ground), I ask this as people have mentioned twisting beds if it isnt level.
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You must be excited and eager to start making shavings! And everything brand new! Lucky you.
As long as all four legs are touching the floor you should be fine. It will of course be a distinct advantage if the bed is level, perhaps you could cut some wedges with your new bandsaw (carefully!), and if you do decide to bolt the lathe down then bolt through the wedges then they don't slip...if they slipped while turning that could be a safety issue.
Take care assembling everything and enjoy it all when it's up and running.
Don't forget to post a picture of the first piece you make :)
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mainly new, yes. Managed to get a Sorby 447 sharpening jig and some skew chisels cheap, second hand. Also got a once used starter set of Sorby chisels off ebay 30 quid cheaper.
Very eager ;D
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Anything manufactured in China is in a big backlog because of the Olympics they stopped all production for a month to clear the smog, hence they are behind and we as cistomers are now seeing the result, hence the big suppliers have no lathes left.
Cheers Martin.
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Hi Katchin, Have a look on the Sales Thread on this Forum Axminster 950 Lathe with Chuck for Sale Regards John