AWGB Woodturning Forum
General Category => Tool tips & reviews => Topic started by: Paul Disdle on February 08, 2013, 03:24:01 PM
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I am looking for some tool tips for using the skew chisel.
Why are the three profiles? Rectangular, oval and round? Is anyone easier for me to start with? (I have 4x rectangular and 1x oval)
I have been given a range of different sized skew chisels, would I be right in assuming the size of the chisel shares a relationship with the diameter of the piece of wood being turned?
What are the general recommendation of what determines leading with the toe or heel of the tool?
I appreciate that a lot of this is personal preference but reasons why you like one way or the other would be a good starting point for me.
Thanks
Paul
Here is where I am with my skew practise, only one corkscrew this time. :D
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Hello Paul,
I normally start my students off with the oval skew as it is slightly easier to use.I don't have a round one but have seen them being used on a youth training day and the youngsters got on very well with them(but that could be an age thing!!)
I don't usually care what size chisel I use but as a rule of thumb I would use a wide one on larger diameter stock as you have suggested. The 1/2 skew is a good one to practice with. I do say to people though that don't be too bothered about learning the skew to begin with because you have many other chisels to learn first and once you are proficient with and understand how and why they cut the way they do the skew will come naturally to you.
Regards
John BHT
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Paul,the skew is open to more legend and lore, myths and secrets than any other turning tool.
There are people who swear by a curved cutting edge, or as you've noted by a round bar made into a skew. I'll tell you the one and only secret you need to be able to use the skew - Practice!
The reason some people say that there adaptation is the best is because they've fallen into that way of using it and practised through use. If anyone tells you any different, just remember this one fact.
Having said that you still need some pointers in the use of the thing. Lets try a few simple ideas.
With a permanent marker draw a line from the centre of the bevel, part way down the blade on both sides.
1st Rule, when cutting never cut above that line compared to the tool position on the rest.
2nd Rule, place the tool slightly high on the rotating wood, draw back and raise the handle slowly watching for the bevel to meet the wood and a shaving to appear, hold and then push gently, the cut to commence.
3rd Rule, use both hands equally cutting to the left and the right, you'll develop muscle memory (tool control) that will pay dividends in the future.
4th Rule, never float your skew in from free air to the wood, always start on the wood.
Following these, you'll learn to use the skew to plane the wood smooth and round, and a degree of control. From there you can progress to long slow sweeping curves, like you see in banisters and the like. Practice these until you can do it quite automatically - Beads etc. can come a little later as you'll have the basic control you need to progress.
I'd also suggest that you invest in a copy of Woodturning: A Foundation Course by Keith Rowley http://www.amazon.co.uk/Woodturning-Foundation-Course/dp/1861081146 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Woodturning-Foundation-Course/dp/1861081146). It is generally considered the definitive book for learning to turn and covers the skew very well.
Rule 5, The most important thing - Yes, I'm afraid you will make a lot of spirals in learning, and even occasionally once you consider yourself skilled with the Skew - we all do. The reason is generally because you trail the bevel too close to the wood and catch it above the position of the cut, so when rolling curves or beads keep the skew turned above the line of the cut.
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That's a good price, looking down the also buys I noticed http://www.amazon.co.uk/Two-One-Woodturning-Two-one/dp/1840922435/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_y (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Two-One-Woodturning-Two-one/dp/1840922435/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_y) .. It's a good reference book with more up to date tools, even with being a 2000 publication.
Cheers David
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I have Keith's book which I bought before buying any tools. The other book looks interesting I will try the library for it.
Thanks for the tips.
Thanks
Paul
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I am looking for some tool tips for using the skew chisel.
Why are the three profiles? Rectangular, oval and round? Is anyone easier for me to start with? (I have 4x rectangular and 1x oval)
Hi Paul,
You've already had some excellent tips on using the skew, but may I add one more, as you say you've got 4x rectangular skews. If these are quite old and the rectangle has sharp corners, take a file and round off the ones on the short point side. The reason is that the skew is often used slightly lifted off the toolrest at one side, so a sharp corner will dig into your toolrest. And a sharp corner will find any nicks in the toolrest, causing your cut to stutter as you try to move steadily along the rest.
