AWGB Woodturning Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Katchin on May 24, 2013, 11:24:08 AM
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Hi all,
Well i'm having my small workshop replaced by a larger one. In fact my old workshop has already been torn down, and a large concrete slab laid ready to accept whatever goes on it. But i've had various thoughts and think I should ask a question or two.
Is leaving a bare concrete floor a good idea? I'm thinking of bolting the lathe down as the only reason for this.
How think should I be thinking of ordering the wood on the walls? i'm thinking mainly of security here
Should I get a dust extractor built into one of the walls or should I go for an internal 'bag it and empty it' type?
I have had to place a wooden workshop type to get around various planning regulations, rather than have had a proper building built.
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A concrete floor is good but get some decent mats on it or you will be aching all over. If you can afford it external extraction is better IMHO. As far as the walls are concerned if you can double skin them with some insulation for winter it would be a good idea, again, just my preference.
Pete
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Hi Katchin,
exciting times for you ahead. Personally I can see no problem with a concrete floor although you may want to paint it with garage floor paint to aid sweeping up.I would recommend anti-fatigue matting infront of your bench and lathe just to ease the strain on the old legs and for a bit of warmth.
If the workshop walls have exposed studwork construction I think you should consider lining them with Stirling board or ply and at the same time you can insulate them, for noise aswell as warmth. It will also offer a little bit more security than just the external cladding will.This will also allow you to fix stuff to the walls, tool racks,plug sockets and such like.
Regarding your extraction you should buy the best you can afford but I work quite happily with a bag type. If you had a Camvac or similar you may wish to build a soundproof box to put it in.
I am sure you will get other opinions on this but hope it helps.
Regards
John BHT
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Hi Katchin....Exciting times! I recently converted my garage into a workshop and had to do something about the concrete floor. The concrete was badly ridged - the builders were obviously looking forward to their next tea break! - and it was a killer on the old Achilles heel after an hour of standing in there. What I did was to buy full2" x 1" tantalised battens and lay a gridwork of them on the floor with 1" thick polystyrene insulation inbetween them. Nothing was fixed to the concrete, it just sits on it. Where my bench was going for the lathe I doubled up the frequency of the battens, and then laid 18mm t&g chipboard flooring over it, screwed onto the battens. My only concern is over the chipboard being a bit too smooth when it was very new, but it's ok now.
I realise that the biggest, heaviest machines in a professional workshop might well need to be bolted to the concrete first, but that should be no problem. At least this system remains flexible and is fairly easy to re-configure if ever you need to change the layout.....and it's warm under foot!
Les
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Thanks all. Actually I doubt I even have to bolt my lathe down, it was more of a badly worded question as to whether I should or not.
I haven't ordered a shed/workshop yet, if I order a pre fabricated one it will come with a floor anyway, if I get one custom built it will probably cost a fortune. Bit of a dilemma really!
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Just out of curiosity, has anyone on here built their own wooden workshop building? I just received a quote from a local man saying £1400 just for the labour, materials not included. I'm sort of leaning towards building it myself right now, cannot be that hard surely.
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Hi Katchin - I built mine about Ten Years ago now, a long time before woodturning was in my mind but I went to the local planners and asked what was the biggest shed I could build in my location without planning permision and just did it. The shed is 6m x 4m and 2.4m high, Concrete floor, 1m cavity block with timber on top. The roof is tiled. all insulated with double glazed windows and double doors to the side (Home Made). Electricity is brought down from the house with SWA Cable so 20A capacity without voltage drop. The whole lot cost me £1500, the biggest cost was the pressure treated shiplap cladding around the outside. Insulation is all verry well and keeps the noise in and ok in the winter but in the summer it is still very cold in there even when the temp outside it hot so build a chimney and put in a wood burner. I will see if I can post a picture over the weekend. I have to say that I did all the work myself so no labour cost. Julian
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Hi John, I'm with Julian on the self build if time permits, as you've a large concrete slab laid, was it reinforced and damp proofed, could you lay a one block high base onto it, damp proof, then stud frame on that and Bob's not by chance a Builder Friend .. or Tommy Walsh, now that was a build with his Shop..
I had to buy in the Shop and I have HD 12x10 the price 3 yrs ago was £1200 + something on delivery.. The power for it will still cost at last count before 20% vaaaat £ 500 to 600 depending on power points .. and you need the more the merrier in points.
