AWGB Woodturning Forum
General Category => Tool tips & reviews => Topic started by: Lurpak on October 30, 2020, 10:59:54 PM
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I’ve got a record 8inch grinder, good enough I believe......
But what jig should I purchase?
I bought a cheap imitation jig set online, and it just about does ok, I’m now ready to get something better
Any help gratefully received
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I’ve recommended the Robert Sorby Sharpening System to several folks and they all seem to like it. Unlike many others “systems” it’s very compact without having long steel support arms sticking out into the work space.
https://www.turners-retreat.co.uk/deluxe-universal-sharpening-system/p460
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I have the Tormek Bench Grinder jig allows me to use the Tormek Jigs on my Bench Grinder
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you don't need any jigs.
learn to do it free hand as it is the best skill you can have.
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I use a slow grider and a sorby jig - worked for me for 20 years.
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Up until a few months ago I sharpened freehand on a large bench grinder with a CBN wheel. Now I have finally bitten the bullet and got the Sorby pro-edge machine which is, for me, quicker and way easier to get a consistently good grind, without any slight variability that I reckon you will almost always get sharpening freehand.
In fact, the Sorby machine is so good, I have even started sharpening my bench tools (chisels, plane irons, etc) with it, with impressive results. Having always sharpened my bench tools on a diamond plate, I was pretty sure there was no way a machine could get my plane irons as sharp as I could by hand, but it appears I was wrong. Now a quick tickle up with a 600 grit belt and then stropping by hand, and the blades are razor sharp - as good as anything I have used before.
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Steve's (Seventhdevils) remark is fair enough, if you're a professional sharpening your tools on a very regular basis, although it has to be said that many pros use systems and jigs. In all the years that I've been attending club meetings, I don't recall having once seen a professional freehand-sharpen a finger-nail ground gouge! For the average amateur or hobby turner, I think that jigs and systems are invaluable and I'm in much the same boat as Percy (the previous writer), that I have gone from freehand to jigs and would not wish to go back. The simple fact that a gouge can be placed in a jig at precisely the same position every time means that a minimal amount of steel will be removed to give a good edge.
I use the Pro-Edge and love it!
Les
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Looks mean nothing I suppose but I’ve never seen a hand ground gouge that looks anything near as well done as a newcomer using a jig. It’s fair to say I’ve also never seen a new tool offered for sale that looked either hand ground or done on a wheel, they’ve all had flat grinds. The Sorby ProEdge is very good but the albeit more expensive Axminster Ultimate Edge looks a better option to me having variable speed and reverse. It also takes all the Tormek jigs.
https://www.axminstertools.com/axminster-trade-ultimate-edge-variable-speed-sharpening-system-106232
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No way I could ever get a edge freehand that I can get using a jig
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As below there are 3 basic choices the Sorby option is good, it is what I started with, then the Tormek bar for high speed grinders allows you to use any of the Tormek jigs.
Then of course there is the ProEdge but that is a different ball game.
I have in the past, and still do sharpen some gouges by hand. IF I am only using one gouge one angle it is quick and easy but when using a variety of tools sharpening by eye takes longer and is less accurate so I like jigs they get me back to the lathe quicker.
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I used to sharpen all my tools freehand and got acceptable results after plenty of pratice. Now I sharpen some of my gouges with a jig and they last five times longer so I think the cost of the jigs was more than recovered in how much I've saved on tools.
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One of the things repeated quite often at my wood turning club was not to take the tool straight to the grinder when it dulls, but to touch it up with a small diamond hone by hand. This seems to work well and I’m sure makes your tools last longer.
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One of the things repeated quite often at my wood turning club was not to take the tool straight to the grinder when it dulls, but to touch it up with a small diamond hone by hand. This seems to work well and I’m sure makes your tools last longer.
I suspect that this "knowledge" was imparted in the days where 30 turners in a factory were sharing one grind stone, and taking the opportunity for a natter in the queue ;D
A lot of modern methods were not available in days gone by, while I do like the history I do also like the ease that modernity brings in electric lathes, HSS, sharpening systems, and though yet to try them maybe even carbide at some point.
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There is a lot written about tool sharpening in general and also about sharpening woodturning tools. But as one that earns a living turning now, but as a bench joiner/wood machinist in the past, the important thing about sharpening your tools is...wait for it.....they have to be sharp! So regardless of this jig or that, or using this grinder as opposed to another the end result should be a sharp tool. The grinders I use are from B&Q and still have the grey wheel that they came with. I have one Elu grinder fitted with white wheels and I use a Sorby grinding jig and two others that I have made myself (both roughly 60 degrees). Do not be romanced into buying kit who's sole purpose is to make money for those that make them. The tool industry is very good at seducing prospective buyers.
