AWGB Woodturning Forum
General Category => Tool tips & reviews => Topic started by: John D Smith on April 21, 2016, 07:38:20 PM
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I have received an email from Axminster Power Tools suggesting "Our Four Must Have Tools to get Started" when you buy a Lathe
1. Roughing Gouge,(where is the correct title SPINDLE Roughing Gouge) :o
2. Spindle Gouge.
3. Diamond Parting Tool.
4. Oval Skew ??? ??? ??? Surely not for beginners :-\
I would like to hear the views of forum Members on the Choice and Maybe Axminsters point of view
Regards John
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10mm Bowl Gouge (Long handle)
10mm spindle Gouge
3/4 Spindle roughing Gouge
3/4 Rolled edge Skew
Diamond Parting tool
Shear Scraper
All from Crown hand tools
Worth paying the bit extra and getting Cryogenic
Ring Mark Sanger for a quote or by PM from this forum
Regards George
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I'll second George on his choice, except I would go for a slightly bigger bowl gouge (1/2"). And yes, the cryogenic stuff is worth the extra money.
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I always used a 1/2" bowl gouge for years but now it is very rare for me to use it most of the time now I use the 10mm and find it does everything I want .
I think the 10mm is more sensitive to use but if I am roughing out a lot of bowls the 1/2" is better
Regards George
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Hi John,I agree Spindle roughing gauge,people seem to forget the correct term for it these days and a very useful tool,where if you are doing straight spindle work,the finnish you get off of these can be marvelous,and you can go straight to 320 grit abrasive,the spindle gauge another great tool if sharpened correctly for doing detail work as well as general spindle work,the 1 1/8" oval skew where it is so thin can be a monster at times,I wouldn`t recommend it as a starter tool,again with this tool its all in the sharpening,get that right and its lovely to use when razor sharp off an oilstone,I think I`d go with a 3/8"10 mm round skew as they are more forgiving for the starter/novice turner and lastly I`d go for a thin parting tool like the Ashley Iles or the Sorby fluted ones,I`d chuck in a 3/8 10 mm bowl gauge to,cheers,
Eric.
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All from Crown hand tools
Worth paying the bit extra and getting Cryogenic
Not sure I'd agree with this George. You need the right wheel to grind these successfully and a beginner is unlikely to have one.
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The Robert Sorby 67HS box set is all that's need for a starter kit
3/4 spindle roughing gouge
3/8 spindle gouge
3/8 bowl gouge
3/4 skew
1/8 parting tool
1/2 round scraper
Other manufactures do similar box sets they offer good value for money by and large with the Sorby you are getting two tools free if you were to work out the individual prices.
Ed
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The Robert Sorby 67HS box set is all that's need for a starter kit
3/4 spindle roughing gouge
3/8 spindle gouge
3/8 bowl gouge
3/4 skew
1/8 parting tool
1/2 round scraper
Other manufactures do similar box sets they offer good value for money by and large with the Sorby you are getting two tools free if
you were to work out the individual prices.
Ed
Then you would need a square scraper so it is not a complete set
Regards George
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Who said anything about a complete set George the post was about a starting woodturning
Ed
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So you don't think a square scraper is necessary as a complete starter set ::) ::) ::)
Regards George
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If you have a skew and a parting tool, either of these could be used in place of a square scraper for most uses.
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With all due respect Paul I think it is a bit irresponsible to suggest that a Skew chisel could be used instead of a square scraper and how a parting tool could take the place of a square scraper is a mystery to me.
A square scraper would be used on the outside of a bowl as a refining tool and a novice should never be encouraged to put a skew chisel any where near a bowl.
Regards George
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When you think about it, there is no difference between a skew and a negative rake scraper, apart from perhaps a longer bevel. The same applies to a parting tool, it's a straight cutting edge. Whether it's a scraper or not is just how you apply it to the wood.
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Hi George
In answer to your question I don't think that a scraper is needed at all in a starter set.
I very rarely use scrapers myself.
All the best
Ed
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A scraper with a freshly made burr will take off far finer shavings than a gouge every time.A lot of turners just don't know how to use one so they say they don't need to use one where as if they were to learn how to use it they would find a scraper is one of the best turning tools in the box.
A scraper should be producing very fine shavings if you are getting dust and tear out you are using it wrong.
I don't care how clever a turner somebody is they will not take off shavings as fine with a gouge as you will with a scraper.
Regards George
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ah ask 10 turners and all that :) :) and get 15 answers :D
When I teach I introduce students to what I believe are the necessary tools to complete every project in turning other than an under cut hollow form.
For this I recommend
19 mm Spindle roughing gouge
10 mm Bowl gouge
10 mm spindle gouge
19 mm rolled edge skew. Personally I find the oval unstable in use to start out with.
6 mm Parting tool
25 mm round nose scraper
25 mm Square scraper
(or get the 25 mm shear scraper which has the convex and concave option in one which saves money and is a better option as it is a round bar tool so stable during shear scraping.
Now I hear what people say about scrapers, but they have been around as long as turning itself and when starting out turning they can be a good 'go to' option when getting to grips with the bowl gouge and in many cases they are used by the most advance turners for certain situations, watch Steve Jones's videos to see this.
I advocate and explain that with practice they will be able to get a smooth curve and a fine finish in bowl turning with a gouge and to practice to achieve this.