A look at the Shop I have is selling for close to £1600 now...
What ever you do lets is some pics as you go.
Cheers David
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Well just been to Oakenclough Buildings Ltd. and got a quote from them for the building, delivery and installation.
14"x13" building, with double doors, and either 1' or 1.5' cladding.
£3928 or £4308 depending upon the cladding. Wow. I should build buildings for a living.
I have no doubt this building would stand the test of time however. And that it would be built much better than I can do. But that's still a lot of money.
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Katchin,
have a look at the Wickes catalogue.There is a 2.6 X 2.6 log cabin for £874.
You could get it up in a day.
Regards
John BHT
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yes I see that one, slightly dubious about having windows actually, for security reasons. its also a little small, but the Soma 212 one at 3.65m x 3.05m isn't too bad. Thicker wall too at 28mm. But windows again. Oh decisions decisions.
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Just out of curiosity, has anyone on here built their own wooden workshop building? I just received a quote from a local man saying £1400 just for the labour, materials not included. I'm sort of leaning towards building it myself right now, cannot be that hard surely.
Well just been to Oakenclough Buildings Ltd. and got a quote from them for the building, delivery and installation.
14"x13" building, with double doors, and either 1' or 1.5' cladding.
£3928 or £4308 depending upon the cladding. Wow. I should build buildings for a living.
I have no doubt this building would stand the test of time however. And that it would be built much better than I can do. But that's still a lot of money.
Labour sorted .. The base is down ... What price the materials to build what you'd like, your have £2500 for them against the Oakenclough lowest price, shopping round should get some deals or better materials .. then I know how the best set budgets, and that's the game, can go over.
The first HD Workshop I got from Homebase out of their catalogue I sent back ... Sooo badly put together, it would have blown over, let alone re-nail half of it.
Cheers David
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Hi Katchin, I have not long ago built my own workshop. It is 7mtrs x 3.2mtrs, constructed of 38x 63 cls timber with 18mm shiplap on the outside, 4" loft insulation in the frame and 18mm flooring chipboard lining the inside. The roof is 18mm osb3 board covered with a firestone rubber membrane in one piece, totally waterproof. I have mounted mine directly onto the concrete base but I wrapped the frame in damp proof membrane and sealed to concrete with mastic sealer. If you would like any more details please contact me. I live in Braunton in north devon and you would be welcome to come and view it if you do not live too far away.Nigel Griffin
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David,
we're having one put up in a few weeks, 1 1/4" cladding 5.8m x 3.6m at £3400. It'll be my finishing room and a workplace for Rosemary in the summer (if we get a summer?)
That does not include the groundworks either!
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Hi Katchin -- These should show the basic construction.
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very impressive, unfortunately that's the kind of 'permanent' structure that the planning office has told me not to build, hehe
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Julian, that is very impressive indeed, thank you for sharing, how's it looking now.
Cheers David
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Embarrassingly untidy I am afraid to say David and badly in need of a clear out. Working life doesn't leave much time to spend out there with only one day a week spare.
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Someone mentioned fitting a wood burner in the workshop. That may sound like good advice from a distance but unless the room is truly massive you will be unlikely to keep shavings, dust etc at a great enough distance from chimney as well as fire for any sort of peace of mind. I once turned up in my red lorry full of ladders to find a smoking pile of ash and its owner black, burnt and shedding real tears on the lawn. Spend the money on padded overalls instead would be my advice.
Tarra
Brian
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Embarrassingly untidy I am afraid to say David and badly in need of a clear out. Working life doesn't leave much time to spend out there with only one day a week spare.
Julian, That looks about right ... a worked in shop .. Working Life gets in the way .. back to it now for me, even for a BH Monday .. ready for normal days mailing ..
Cheers David
PS .. John how's it looking on your shop front.
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I built my on workshop its 14x8 foot. It cost me about £600 and with a couple of friends went up in a day and a half. Find a timber yard not a DIY outlet to get materials from. This reduced my costs by several hundred pounds. Also as only the front is viewable I clad the sides and back in exterior ply instead of shiplap which also helps to reduce build cost and time. Insulation is well worth fitting and I would recommend installing a window or two. I found some used double glazed windows being thrown out and designed around them, natural light is a great bonus in any workspace.
Paul
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Talk about delays!