Newer tools usually have these edges rounded over and are referred to as rolled edge skews, although the cross section is still predominantly rectangular.
Regarding preferred size of skew, I prefer a one inch oval. Smaller than that and there isn't much change in position from a 'nice' cut, to where the cut moves up the edge and the long point digs in. Larger than that and the tool can get a bit heavy to use. Good for damping vibration but harder to use for delicate beads etc.
One other tip. Many people find raising the toolrest slightly higher than you use for other tools, makes the skew easier to use. It's not necessary but if it helps you get used to a tool, it may be worth trying.
Finally, I will echo the other posts - practise, practise, practise, and make sure you keep the skew VERY sharp.
Have fun,
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The best way to learn to use the tools properly is to get tuition from a good woodturner.
And because somebody has been woodturning for many years don't assume they are good woodturners a lot are not.
I suggest you have a day or two with a professional turner before you get into too many bad habits.
The RPT.Register of professional turners keep a list of turners who teach.Get in touch with them and find out a turner in your area that gets good feedback.
Regards George
:-\ ....
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Thanks George tuition is something I am exploring. With regard to the RPT list there is no feedback on there and they state we do not assess the people listed for teaching ability so how does one know if they are good or not. I am fortunate that Andy Coates is the person closest to me and having seen him demo, he appears to be a good communicator of the art.
Another question is how do you assess bad habits as everybody seems to have there own style? are there some common beginner pitfalls?
Would you agree that if you like a turners work and they will show you how to do it that's a good starting place. Is technique or the end product more important
Thanks for all the help its helping my learning curve no end
Paul
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Being a god turner doesn't make you a good tutor. As George states there is a system for 'students' to give feedback when they go to a tutor. If you have experience of or recommendations for Andy go for it. Save you a lot of time, anguish and wasted wood.
pete
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Paul,do you belong to the Norwich woodturners club,if so any of us there who enjoy using the skew chisel would be happy to give you some tips,coaching etc;if you don`t then come along to a meeting,we meet on the first Friday of the month,7.30 pm start,regards,
Eric.
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Hi Eric
Yes I do belong to the club since the beginning of the year. Maybe we can meet at the March meeting and sort out some coaching for me.
Thanks
Paul
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yep that will be fine,regards,
Eric.
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Hi Paul
Andy will put you on the right track with the Skew, it a very good tool to use.
You can be sure any member of the RPT will give you good advice and will not show you any bad habits, As George says a feedback form is given to all people attending a course and this is check to ensure anyone attending a course is given good advice and has a well maintained workshop.
Philip
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Hi Paul,
I have a couple of points that I would like to verify for you regarding some of the comments previously posted.
The RPT (The register of professional Turners) tuition/demonstration feedback system is entirely voluntary and not all members participate.
To find out who is teaching locally in your area, talk to members of the Norwich woodturning club many of whom are past students of mine and other local tutors. I feel it would be of great benefit for you to invest in some, one to one tuition, for a couple of hours or depending upon your budget 1 or 2 days to answer and resolve your questions.
To answer some of your questions regarding the skew chisel would take far too long here; I have however given you some brief answers below. Alternatively I will be demonstrating sharpening and the use of the Skew Chisel at the Norwich woodturning club in July.
Flat skew chisel = The traditional form. Great for creating details planing and general use.
Oval Skew chisel = A relatively modern version created to try to make things easier, but as a result is less stable in use as the strength has been removed, it will when sharpened correctly produce a sharper edge and consequently is probably the best tool for making pummel cuts in my opinion.
The round Skew chisel = The round Skew Chisel has been around for quite some time but it has more recently been heavily promoted by Gary Rance, it is often favored by production turners for its ease of use as it rolls better than any of the above and can be an extremely versatile tool in the right hands.( I would also add it will be less prone to catches than any of the others)
Size. The size of the tool is generally of little consequence however the larger the tool the easier it will be to use when learning, that said if turning a small finial I would not be using an 1 1/2” Skew.
My personal choice for must have basic Skews are detailed below:
1” flat skew: This could be used for creating dovetails to match the chuck jaws being used, as well as all the usual cuts.
1” oval Skew chisel: Best tool for pummel cuts.
3/8” round: A great all round versatile Skew chisel.