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Far too many of us get caught up with the idea that a tool must be precisely identical in shape and angle every time but.... in my opinion..... this is a red herring. When we drive multiple vehicles we dont insist all the clutch pedals are identically set up we just get on and think nothing of the minor mental adjustment required. Why would it be any different with a turning tool? The only two requirements are that a tool be sharp and predictable in use.... whatever shape/system/jig/technique you settle on.
In answer to the original question.....Half speed grinder/wide white wheels and 2 elderly jigs, one for fingernail ground tools and one for the rest.
Brian
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Far too many of us get caught up with the idea that a tool must be precisely identical in shape and angle every time but.... in my opinion..... this is a red herring. When we drive multiple vehicles we dont insist all the clutch pedals are identically set up we just get on and think nothing of the minor mental adjustment required. Why would it be any different with a turning tool?
Brian
Your analogy doesn’t really stand up. If you’re turning say a bowl and are happy with the cut until the gouge dulls and then after sharpening it cuts quite differently would you be happy? Or put another way, if the clutch in your car mentioned above operated differently every time you changed gear would that be good, I don’t think so.
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I don't have a clutch in my car , I do have 2 sharpening systems , A pro sharp and Slow grind with 8in CBN, both are suitable for giving me the grind I want, I also use carbide tools, probably most of the time I only use 2 to 3 tools on any project, there is to much fuss made of what angle do grind at I have yet to meet any turner who can tell the difference between 45 degree and 42 other than its 3 but always before the last cut tune up the tool
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Far too many of us get caught up with the idea that a tool must be precisely identical in shape and angle every time but.... in my opinion..... this is a red herring. When we drive multiple vehicles we dont insist all the clutch pedals are identically set up we just get on and think nothing of the minor mental adjustment required. Why would it be any different with a turning tool? The only two requirements are that a tool be sharp and predictable in use.... whatever shape/system/jig/technique you settle on.
In answer to the original question.....Half speed grinder/wide white wheels and 2 elderly jigs, one for fingernail ground tools and one for the rest.
Brian
I sort of agree, and in truth though I say my main bowl gouges are at 55° they may be 53° or 57° I don't know or care, but I would be wasting time and tool length if I constantly switched between 53 and 57 if I am just polishing the edge on the same grind then it may make a difference on when I buy a new gouge, possibly!
I do have some 40/40 grind that is still done freehand and it is noticeable how easy that is if I am just using that tool, where if I am using a roughing gouge at 45, spindle at 35 skew at 15 parting tool at 25 then want to accurately judge the 40/40 it isn't impossible but it takes a bit longer so a bit more metal gets subtracted.
My tools seldom leave my workshop especially this year! but if they do I tend to sharpen them on my system before I go and not sharpen them again until I get home, even if it is the same rig as mine, it isn't at the same height / position and I don't need to so I don't.
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I think the basis of my last post went seriously deeper than just sharpening tools.
Since turning evolved from fringe skill to the widespread hobby it is today, information has been spread far and wide in print, by demonstration and teaching. This has, of course, helped us all move forward and improve our skills but, like all things in life, it also has a downside. I would suggest that many of us have lost sight of the fact that almost everything we read, watch or hear about turning is merely somebody's opinion, and is free to change over time and between different turners. I contend that there are very few facts in turning, which remain fixed and unchanging.
So why am I so relieved at the various responses to my sharpening post?
Some folk are agreeing with my statements, some disagreeing and many are falling somewhere in between but they are all offering the reasoning behind their personal views.... and that is the most healthy thing Ive seen on here for a while.
Encouraging others, especially newbies who are still feeling their way into this strange, often confusing, world of ours, to realise that there are far more ways than one to swing a cat and that to succeed they will, sooner or later, need to think things through for themselves is, surely the best favour we can offer both them and the craft-at-large.
Brian
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There is a tendency amongst some to think that their wy of doing things is the only way. As you say seeing so many varied ways on this thread is rather novel and good. I am one of the ones who free hand sharpens most of the time biut that is just my way and as I am a skinflint as well as a pro turner I am loathe to fork out a fortune on the equipment that others use. The only time I think we should perhaps be dogmatic is when someone offers an idea that is actually dangrous otherwise it's horses for courses
Pete
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just to prove my last point I almost agree with Pete!
How can we be dogmatic about any perceived danger to someone else when we don't have the full facts about the person concerned, his abilities and environment. We can only ever offer a warning and, hopefully, an alternative method, and leave the receiver to make his own decisions concerning the risk..... In my opinion, of course!!!!!
Brian
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The OP hasn’t come back so he’s probably taken up a different hobby ... ;D
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Sure I saw it on here.... ask any 10 woodturners how to do something, you will get at least 11 different answers.