However many starting out will not be able to get the practice that many of us do, frustration can creep due to poor surface finish due to bevel rubbing problems so I always explain the use of scrapers as an option along with the positives and negatives as with all tools.
Indeed I and many others can turn a complete bowl using only a 10 mm bowl gouge with long grind, including finishing and shear scraping cuts. This is not how I would start out teaching as it is not the most suitable option for a beginner. Scrapers are an important part of our arsenal.
Just my thoughts, we all do it a bit differently once we get into the swing of things but foundation knowledge for me should be a constant. :)
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I learned to turn in school with nothing but scrapers, not a gouge in site. Roughing out was done with a saw and a plane to get as round as possible.
Pete
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All from Crown hand tools
Worth paying the bit extra and getting Cryogenic
Not sure I'd agree with this George. You need the right wheel to grind these successfully and a beginner is unlikely to have one.
Hi Bryan
Bit confused what you say here about the right wheel. Cryogenic is HSSl heated and dipped into liquid nitrogen the process changing the internal structure making it harder to give longevity in the cutting edge compared to standard HSSM2
It is still HSS and grind in the same way and on the same wheel as standard HSS and HSSM2 I have sharpened mine on a standard 100 grit white wheel ever since I started turning without any issue.
Also I have ground cryo on CBN and Ceramic again no real difference unless the girt is finer.
There may be something in am not aware of hence my asking/bringing this up.
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Mark,
don't know if it's me, but I find I need to use a fine wet wheel to get an edge that lasts, not a Grind wheel even with pink wheels on it.
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I use all Crown Cryo tools and sharpen them on a CBN wheel an they are so sharp you could nearly shave with them
Regards George
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Don't doubt it George. CBN wheels are something else when it comes to sharpening.
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I've used Georges cbn, Georges Sorbey belt system and my 100 grit white wheel and not noticed any difference in edge longevity. I do hone my skew on an MDF wheel with compound but again, yes it is ultra sharp but I don't notice any difference in longevity of edge.
Agreed a wet fine wheel will give a finer edge such as the Tormek which I have always used but I don't notice any difference. Perhaps I have not really paid much attention to it. Will speak to Crown and see what they say as like I said earlier, I may be missing something.
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Not wanting to take John's thread off track once I have the info I will post in a separate thread. :)
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Thank you everyone for your input to the question I asked it is interesting to see other members points of view and advice.
Regards John
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Not wanting to take John's thread off track once I have the info I will post in a separate thread. :)
I don't see it as taking the thread off track it is all part of giving the best possible advise to a turner starting out and buying the best quality tools available within budget.
When students come to me if they have already bought tools I suggest they bring them and I will help them with sharpening and profiling.
You would be amazed what I have seen everything from files to the £19 00 set of Ebay inc some that a young lady brought along that I broke in half with my bare hands.
Regards George
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Ok well if John wants this comment removed I will started it in a new one. :)
This morning I contacted Crown and asked if a specific wheel is needed to sharpen the Cryogenic steel. The answer was a definite 'NO' in the the grind-ability of the metal is not altered through the process and it can be ground on any wheel from a standard to CBN. The process changes the internal structure in relation to edge retention.
I was told that as with all of the steel variants HSS, HSSM2 Cryo, Pro M, if a finer wheel is used or the edge is honed then they will be sharper and may last longer the same as sharpening any of the variants on say a Tormek or CBN compared to a 100 grit white wheel.
So 'no' is the answer a special wheel is not needed.
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Hi Mark,
Leave your comments on please they are always of value and full of useful information thank you for taking the time to add to this thread.
Regards John
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I've used Georges cbn, Georges Sorbey belt system and my 100 grit white wheel and not noticed any difference in edge longevity. I do hone my skew on an MDF wheel with compound but again, yes it is ultra sharp but I don't notice any difference in longevity of edge.
Agreed a wet fine wheel will give a finer edge such as the Tormek which I have always used but I don't notice any difference. Perhaps I have not really paid much attention to it. Will speak to Crown and see what they say as like I said earlier, I may be missing something.
Mark,
I'd definitely be interested in that answer.
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I've used Georges cbn, Georges Sorbey belt system and my 100 grit white wheel and not noticed any difference in edge longevity. I do hone my skew on an MDF wheel with compound but again, yes it is ultra sharp but I don't notice any difference in longevity of edge.
Agreed a wet fine wheel will give a finer edge such as the Tormek which I have always used but I don't notice any difference. Perhaps I have not really paid much attention to it. Will speak to Crown and see what they say as like I said earlier, I may be missing something.
Mark,
I'd definitely be interested in that answer.
Hi Bryan
Already answered it above John's last post.
The answer is 'No' Cryo does not need a special wheel.
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I`ve found over the years if you can`t afford a decent sharpening system a cheap grinder to get the initial sharpness then glue a pice of 600 grit and a piece of 1200 grit wet and dry paper to a flat board etc,gives a wonderful edge and always handy when you do have a decent set up to touch up an edge while turning,cheers,
Eric.
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As usual a variety of answers on how to get a keen edge, however the question was about the longevity of the edge, and that surely depends on the steel the tool is made from
Ron
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It only partly depends on the steel.
Some woods blunten tools quicker than others .
In my opinion some turners can keep an edge longer than others good tooling helps ..
A tool that is cutting cleanly will keep an edge longer than one that is hacking at the wood
Regards George