Hope this is of help to you
Nick Arnull
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I noticed a radiused skew on a site today, could anyone enlighten me to the pros and cons of one of these?
Paul
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A radiused skew either has the square edges of the blade rounded so that it slips over the toolrest easier,or it has an arc shaped blade instead of the normal straight edge of the skewed blade,I have radiused the blade on my 1 1/8" skew as I find it more controllable like this,whereas on my 1/2"skew I leave the skewed blade straight if you get my meaning,regards,
Eric.
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Oh,if I remember Paul,I`ll bring my skew chisels up the club friday night to show you
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Thanks Eric it was the arc shaped blade I had seen. Did you just reshape on a grinder? Great see you Friday.
Paul
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yes,just a quick reshape,it didn`t take much to do it,as the oval blades seem quite a bit thinner than the square blades
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As a production turner I favour the 1" flat skew without doubt. It maybe just the fact I was taught that way and have 40 years experience with it.
The skew is the most used and versatile tool in my rack by far and as the previous posts say it is all about practice.
I do love the skew and recommend that you take others advise and find a professional tutor for tips.
I agree with Bodrighywood, a good woodturner does not always make a good tutor. I class myself as a good turner but I am a lousy tutor. :-[
My tips would be Use a nice, light grip Learn the overhand grip. Almost all of your control comes from the hand at the end of the handle. The hand closest to the work generally just keeps the tool on the tool rest.
I would recommend that as a beginner make sure you watch the leading edge and keep the tip cutting. The ability to use the planning method is for experienced woodturners.
Most important of all is keep razor sharp, as with all your tools but even more important with the skew.
Stick with it and when you get the hang of it you will find it is almost therapeutic as you peel of the shavings.
p.s. Never forget that concentration is required at all times with the Skew.
There is a clip video of me turning a very simple spindle almost all by skew on youtube . If you view it may I suggest turning the sound down as the lathe was waiting for a new thrust bearing and is noisy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BRDGq551PA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BRDGq551PA)
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Thats a very good video for learning from thanks. It looks from the video that you have your tool rest high almost the same height as the top of the spindle, do you?
Thanks
Paul
If using the skew becomes as therapeutic as when I watch you I will be one happy chap!
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I like the spindle steady idea Steve. Not seen that one before. I also do a lot of spindle work though not production work like you, and the skew is probably my most used tool though like most it took a while to get the hang of it.
Pete
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good video,I don`t think thats the video for a beginner though,as one handed skewing could be very dangerous for a beginner,major dig ins come to mind,also, a little niggle of mine,why is it professional turners always say you need to take lessons from a professional to learn,I`ve learnt everything I know from various clubs over the years,not all of us have the money to take professional tutalage as we`re on a very tight budget mostly,sorry rant over,regards,
Eric.
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,also, a little niggle of mine,why is it professional turners always say you need to take lessons from a professional to learn,I`ve learnt everything I know from various clubs over the years,not all of us have the money to take professional tutalage as we`re on a very tight budget mostly,sorry rant over,regards,
Eric.
I think the point that is being made isn't to have tuition from a professional turner but from a turner who is both competent and can teach. I have found that turners of experience can often have habits and methods of working that are learned over many years and aren't always good ones to show a new turner (like one handed skewing) and when teaching, the old axiom of 'Don't do what I do do what I say' comes into play. I have found, when teaching, that some of the things I do such as moving the tool rest with the lathe still running, need to be dropped as it isn't a good idea yet something I do a lot. You only have to watch some of the videos on YouTube made by experienced turners to see that experience and teaching skills don't go hand in hand.
Pete
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I think that it is nice that Steve Jones made an honest comment about his tutoring skills. I can remember one of my students coming to me for lessons after having lessons with a "professional" turner. I mounted the wood on the lathe between centres and told him to rough it down, he looked at me with fright in his eyes and said "I have never done that before."Apparently this instructor never let him actually turn, he just stood and watched.!! So although turning for a living his tutoring was c**p.
I also fully agree with Steve about keeping your skew razor sharp. As far as the "Arc" on the blade is concerned, I think virtually all of my skews have a slight arc.