Mainly due to me randomly deciding to go to the French Alps for a month on my motorcycle ;D
The new workshop is being put up this coming Thursday ;)
Although it will just be the building, and will still need powering, really looking forward to it.
And really looking forward to getting all the equipment out of my kitchen, haha.
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John, good to read you'll have the shop go up so .. it's just the rest of everything that follows.
Soon be enjoying it and having fun.
Cheers David
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I bought a standard shed - something like 10 ft by 6 ft and had a local handyman line it with 3/4 inch ply with insulation (like silver bubble wrap from Screwfix) in the cavity. I had an electrician chum provide a power supply and a few twin 13A sockets (all RCD protected). When I realised that I didn't have enough sockets I asked him about some more and he told me to buy a four gang extension lead and screw the outlet to the wall. I actually got a six gang individually switched socket and fixed the cable to the Wall with little cable clips to keep it out of the way. My original bench was built from 4x2 offcuts from an extension (and recycled school desk tops) but newer ones from recycled Speedframe.
It's NOT big enough but that's all that I could afford at the time.
MC
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It's NOT big enough but that's all that I could afford at the time.
MC
They are never big enough !
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Well they just finished installation, very happy ;D
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few more :-
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Wow John, that looks like it's going to be some workshop and not far to go from the house.
Well done. David
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Yes it's fantastic, the build quality is amazing. What I haven't decided yet, is what to do inside, should I fill in the gaps with insulation of some kind and then cover with boarding? So many choices in that area, none of them cheap.
I also picked a bad time to change my car, I traded in my estate for a coupe, so now I cannot get much in the way of boarding into the car, ooops, lack of pre-thought there.
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Dilating upon earlier comment, I decide to have the shed lined with 3/4 ply so that it would be strong enough to support things on hooks screwed into the ply. The Insulation was this http://tinyurl.com/kznvn9c from Screwfix
At the suggestion of the crime prevention policeman, I had substantial steel strip (1“ x 1/4”) fixed across window with coach bolts and I added a cylinder dead lock to support the rim lock that was supplied on the door.
MC
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What I haven't decided yet, is what to do inside, should I fill in the gaps with insulation of some kind and then cover with boarding?
Superb workshop! Definitely go for insulation as it will reduce the risk of annoying the neighbours with machine noise as well as making it habitable for winter working. If you can afford it go for the foil backed insulation (fit between the studs, before fitting the boarding), which is best for thermal insulation. I would also recommend that you use 18mm thick OSB grade 3 (Orientated Strand Board) for boarding out as it is cheaper than ply and still capable of supporting shelves etc. for storage. If you are interested I can post some photos of how I have used these materials.
Tim
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I would certainly go for lining the insides. Have a look at the white faced hardboard in Wickes for use on the ceiling, you could use fibre glass insulation in the roof.
I think you ought to supply us with a floor plan so that we can decide where you are going to put your machines ;D
A lovely shed, I'm green with envy.
Regards
John BHT
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Hi all, well I have finally put chisel to wood a few times, been months!
Having to relearn the basics all over again, bit that's okay.
I eventually decided against insulation, the costs would have simply been too much, and to be perfectly honest, will the fan heater and the oil filled radiator, it's like summer in there anyway, too hot.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84234930/20131120_142526.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84234930/20131120_142502.jpg)
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I am having some lathe problems though. I'm getting 'wobble' and shift currently. I have taken the wheels and the height adjuster off, but that has only made it worse. I assume I will have to fix the lathe onto the wooden floor, but how? I have no access to underneath the floor its built on a solid concrete base after all.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84234930/20131215_154944.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84234930/20131215_154933.jpg)
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Hi Katchin - Having had similar problems in the past, I wonder if the problem is the wooden floor? Are the floorboards supported by joists on the concrete (in which case they will definitely flex), or are the boards resting directly on the concrete? If the latter then one possible option might be to cut holes in the boards so the lathe stand supports are resting directly on the concrete.
Another thought. Are there threaded holes in the stand legs to enable levelling screws to be inserted to ensure that all four legs are in firm contact with the floor?
Tim
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Hi Tim, yes all 4 legs have threaded holes, however the lathe only came with 2 adjusters, and 2 wheels, shown below. I fear the floor is wood, most likely on joists, the floor is also 3-4 inches higher than the concrete
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84234930/2013-12-15%2017.11.25.jpg)
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If there are no threaded holes, would it be too difficult to drill and tap them?
