AWGB Woodturning Forum
General Category => Tool tips & reviews => Topic started by: julcle on December 23, 2013, 09:57:28 PM
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Hi Guys - A quick question if I may about home turned Tool Handles that I have made from Ash Stock that I have around the shed. I am happy turning and fitting to round stock for Bowl and Spindle gouges but not so happy on the square section stock. I have been given a couple of Ashley Isles Chisel Blades, One is a Bedan and the other a Flat Ground Skew and the stock is 1/2" x 1/4" with a tapered tang the overall length is about 10". Is there any sort of formulae for drilling the hole in the handle ( I can't imagine a square hole ) as I can imagine too small and the handle will split and too large and the tool will work loose, also is there any guidance on handle length to tool length ratio that I should be looking at to get a good balance on the tool. I would be interested I the views of the more experienced turners on the forum.
Many Thanks
Julian
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I've drilled a hole in tool handles with a hand power drill mounted in a clamp so the axis was horizontal and used a Drill File of diameter equal to the thickness of the tang to first drill to the correct depth and then widen by moving the ferrule end of the handle to and fro until it's width equalled the width of the tang.
I discovered that it's important to have a good ferrule on the handle to minimise splitting.
I would have preferred to drill vertically but there was insufficient clearance between the drill bit and the base of drill press for the handle. It would probably be OK on a floor standing drill press though.
MC
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I've made a couple of handles for square stock. OI have drilled a hole equal to the cross section of the metal about 2/3's the way down the tang, then using a small chisel chopped the hole square. I've not worried too much about it being a perfect fit, rather an under size is good as the insertion of the tool forces the fibres to grip and hold the tang better.
I have also seen 2 other methods. laminate the handle with the centre section being cut to take the tang before glue-up, then turn it round and the tang being heated to a level where it burns it's way through the round hole to set itself (not sure about this as an idea though).
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I normally drill my handles on the lathe as a first step(I might rough them down first but not always). I then centre the blank using the hole as a centre point, this ensures the fitted blade is parallel to the handle.
For tangs that are not round I will drill a hole slightly smaller than the o/a width of the tang decreasing in size the deeper it gets. I split turn tapered wedges and glue them in place, one either side of the tang.
As MCB stated a good ferrule is best.
As regards length of the handle that depends on what the tool will be used for. If it is a hollowing tool you want the handle fairly long for a skew I wouldn't make the handle longer than the blade.(Unless you are in to bodging or mill wrighting when I believe longer handles are preferred)
When fitting the handle position the blade in the hole and hit the end of the handle with a mallet, don't be tempted to rest the end on the bench and drive it home or you could damage the blade. You will feel when it is fully home.
I don't like heating the tang and burning it in, I am not a metallurgist so do not understand the damage I can do to the blade by heating to an uncontrolled temperature and also if you burn the insides of the handle you will harden the timber and so reduce the holdability (?)of the timber.I feel that there is also the chance that internal splits may occur so this goes against the grain(no pun intended) for me as we all try carefully to avoid heat checks in our work.
If you end up turning a nice handle but the hole is too big drill the hole larger and turn a plug to fit snugly and then glue it in and start the hole again once the glue has dried. If you have arthritis or hand problems you might like to turn the handle slightly over diameter, this may make them more comfortable to use over long periods.
hope this helps
Regards
John BHT
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I've fitted tanged tools by drilling an undersized hole (say at 3/4 up the tang) then heated the tang and burnt it in. It's also possible to use say 3 drills to make a stepped hole. Smallest drill first of course !!!
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You could try Miller Dowel Stepped Drill Bits on the Axminster site. They come in 3 sizes. Drill a hole using an appropriate size bit then finish fitting toll by heating and burning to fit.
Roger
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I understand that burning the tang into a wooden handle is an accepted way of fitting FILES with handles but an earlier contributor cautioned against doing this for turning tools.
I have successfully fitted turning tool handles by clamping the steel tool in a vice (fibre jaws; fixed to bench with M10 bolts) and encouraging the handle onto the tang by tapping with a 2.5 lb engineer's hammer.
I then secured the handle with cyano-acrylate glue.
I'll be VERY surprised if it ever loosens.
MC
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I thought I might get picked up about burning in the tang. I don't recall one coming loose. Another way is to glue wedges in the sides. Araldite is a useful filler. Any tips on fitting round bars?
I assume copper pipe is commonly used for ferrules, and secured by centre punching. I'm fortunate to have an "engineer's" vee block for support.
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I think that Copper Pipe is too soft for ferrules. I was given a turning chisel where the ferrule is cracked and split longitudinally because, I suspect the wood was forced out by insertion of a tang without sufficiently large hole pre-drilled.