Regards
John BHT
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Thats a very good video for learning from thanks. It looks from the video that you have your tool rest high almost the same height as the top of the spindle, do you?
No Paul, the tool rest is only very slightly above centre, The angle of cut means the chisel cuts higher up on the spindle.
Eric, sorry I should of said that no one should attempt to turn one handed until they have mastered the tools. Like I said I'm a lousy tutor.
Also I am sorry if you felt I was pushing the professionals but as Bodrighywood said I was merely making the point you need good advice to start if you start on the wrong foot you will have an uphill struggle from day one. You don't have to pay for lessons to get advice.
A great point by Bodrightywood that experienced turners have bad habits and methods I have many. I laughed at moving the rest with the lathe running I do it all the time. :-[
One tip I use concerns the grinding of the flat Skew. I always soften the edge of the grind as shown in the picture.
This makes handling easier especially when making cuts on convex sweeps and pummel cuts. (http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd163/jonesfamilyontor/th_skew_zpscadb9f21.jpg) (http://s227.beta.photobucket.com/user/jonesfamilyontor/media/skew_zpscadb9f21.jpg.html)
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Well they do say you learn something new everyday, although I consider myself fairly skilled and experienced with the skew "softening" the edge as in the picture is a new one on me. ( I seem to remember seeing it a long time ago and thinking that the chisel had been badly sharpened). So tomorrow I am going to alter one of my skews and see how I get on with it. Funny how you turn, sharpen,work in particular ways for years and get used to doing it that way and then whoosh... a new idea(to you) appears and the proverbial light bulb is switched on.
Thanks Steve.
I have been wracking my brain to see if I have any bad habits (turning wise)I'm bound to have some but I can't think of any at the moment. (apart from the habit of not charging enough)
Regards
John BHT
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Steve, well founded comments, nice video as to how its done and such a simple steady, you've sharpened those tools back somewhat over time.
Thank you for sharing.
David.
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I have been wracking my brain to see if I have any bad habits (turning wise)I'm bound to have some but I can't think of any at the moment. (apart from the habit of not charging enough)
Regards
John BHT
Haha there's a challenge, I'll watch you next time you are demoing at the club John LOL.
Pete
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Hi Pete,
that'll be next month then :P
Regards
John BHT
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When I was first introduced to the skew (by an experienced amateur) the tool rest was set up high and I mastered it straight away. I still sometimes raise the rest depending on the job. However I still get annoyed when I experience 'spiralling'. One style of skew not mentioned is the Sorby 'spindlemaster'. One of their claims is that you'll never get a dig in. It really is a delight to use.
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Interesting
Anybody use a skewchigouge?
Paul
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So I did alter one of my skews, a 3/4" one that is ground straight across(I know technically it's not a skew then but that is one that I have)(it's a mood thing). I hardly noticed the difference but that is probably down to me. One thing I did notice though was I could turn a slightly tighter curve at the bottom of the sweep than I could normally do comfortably with that particular chisel. Although using a square/flat chisel it did feel a little bit like the oval skew on the cut.
I didn't try a pommel cut as my wood was round to begin with.
A very interesting experiment none the less, thanks Steve.
regards
John BHT
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John, good to hear you tried it out. You have found the biggest advantage of this grind that you get a tighter and easier curve on the convex sweep. I find every little advantage that saves time helps, as you will be aware it is not easy making a reasonable living from hand woodturning. The less time I spend swapping tools during an item the better. P.S. I love your idea of working in a bowler hat.
Paul, sorry but I have never tried a skewchigouge so am unable to comment.
David (woodndesign), the tools have been sharpened back a lot but not over a long time. My skew will last me only 12 months, The 1" spindle gouge you saw will last me approx 2 1/2 years. Remember I spend a minimum of 8 hours a day, 5 days a week turning and 80% of my work is between centres.
Being new to the forum, I am impressed with the work that is being done by so many to keep the art of woodturning alive, keep up the good work all those that are willing to give so much time, help and advice to others. I don't have much time to post on forums but I shall endeavor to pop in regularly.
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Thanks for your reply, Steve, it is understandable as to the wear via resharping with your long term use and after all it's the main tools you use. It's only manufactures who deem to tell a turner he needs an arsenal of tools in order to turn.
Cheers David