AWGB Woodturning Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: The Bowler Hatted Turner on April 10, 2018, 11:25:39 PM
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I know I am the H&S person but today I had an accident at work. :-[ I cut myself, I do it all the time and consider it a hazard of the job, especially if you are a bit hamfisted like I am. But today I cut myself quite badly, it was during a demonstration and I ended up bleeding all over the place. I used up all of the plasters that were in my tool box, the old ladies in the audience were rummaging in their handbags and throwing plasters to me and the first aid kit of the hall where I was demonstrating was very inadequate. I ended up by winding a bit of parcel tape round my finger and that stopped the flow until it was time to load the car to go home and it started again.
So a fresh bit of parcel tape and a glove and I got home without causing too much mess where I planned to sort it out with my workshop/home first aid kit. In response to what I found in my first aid kit at home, which I thought was pretty good can I please ask you all, before you have an accident, to please check through the contents of your workshop first aid kit?I admit to not regularly checking my first aid kit, I don't really care if my dressings are a bit out of date but today I found that on opening some of the dressings they just disintegrated because of their age. I normally only need a plaster or two but today I needed a lot more. I could have used a triangular bandage, I have 4 of those, or elbow dressings,2,or burn dressings, about 5, along with an assortment of different shaped and coloured plasters. None of which was any use to me as I needed a finger dressing. Tomorrow first thing, I am going to town to buy non fluffy dressings and tube-e-grip and a finger stall or two. I will also get some suture strips and another tube of super glue for the first aid box. So a valuable lesson learnt. I will mark today as an anniversary on my calendar for next year and get in the habit of replacing my first aid stuff a bit more often. It would have been embarassing if it had been a student. o please, take it from me, it is time to check the contents of your first aid boxes.
PS. I should really have gone to hospital and had a couple of stitches put in but for reasons that I will not go in to that was not going to happen and I am happy with my ability to sort wounds out. I was lucky not to cut a tendon. So no washing up for a few day for me!!
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what cut you? the item you were turning or the tool you were using?
i don't have a first aid kit as i don't need one.
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I was H&S officer and the registered "First Aider at Work" for the school that I worked at for decades, and, being a part of a children's home, was inspected by all and sundry on very regular occasions. For that reason I got into the habit of inspecting the contents of every First Aid box on a monthly basis.
However, I left there a little over 3 years ago, when I bought new First Aid boxes for my workshop, but I must admit that I've not looked inside them since I bought them, so your little story has prompted me to check mine. Well done for "fessing-up", John!
Les
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Well never thought of checking my first aid kit I'll be doing that this morning and sticking a date on it, to remind me to keep checking it.
Hope the finger is ok John
All the best
Ed
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If you make a habit of getting cuts, keep some steri-strips in the kit. 50mm x 4mm are a useful size. They provide good wound closure, are unlikely to irritate and as they're sterile won't risk infection from the likes of adhesive tape.
So cheap on eBay it's worth keeping several packets in stock.
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I have a 1st aid kit in case of accidents both to muself and when I have students (not needed for the later so far) but also use thin super glue for small cuts. It is regularly used in surgery so is perfectly safe. Not sure how anyone can say that they 'don't need one'
Pete
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4 points if I may:-
1. Keep your First Aid Kit where you can get it without fuss. ie NOT in a drawer but at the front of a cupboard, keep it topped-up and check date for creams and liquids and write the date on the lid.
2. Buy an Eyewash Station and keep it where you can get it with your eyes closed on the back of a cupboard door where it is easily accessible and free from dust. Again check dates and write on the lid.
3. Make sure your Tetanus jabs are up-to-date. The main source of Tetanus is in muck heaps and middens but who knows the history of that piece of hedgerow wood.
While it's all well and good being brave and avoiding A&E. It's not so sensible with penetrating injuries from which infection may spread quickly along tissue planes. I know there's often a long wait but you're a long time dead or worse so disabled you can't work the lathe.