MC
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Seems at 88.6 I'm old fashioned !!!!
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PS. Poor workmanship was to blame, not the copper.
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Another reason for the ferrule splitting (and it's not uncommon) is the shortness of the metal set into the handle, sometimes only a couple of inches for a bar shaped tool.
If you think about the 'Turning' (physics not woodwork) motions and subsequent stresses on the handle where it's thinnest (the ferrule) you can understand why the ferrule is fitted and why they fail sometimes.
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I had a ferrule split on a tool because the handle got damp. Once it dried out again, the crack in the ferrule closed up again. Fortunately it was a thin tool so I could easily replace the ferrule without removing the tool from the handle.
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It has no doubt been said in the past of the use of copper joiners which come in 8, 10, 15, 22 and 28mm internal diameter and thicker walled, should be a useful size there. As with concern for the inner rib, I've seen a plumber hammer it out over a punch.
Cheers David
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Very many thanks for all the replies, there is a lot here to digest but I do like the idea of the miller dowel drill bit, I will have to think about everything that has been said and have a go at a few. I do have a good stock of ferrules (well 2 or 3 ) so brass is not a problem but I have used copper in the past and not had any problems with it. I will let you know how I get on with it. Many Thanks once again -- Julian
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I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong (that's the reason for this post) but am I right in thinking that "proper" ferrules have a very slight taper on them? Going back to when I was apprenticed (about 1843)I'm sure I can remember the "old boy" telling me that as the ferrule could then be tightened if it worked loose.
Regards
John BHT
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I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong (that's the reason for this post) but am I right in thinking that "proper" ferrules have a very slight taper on them? Going back to when I was apprenticed (about 1843)I'm sure I can remember the "old boy" telling me that as the ferrule could then be tightened if it worked loose.
Regards
John BHT
I think you are right John. Also a lot thicker than the copper pipe though I admit I use it on my handles.
Pete
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That's interesting John, I have just had a look at two of the ones I bought from Ashley Isles last year at yandles and although they have a bevel on the inside of one end there is no taper on either the 1" O/D or the 7/8" O/D. I made my first handle for a bowl gouge after returning from Yandles and didn't use any fixing agent, there was already a pip in it. It's been in the shed ever since and is still as tight as when I put it on (let's hope it stays that way). -- Julian
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I use copper pipe for my ferrules and so far I have yet to have a failure.
The only ferrule that has split for me is on a paring chisel which got damp. I would take it back but I bought it 60 years ago and I cannot find the receipt!
Ron
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It was always said Ron that good quality tools last you a lifetime. I have a Sorby paring chisel from when I was apprenticed. Still going strong. There seems to be something about the old steel that holds an edge better that the modern steels.
John BHT
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I use copper pipe for my ferrules and so far I have yet to have a failure.
The only ferrule that has split for me is on a paring chisel which got damp. I would take it back but I bought it 60 years ago and I cannot find the receipt!
Ron
A reputable manufacturer won't split hairs about one of their tools being just out of guarantee period.
The Sale of Goods Act requires things to be of “merchantable quality”
MC
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John,
Old edged tools were Cast or Warrented Steel, not the modern Tool Steel. They do take a far sharper edge but are very susseptable to bluing (drawing the temper) if ground a bit hard.
Somewhere in another thread I mentioned a chisel I'd had re hardened & not quite fully tempered, it takes a razor edge, is very hard and I'd watch it shatter if i ever dropped it, but what a tool.
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Ahh, a sharp edge, a thing of beauty. You know when sometimes in the workshop you just need to do something to calm down? for me it used be a couple of gaspers and a mug of caffeine, no gaspers now though so what to replace them with?
Once I have my coffee I very calmly get a favourite wood chisel out along with the India sharpening stone, the slate one and the artificial one. I have a strip of leather on ply to strop with ,I don't grind but go through all the stones(just like the grits when sanding) and strop until I get a beautiful razor sharp edge. Over the years the back has become polished to a high shine and the satisfaction and relaxation I get from going through the motions is priceless.
Dear Marg, am I normal? ;D
Regards
John BHT
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John,
I understand the feelings you impart in your description (God I still miss my pipe), chisels yes but plane irons are my personal thing.
And if you're not normal, there is no hope for me either!
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if you have to ask if your'e normal, your'e not!!!
doesn't everybody spend hours locked away in a workshop sharpening, turning, cutting blanks, sanding, oiling and polishing?
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I have a set of Marples chisels that were my dads,they had the then newfangled red and yellow plastic unbrakeable handles,I was 7 or 8 at the time,was chuffed as I got his old ones which were his dads,I still have both sets,and no handle breakages on either set as yet,and still kept as sharp as my father kept them.