Axminster sell Adjustable Machinery Feet; if I've copied the url correctly, there's information here: http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-adjustable-machinery-feet
MCB
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It need to sit straight on the concrete
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Can you tell where the joists are under the floorboards? Perhaps there are screw holes for the screws fixing the boards to the joists.
Is it feasible to put the feet of the lathe stand immediately above the joists and then screw through the boards into the joists with coachbolts?
MCB
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Hi Katchin,
in your situation this is what I would do.
I would cut a hole in the wooden floor and cast using shuttering a concrete base the right height for your lathe so's that the lathe feet sit directly on the concrete. I would drill the holes in the feet a little bigger and use 12mm Rawbolts to fix the lathe down, using shims if needed to level it.
Levelling the lathe with threaded rod is not really that good IMHO. This will take all the vibration out of the floor and on the odd occasion when you have an unbalanced piece it will make life easier. You may also find that the noise level is reduced.
Regards
John BHT
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Thanks all, I had a reeling somebody might suggest that BHT. I was hoping for an easy fix instead ;D
oh well.
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You could try adding some weight to the stand, this is what I've done & it's worked very well.
The easiest & cheapest way is to drape a bag or 2 of builders sand etc over the mid-rail & see if it makes any difference. It'll only cost you a couple of quid to try & if it does help you can then come up with a more attractive solution for adding weight.
I ended up making a cupboard & drawers made from 2 sheets of 18mm MDF & a sheet of 16mm plywood, mounted with due care to the stand of my lathe it has really given stability to the lathe with the huge added bonus of loads of storage space & a flat surface on which to rest the chisels I'm using whilst turning.
Cheers.
Doug.
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Hi John - you could adopt the (low cost) solution which works for me on a similar sized (midi?) lathe to yours. I find that in a smallish workshop it is vital to have machines which can be moved out of the way or repositioned when not in use.
Basically this method consists of purchasing four braked swivel castors (50mm diameter wheels) each castor with a single threaded attachment hole which matches the existing thread in the base of the lathe stand (typically these will be M8 or M10 on your stand?). These are cheaply available on EBAY.
All you need then are four compatible bolts which can be screwed through the existing threaded holes in the stand and into the threaded holes of the castors. Fit the castors to the stand and simply push the lathe into position in the workshop. The first photo shows the castor bolts screwed DOWN supporting the lathe in mobile mode.
(http://www.pettigrews.org.uk/awgb-forum/dml305vs-01.jpg)
After positioning the lathe, I either place some breeze-blocks or, as pictured below, some substantial timber battens beneath the stand which thereby maximises the support contact between stand and floor. The bolts on the castors are then screwed UP so that the stand is lowered and is supported by the breeze-blocks or (as here) the battens. You could use more supports beneath the stand if required.
(http://www.pettigrews.org.uk/awgb-forum/dml305vs-03.jpg)
This method certainly works OK for me!
Hope this may help.
Tim
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Hi all, still having really bad problems with bigger pieces of wood. I've tried coach bolts and heavy sand bags, but still getting terrible vibrations. The floor is the as thick as I first thought, it's probably only an inch (less than the walls). I'm guessing I have to start cutting holes in the floor and laying concrete now, must say that thought does not fill me with joy :-(
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Try fitting an angled brace , a piece of angle iron or wood ( or both ) attach one end as high as you can to the lathe then have the other end attached to the floor a few feet from the lathe at 45- 60 degree angle this is simple trigonometry crude but effective but be careful not to keep tripping over it . I use a lump of 4x2 jammed between the head stock and door jam sometimes when roughing out a big out of balance piece !! You could also have a strut , again fixed to a high up point on lathe to a sturdy wall behind the lathe . Terry....
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Katchin
Drill through the wood floor and straight in to the concrete buy some long thru bolts hammer them in to the hole which is in the concrete the stud will be sticking up through the wood floor the lathe can be fixed in place. Just one thing once the thru bolts are fixed in place you will have studs coming up through the floor, should you want to put the lathe somewhere else at some point you will have to cut the studs off.
You can get the thru bolts here http://www.thesitebox.com/screws-fixings/fixings/through-bolts/zinc-plated-through-bolts.aspx
Ed