My credentials? 40+ yrs hospital medic
Turn Safely Nick
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John,
One of the items most prominent in my workshop First Aid cupboard is Germolene liquid skin. It stings like hell for a few seconds but quickly seals most cuts (not sure about your recent one though), I clean the injury with an alcohol wipe then apply it. It’s worth a look at.
Dave
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My plasters never have the chance to go out of date I know some of the items in my first aid kit need replacing.
I am forever getting little nicks on my hands many don't always need a plaster but I stick one on anyhow as bloody is thin due to medication and the other thing is blood is a bugger to get out of wood and stains it very well especially after I have spent ages getting the finish I want
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A timely warning, I cut my thumb yesterday. Not a major wound, but messy and, as is often the case with finger cuts, the plasters never seem to stay on - so it was back to the usual paper towel and masking tape!
As pointed out by several people above, this is NOT the best way to stop blood leaking out or infections getting in so I'll be looking at some of the suggestions and topping up my first aid box. It had never occurred to me to use superglue, so that's definitely on the list.
Thanks for the thread, very interesting
Duncan
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but also use thin super glue for small cuts. It is regularly used in surgery so is perfectly safe.
It's certainly true that CA adhesives are used surgically, but do we know if surgical products are the same as we use in the workshop ? I'd like some reassurance on that given how many different grades and products of CA are available.
There's also a secondary consideration in the use of CA in wound sealing. In a surgical situation it's carried out on the patient by someone else who knows what they're doing and has assistance available if there's a problem. Trying it literally single handed risks making matters even worse if the wrong bits of skin get bonded.
There's a lot to be said for steri-strips.
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In reply to some of the comments. Nick it was not a case of being brave it was just circumstances at the time made a visit to hospital the wrong choice, so I chose not to go. I am not without experience of minor trauma so was happy with this descision.
CA glue was invented during the Vietnam war and was used to litterally glue wounds together to get patients to a safer area without major blood loss. Having stuck myself up with superglue on more than one occasion I am confident that I do not have undue reactions to it (obviously you have to think about fumes etc) I was happy that my wound was clean and that I hadn't damaged anything important (apart from my ego)and so I was happy to take the actions that I did. We all make our own choices (this is basically what a risk assessment is) and accept the consequences. I thank you all for your concern and comments. on another point try buying one of the finger covers we used to have years ago, can't find any anywhere. So I am off to the workshop now to cut a finger off of a glove to use as protection. Hopefully if it works back to work tomorrow.
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When training as a navigation officer I had to do extensive first aid that went as far as minor operations, dealing with amputations etc. Fortunately rarely had to use any of the 'knowledge' but it did give me some insight into what to do in case of emergencies. I would agre that steri strips are good but in the workshop they often don't work and just come off. Minor cuts can be fixed easily with low viscosity CA glue and I had a surgeon as a student not long ago who informed me that basicallt there is little or no difference between the suff used in the op room and the stuff I had. More serious cuts such as on the bandsaw etc should be dealt with more seriously but as John said you need to act within your own knowledge and be safe.
Pegte
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John,
A lesson by example always works best, but I find it best not to demonstrate on one's self!
However a great point you bring out here. My First Aid kit hangs on the inside of my door, immediately visible so it can be seen by anyone opening or entering. Understanding that I may cause more than I minor cut, it is a 10 person Office sized kit.
That said, it's been there for about 10 years and never been opened, I also keep a pack of plasters for immediate use handy. So time to take a peak inside and make sure everything is still usable.
Hope you hand heals soon.
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Please note that my comments are about principles and not directed at anyone's post.
To papaphrase Pete - Stay within your comfort zone.
If you don't want to use one of the superglues then don't.
99% of all bleeding will have stopped within 20 minutes of firm pressure. Even arterial blood pressure is well below that which you can exert with your fingers and thumb.
If you feel that you are not up to basic First Aid THEN get on a course - they're not expensive.
Everyone should know how to do CPR, where their nearest Defibrillator is and how to use it - it's very simple and you will save a life.
Remember that
If you don't know you know then you think you don't know
BUT if you don't know you don't know then you think you do
Turn safe....Nick
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Bowler Hatted Turner,
Thanks for raising this issue, timely reminders on such matters can never be untimely, and the responses received underline this!
Seventhdevil,
I read most of your comments in posts with interest and respect for your knowledge but would never agree with your comment:
"I don't have a first aid kit as i don't need one".
Having trained in engineering and worked in the manufacturing industry all my life, in small companies through to very large global organisations, I make the following points:
> They all took H&S (and EHS) very seriously (as they should have done) with constant focus and routine checks to ensure adequate training and resources were always available.
> I worked with several colleagues who had had the misfortune of having a part of one or more of their fingers missing (as an example) and none were caused through deliberate actions!
> As an engineering manager, and being in the right place at the right time, I hit the emergency stop and comforted a machine setter who had badly injured himself on a rotating hydraulic arm. I won't give the details here, but the 'accident' was caused by his own actions, which were not deliberate.
Apologies to you if your comment was a joke, but I didn't take it as such, and I don't see the need for it if it was.
H&S is no joke, and no-one should ever treat it as such - as anyone who has been on the receiving end of an accident would tell you, if they're around to still be able to tell you!
With regards to all
Sandy
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it does sound a bit blase doesn't it and i'm sure the day will come where i'll need a bandage or plaster (this is yet to happen to me) but in my defence i've never had an accident that needed a first aid kit.
two things have happened to me in 11 years of turning. 1, a bowl exploded and hit me in the face at about 125mph and took 3 teeth out. off to A&E for stitches to my bottom lip.
the second was another exploding bowl which hit me in the left pectoral and tore the flesh but it did not need stitches and the bleeding stopped in minutes.
i've also been a joiner for 17 years and never had a problem there either.
i guess i'm just not a guy who has slips or perhaps i'm lucky...
that's why i made the statement but i hope people don't take me too seriously.
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Apart from when I was in the Armed Forces I have worked in wood related industry all of my life. I can honestly say that i have seen some accidents that makes the blood run cold.Most were "accidents" as in nothing could have prevented it from happening but most were negligence which in the long run could have been prevented. But negilgence is a huge net which could include lack of sleep, concentration or maintenance.It could also include lack of training which in my book is the most serious. Ignorance is no excuse. Steve I think you have been incredibly lucky not to have had some sort of accident,please be caerful. I know of a woodturner who had to have an ear stitched back on just because a bowl brock loose from the chuck. I have had 2 machine accidents in my time, both were caused by my own fault, one through not using the guards properly adjusted and the other by not being careful.
Nick i didn't think your comments were aimed at anyone in particular, no offense taken, but hasn't this proved to be an interesting and eye opening discussion?
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Seventhdevil and The Bowler Hatted Turner,
Thanks for getting back promptly and for the comments from both of you.
I too have been largely accident-free but I don't view this as being lucky, more a case of being fortunate and also by being vigilant (to an extent) mainly by getting more life experience behind me through getting older like everyone else.
None of us is perfect but being aware and vigilant is a large part of H&S, as in all aspects of life, as the posts from yourselves and others all testify to.
Sandy
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thanks for your concern john and sandy but i should say that i am careful hence the lack of accidents, i think???
a careful worker will not always get away with it and perhaps i have been lucky but i've had people say "doing it that way is dangerous" yet they are the ones who have had accidents not i. i guess it comes down to working to your strengths and perhaps not doing anything unless you know how to do it as this will result in far fewer incidents in the first place.
i'm only 35 so i'd be interested to speak to myself in 35 years time and discuss whatever incident have taken place.
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I know it is a month since the last post on this thread but I thought I would update a little more. The finger healed well within 4 or so days but has left a very faint scar. No loss of sensation, just the opposite actually. Apart from the restrictions caused by Arthur Rightus it bends as it should do. This was an accident caused by my own stupidity, (waving my hand in front of the chisel whilst talking) but the fact that my tools are always extremely sharp probably aided the healing process, a clean cut instead of a ragged one.
Further to this I now have a nicely stocked first aid kit.